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9/11 truth still in a cloud of smoke?
Russia Today
Thursday, July 16, 2009
Eight years after the tragedy of 9/11, questions remain unanswered. A group of experts has convened in Washington to discuss what they think happened. Their theories are in stark contrast to the official version.
The US government said that the World Trade Center buildings collapsed as a result of fires ignited by jet fuel.
But according to members of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth these are lies. The organization is made up of experts and professionals who believe that the real story behind the destruction of the towers is still up in smoke.
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July 16th, 2009 at 5:30 am
Nobody cares in America! WE ARE GOING TO ROT IN HELL!
Steve Williams Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 7:45 am
Some of us care. And we want to know the truth, and don’t want the bogus lies we’ve been constantly told.
kebcreation Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:00 am
If they don’t tell us the truth it means they must have blood on their hands. Even a simpleton can see that. Even those who found out the truth later and withheld are guilty. If I hold back the truth everyone would be suspicious der. Got nothin to hide then cough up the truth that disproves the obvious unless it is all true then be quiet and we will believe you are hiding something big. The clues are a mile long that says our government allowed or did this and don’t think they are accountable to any of it. I seen enough to know a cover up when i see one. Land of the sleaze makes a Home for the slave.
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:20 am
how do you know you don’t know “the truth”?
Steve Williams Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Do you have Megaphone installed, Aunty?
Just wondering…
And you are, of course, always vigorously defending the lives and the rights of the palestinians, aren’t you? Because, after all, they are semites. Of course you would be! What was I thinking?
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
Aunty “read up on it”
Look out.
What issue of Spiderman was that by the way?
Joe Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
Auntie,
How do you know you do know.
The burden to prove is on the one’s that claim to know. Not on the ones that have doubt. Especially, in a situation where so many one time events happened. And those similar (not duplicate but similar) events that have do not tend to support the claims of those claiming to know what DID happen.
Simply put I don’t think you know what happened only what you were told. Just as I don’t think I know what happened only what I have been told. Difference being what I have been told does not remove my doubt or aquately explain the how or why. You are claiming that what you were told has let you with none. So again the burden of proof is on you proving your case and debunking the issues. Not the other way around. Or you can just believe what you like but know that that is all you are doing.
James M Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
we are rotting in hell lol
July 16th, 2009 at 5:56 am
“the World Trade Center buildings collapsed as a result of fires ignited by jet fuel.”
The above is absolutely and physically impossible. Thermodynamics 101.
Weakened steel does not fail explosively. It gradually loses strength along it’s stress-strain curve and then only in the areas that attain the temperatures required to fail. Steel is an excellent heat conductor and will conduct heat away from the point of application. The materials “specific heat” will show you how much it has to absorb in order to get hot. This is measured in BTU’s / mass. You can have flames as hot as you like but if there is not enough heat energy available to heat up the material you will do nothing.
An example of this is your stove at home. A gas range burns propane at 3254 F. An aluminum pan melts at 1220 F. This should make it impossible to cook on a gas range, as the pan would melt or at least soften into putty, but it does not because heating materials is complex and actually pretty difficult. Heat goes away very fast and you have to continue to pour BTUs into it above the rate that it loses the heat. This is not easy.
I just made myself a omelet, the pan miraculously didn’t melt.
There was not enough heat value in the jet fuel to come anywhere close to making the steel hot enough to fail. You will run out fuel long before that happens and the math is straight forward.
You simply take the tons of steel in question, the amount of BTU’s it would take to make the steel hot, including the concrete and the air and you just can’t do it.
In fact it is so far from possible, the fires cannot be a factor, the temperature would not have even come close to the starting of the elastic region.
Anyone who repeats the “jet fuel burns at xxx and steel loses yy% of it strength at xxx temp” is an idiot or a liar or just cannot understand the physics involved here.
That this was an “official” explanation tells me that they are lying. When a suspect lies, ask any cop what that tells him.
– as an aside, jet fuel burns at 1800 degrees all right – IN A JET ENGINE. A jet engine forces air through a compressor to get enough volume and mass of O2 to support the combustion. You cannot get the fuel to burn at anywhere near that temp in open air, there is not enough mass air flow for an optimal stoichiometric ratio.
Even if you could, which you can’t kerosene only yields 18,500 Btu/lb in perfect conditions.
In open air you’d be lucky to get 20% of that efficiency, but even at 100% efficiency there aren’t enough BTU’s to heat up the steel past about 700 degrees.
If you use a full fuel loading with zero gallons burned in the fireball and zero gallons sent down the elevator shaft to blow up the lobby you still only have enough fuel to to get the steel up to 500 degrees or so. That’s with optimal heat transfer into the steel, best case conditions of delta-T and R values, with worst case delta-t for the heat LOSS from the steel. As material heat up they radiate and conduct heat AWAY at a rate governed by the temperature and ambient factors. So the hotter the steel gets the more heat it LOSES. This is why steel mills use crucibles to hold the steel as well as the heat.
The specific heat of steel is 240 btu/ton per degree > to raise the temp from ambient to 1800 degrees would require 432,000 btu/s ton at OPTIMAL efficiency. The concrete requires even more over 800,000 btu’s.
The the air also has to heat up, and air being a poor conductor and all the humidity in the air, the specific heat of water is 8 times higher than steel and 5 times high than concrete.
It’s a rather long equation but not really complex. Bottom line, not enough BTU to make the steel hot enough to fail. Can’t be done. Something else brought the buildings down. If they didn’t fall immediately after the impacts there is now way the fires could have triggered it as the tensile and compressive strength of the steel did not change at all ( reference the stress-strain diagram for structural steel) after the fires did their work. It never exceeded it’s maximum working stress, if it did, the top would have fallen over towards the point of maximum damage. It would have done this slowly as the stress progressed along to top of the curve to the point of maximum or ultimate strength. The metal would be very deformed at this point.
From the the origin to the point called proportional limit, the stress-strain curve is a straight line. This is called Hooke’s Law that within the proportional limit, the stress is directly proportional to strain up to the elastic limit. That is the limit beyond which the material will no longer go back to its original shape when the load is removed, or it is the maximum stress that may be developed such that there is no permanent or residual deformation when the load is entirely removed.
The structural damage by the impact either failed the structure right away or the it brought it past the elastic limit. If it reached a certain point – the curve here is actually longer that the portion from 0-the EL, the steel will start to deform plastically, that is bend like taffy. There was zero evidence of this.
The diagram for the temperatures tells us that the steel would have to attain a consistent temperature across the entire beam of way over 1500-1800 degrees, a point stress is not enough to induce failure, and there is no way to a localized temperature peak this high without the heat conducting to the rest of the beam. This is shown by the transfer equation is governed by the composition and shape of the beam, Shape is vital in that an I-beam or box had a high surface area to volume ratio, This means heat loss radiated away form the source of the heat is going to be very high, also humidity in the air will absorb the heat faster as water can take a lot of heat before raising it’s temperature so initial heat transfer AWAY form the steel will be even higher.
If as they will say that the fireproofing was all blown away by the impact makes it even harder, as the steel can radiate more heat if it is uncovered.
We can also calculate the rate of heat transfer INTO the steel beams. It is a function of the differential temperature, the specific heat of the steel, the surface area of the expose material and the R value of the air or any remaining building materials between the flame and the steel, as well as the airflow ( mass flow rate of hot air).
Al these factors except R can be definitively identified. using the maximum value for R, you’d run out of fuel ( assuming 100% fuel loading on the plane with zero for elevator shaft and fireball) before you got a 700 degree T-rise anywhere.
But the Kean Commission weenies also state that vast amounts of fuel poured down the elevator shafts to account for the damage to the ground floor. So where that that leave us?
You’d be lucky to be able to do a marshmallow roast with what was left after the fireball anyway.
It doesn’t work and there is no way to make it work. the official story is a sham and any one who believes it is an ignorant fool.
bob Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 8:24 am
A W E S O M E !!!!!!
Hope you don’t mind, I’m emailing your comments to friends who still don’t believe.
fastmarine Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
very well put. because of the “official” myth perpetrated by the govt, I thought the firefighters were “playing cowboy” trying to fight the fire! I would imagine one or two of the firefighters knew something about engineering or building construction. The buildings could not, would not, and DID NOT collapse from jet fuel!!!! those firefighters had EVERY reason to believe that they could and would have put out fires FROM JET FUEL!!! and thats what they were doing when pre-placed demolition charges dropped the steel frame constuction TO THE BEDROCK FOUNDATION. we must speak the TRUTH for all who have been silenced. peace
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
dumbf---- NOWHERE does it say the towers fell from jet fuel fires.
The fires were STARTED by the fuel AND WERE sufficient to weaken the severely damaged steel collumns.
Thats why they encase steel framed buildings in concrete. FOR FIRE PROTECTION!!!!!
Bill Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
The fires could not have weakened the undamaged steel columns in the 80-90% of the building where the planes did not hit however.
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 8:49 am
Hey recon idiot
YOU yourself have used the “jet fuel” excuse so many times I can’t count them.
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:25 am
rubbish.
Nobody claims “fires from jetfuel” brought down the towers. There was a highspeed planecrash, explosions, then a fire………then they collapsed.
YOu do know that the energy imparted by a heavy fuelled, fast moving jet plane of some 00s of tons, is far greater than anything a few explosives could impart?
Therefore – either a controlled demolition required enormous amounts of explosives, carefully placed beforehand, and set-off exactly right, starting with the impact zone (how did they know where it’s be exactly?) – or – the planes did it.
If you argue that plane crash, explosions and fire couldn’t damage WTC sufficiently for them to collapse, then you must be arguing that there was so much explosive within the WTC, it dwarfed the equivalent energy of plane crash, explosions, and fires……..
How did anyone put all that explosive there? it’s ridiculous.
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Actually EVERYONE claims jet fuel brought the towers down including your little brownnose buddy recon[not]marine and he has done “extensive research” by his own admission.
The 1000′C means nothing and only affects the RATE of heat transfer not the amount of heat available for transfer. Make it 2000 degrees if you like, it changes nothing. Office fires do not collapse buildings. If the impact did not fail or begin failure of the buildings right away then the remaining steel was within the limits of it SS curve and would not fail. Read about SS curves and how structural steel members are designed for some background.
The planes did it huh? When trying to explain why the plane that hit the pebnatgon did so little damage the Air Farce published a report showing that in their tests the plane itself absorbs much of the collision energy, that’s is why there was no large pieces debris . You can see pictures ( look for them yourself for an interesting exercise – if you can’t find them let me know I’ll link it for you) that shows a test crash where the plane shredded itself imparting little damage to the structure it hit.
Anyway not that relevant, the bottom line is the steel would fail quickly or not at all and the fires had insufficient energy value to heat up the remaining steel. You are fixated on temperature – temperature is not heat. To different materials at the same temperature does not equate into the same amount of heat energy.
They taught this stuff in high school physics in the 60’s, too bad government education has brought this generation so far down so fast they can’t understand the basic concepts of physical science.
>>>>”If you argue that plane crash, explosions and fire couldn’t damage WTC sufficiently for them to collapse, then you must be arguing that there was so much explosive within the WTC, it dwarfed the equivalent energy of plane crash, explosions, and fires……”"”
This argument is so ignorant it doesn’t really even merit a response. Go read up on building demolition and theory of how it is accomplished.
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
LOL. I have read up on it……….and i totally disagree with you. as do all the experts.
but don’t let them contradict you, huh? you have it all worked out on your own? nevermind what anyone else says?
But anyway – if you don’t believe plane crashes, explosions and fires did it – what did? YOu have to come up with a more viable thesis – and there’s none. so……we’re left with the most obvious.
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
I’ll ask you the same question I always ask but never seem to get answer to: what experts? I mean of course besides James Miegs we all know he the expert of experts.
but I don’t see you trying to refute anything just appealing to authority, unnamed authorities even. Same as always.
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Oh you “read up on it” I hope you didn’t strain your brain with all that reading.
What exactly did you read?
Try “Mechanical Metallurgy” by George E. Dieter. Careful, there’s a lot of big words and math in it, wouldn’t want you to have a brain strain. Maybe you can get little Jimmy Meigs [expert] to read it to you.
B Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
That still would not explain WTC 7 that was not even hit by a plane.Obviously no claim of jet fuel there ,there never has been a reasonable explanation for it falling exactly like a building implosion.
I have little understanding of thermodynamics but the government explanation makes no sense and you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see through the official explanation.
From what I understand no building of similar structure has ever collapsed due to fire or plane impact before or since yet on that day three of them collapsed in identical fashion to a planned demolition.Instead of an investigation the remains of the building are quickly sent off to scrap metal vendors in China and India.
There are so many holes in the story on so many different levels really there can be only one conclusion.
MagnusXO Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
The “Energy” of the planes hitting the Towers didn’t sit there, latent, for 45 minutes, and then cause a collapse, so stop using that comparison. That’s just B.S. Also, it’s been proven that the towers were laced with nano-thermite, proven beyond any doubt. To think that the explosives were placed there is less a strenuous argument than the one your using to twist your brain around to believe the planes brought them both down, even though the planes didn’t even hit the buildings in the same way as one another. (but they both collapsed the same way).
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
silly – it has *not* been proven the towers were “laced” with “nanothermite”. Not at all. It says a lot that you need to make such a claim.
George [Costanza] Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
One plane hit the core ‘broadside’ WTC1 [east-west core orientation], and the other clipped [barely] the core. WTC2 [north-south orientation]
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html
The infrared photographs kind of disagree with your disagreement.
MagnusXO Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 7:44 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_tf25lx_3o
This is the You Tube interview, conducted in April 2009 right after the Nano-Thermite was confirmed. I’m not the one making the claim, these Scientists are. I’m just repeating what they said.
Now I’m sure you will attack their credibility, right? What else can you do?
brad Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
holy s--- you’re an idiot. I am pointing and laughing at your idiocy.
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Who are you laughing at?
. Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Such a HUGE surprise that you of all people would buy into the absurd official story hook line and sinker. I mean, actually it isnt. Pathetic c---.
Bill Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Lets find out how they got there. When law enforcement finds a body with 3 gunshot wounds to the head do they wait until they figure out how this could have happened before investigating or do they investigate to figure out how it happened. I suppose in certain cases they are told NOT to investigate as apparently was the case here…
Miguel Grande Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 3:53 am
Aunty wrote, “How did anyone put all that explosive there? it’s ridiculous.”
IN 2000, the demolitions crew from Turner Construction set charges, prewired and harnessed the explosives to implode the Seattle Kingdome. They were successful. Their next job was the World Trade Centers. The were allowed access to the main core columns, purportedly to examine and repair the fire proofing on the columns. They were given an entire floor in each building to store tools and materials. No one was allowed access to these floors without top level security clearance. They were allowed to work around the clock, 7 days a week with total access. After the demolition, they were allowed 100% access through the rubble to assist in hauling off the evidence. When questioned about their contracts and work they couldn’t answer anything because all their records were lost on 9/11. Whenever NIST needed corroborating reports for their theory, Turner Const. was able to produce them.
rik thomas Reply:
July 19th, 2009 at 9:22 am
add infamous “controlled demolition” corporation hired for logistics in covering up the crime by fema. the same friendly assholes that imploded the oklahoma city building.
folks, like i say, i never go on this site without being inflamed by being reminded of the truth.
rik thomas Reply:
July 19th, 2009 at 9:19 am
under the towers, recorded by noaa thermal photographs and at least ten video records, were large – very large- pools of molten steel. this was also recorded at wtc7. as has been pointed out, you can’t melt steel with jet fuel (which has the same heat value as kerosene) or carpets or office furniture (which burn at the same temperatures -in IDEAL conditions- as jet fuel).
).
there is no explanation put forth for the molten metal -officially. the 911 comminssion report ignores the molten metal as if it didn’t exist (it also pretends wtc7 didn’t exist
now we have a good explanation: thermit, thermate and NANO-THERMITE. we have all the evidence of the materials and their effects -spheroidal metal particles in the dust, appendix c of fema report (”extremely unusual metal degradation and melting”) and all the maybe 20 videos of first responders hearing and experiencing multiple explostions throughout the entire process leading up to the collapses.
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:33 am
from NIST: “temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius”
Because of multi-floor fires *ignited* by jet fuel. Nothing to do with how hot jet fuel burns – it burns hot enough enough to start fires, and enough to contribute some heat to those fires.
“There was not enough heat value in the jet fuel to come anywhere close to making the steel hot enough to fail. You will run out fuel long before that happens and the math is straight forward.”
But that is irrelevant. NIST nor anyone else claims the jetfuel alone softened the steel. Office fires often reach 1000C+ – more than hot enough to “weaken” steel – especially in a steel-frame building which has had its structural integrity severely compromised by having a heavy, speeding, jet plane fly into it. LOL. Nothing to do with “just” jetfuel.
kevin Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:54 am
You forget that the buildings were designed to withstand the impact of the largest jet liner that was in service at the time – which actually would impart greater energy than the ones that hit the buildings. The framework was designed to route stresses around just such damage. Also, why did the internal frame fail in the same way at the same time as the external frame? The outside of the buildings should have peeled away at best, leaving the internal column. And what about building 7? No fire, no collision, but collapsed in exactly the same way… rubbish? No, something more was at work. I know you don’t want to believe a government could do what happened on 9/11, neither did I, but there are too many contradictions. Perhaps you’re not ready to be awakened from your slumber, nonetheless the matrix has you. I hope you awaken soon.
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
the towers each survived a direct hit – as the architects claimed they would.
the frraemwork was *not* designed to route stresses from a plane collison: how could it? the external frame was thin segments of steel…….how is that going to “route” anything like the forces of a jet plane? it can’t – it will just be destroyed – as it was.
And there *was* fire in 7, and it was hit by debris.
I don’t trust governments at all……….but the facts are (at least as I see them) there’s no dispute over what brought the towers down – crash, explosions, fire, collapse.
George [Costanza] Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
The stresses of a once a century hurricane would exceed the peak loading of the impact of the airplane.
The exterior ‘framework’ WOULD reroute the loads, that is why they were staggered vertically.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wt.....meter.html
The velocity vector of the debris hitting WTC 7 was primarily downward.
What kind of damage did the core of WTC 7 as a result of the demolition of the twin towers? None.
. Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
Aunty, yes you do, you have blind gullible trust. Accept it tool.
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 6:40 am
The buildings were NOT designed to take airliner impacts.
The only source of this is an engineer saying it.
They did ZERO testing for this situation.
The Real reconmarine Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 10:36 am
That engineer is clearly a part of the evil 9/11 truther plot. Hes full of s--- since I dont agree with him. NIST engineers on the other hand would never lie.
rik thomas Reply:
July 19th, 2009 at 9:30 am
these assholes need to kill themselves. it’s way too late to be nursemaiding these jerks.
we have a little problem in this country. we know it.
as far as the towers: not only was the heat energy practically zero in relation to steel…
all the interior and exterior columns ESSENTIALLY would have to fail at the same time for the building not to tip over at the top.
the path of most resistance morons is straight down, conservation of momentum means the top of the building tiltls and falls. the only way to go straight down is to remove the resistance of the steel UNDER the top. think about it jerkoffs… the TOP of the building was supported by the BOTTOM of the building. now cut the connection….
nothing has changed in the bottom of the building.
but now it “fall down and go boom?”
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
from a popular “debunking” site:
“Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F, and at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent.”
if the towers were severely compromised there would been visual evidence of it, sagging or other movement of the top floors.
Hint; Aluminum is softer than steel. It will yield and absorb the crash energy way before 4-6″ thick steel box columns ever would. The Air Forces test crashes show planes being shredded to confetti in impact. Look at them yourself if you dare.
You folks need to get your stories straight, first it was the jet fuel, the its wasn’t next it was the planes, now it was all due to burning carpet, what’s next I wonder.
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
The fires reached 1000C+ = easily enough to weaken steel.
You don’t think the buildings showed any sign of structural damage after the planes hit them? Are you blind?
RE as in retard CON as in shill Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
If the fires were 1000 deg C (over 1800 degF) Then why were live people seen waving from the smoldering hole just minutes after the impact? They would have been fried in seconds at even a fraction of that temperature. And even if the fireball momentarily reached 1000C, that does not mean the entire steel structure attained that temperature. You do understand that right?
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
As I suspected, you are ignorant of basic science. 1000 degrees C, why not make it 2000 degrees C? It makes no difference to the end result.
If as you say the “jet fuel” only ignited the fire then we can collapse buildings with a box of kitchen matches, right? Just light the carpets on fire and stand back.
God you weenies will believe anything hairbrained story as long as the Bush administration tells it.
Lame, lame lame, you should be embarrassed, but then like your “experts” you are anonymous so you can be as ignorant as you like.
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
To weaken steel the STEEL has to be 1000 c not the fires.
Good grief it ’s like trying to explain sex to a 12 year old
George [Costanza] Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
The impact of the airplanes was primarily ‘cosmetic’
The south wall of the WTC2 was structurally sound.
The core of WTC2 was structurally sound. The impact was offset from the centerline, and was not normal to the face. What luck that the core [rectangular] was primarily N-S in WTC2-south
The impact of WTC1-north was also ‘cosmetic’. The north face had accommodated the new loading pathways. The E-W core had contained the airplane, and the corners of the core were undamaged. Luckily the hat truss helped to redistribute the loads, but the WTC1 had much less weight above the impact hole than WTC2.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/hattruss.html
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
THERE is picture and video evidence of it LRRP
Have you not been paying attention?
The Real reconmarine Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 10:35 am
there is a picture, but no link from me. Just trust me. Like I trust NIST. OR the CIA. Or the media.
MagnusXO Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
The fires never reached 1000 degrees Celcius, as jet fuel simply doesn’t burn that hot, as it’s primary ingredient is Kerosene. The strikes on the buildings we’re not uniform, nor were the fires, yet the collapses were symmetrical. The Piledriver itself, (top 30 floors) turned to dust and therefore could not have provided any force to drive down the building cores Most of the fuel burned on impact, as evidenced by people seen standing in the holes looking out the sides of the buildings.
And we haven’t even brought up building 7!
The Real reconmarine Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 4:50 am
NIST-government paid hacks that number about 50. AE911truth-not paid by the government and at 700 members and groing. BLind trust in government. How cute Aunty. naive c---.
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 6:41 am
Another fan pretending to be me with fake facts in attempt to discredit me.
There were 125 INDEPENDENT experts and 85 from NIST,
The Real reconmarine Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Correction, and im saying this with ZERO links or proof, so just take my word for it
NIST had 85 and the other 125(I call them independent but still got money from the gov. Again, no link for you, just trust me). AE911truth has 700 plus. I still dont care, gov hacks or not, they say what I want to be true.
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Actually, the firs STARTED by the jet fuel were sufficient to cause collapse in both towers.
That’s why they put fireproofing on the steel (it was mostly knocked off upon impact)
Thats why the laws say all steel framed buildings need to have their steel encased in concrete. (for fire protection) The Towers were not encased in concrete, just like the top 11 floors of the windsor tower, that steel framed building that was on fire and partially collapsed. (The top 11 floors of course)
But besides all of that, Im sure you are way smarter then the worlds leading experts on this subject…….right lrrps?
The Real Don Steele Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 12:27 am
“Actually, the firs STARTED by the jet fuel were sufficient to cause collapse in both towers.”
And how do you know this? Because NIST says so? And what did NIST do? Oh, they made a computer model. Don’t you understand that they could yank on the parameters of that model and make it do whatever they want it to? In order to have any confidence in a computer model, you have to benchmark it against actual physical reality or at least laboratory data. Couldn’t be done in this case. Do you know why? Because it’s NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE OR SINCE.
Even severe fires in other skyscrapers which, like the WTC Towers, were 100% steel-framed, HAVE NOT PRODUCED EVEN PARTIAL COLLAPSES. The Windsor building was an inferior design, an even though the fire raged uncontrolled for 20 hours or so, engulfing the entire top half of the building and reaching as low as the 4th floor, ONLY A GRADUAL AND PARTIAL COLLAPSE RESULTED. It did not suddenly and catastrophically fail and fall to the earth at near freefall speed as did the WTC towers. And the towers fell after only about AN HOUR and a FAR LESS EXTENSIVE FIRE.
In summary, you compare apples to oranges AND your own comparison weakens rather than reinforces your position. Please make a note of it.
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 6:43 am
don steele- You do know steel framed buildings have collapsed from fire alone right?
The top 11 floors of the windsor tower collapsed. The top 11 floors steel was not encased in concrete just like the towers wernt.
This is one reason that is a building code law in most of the world
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 7:35 am
I don’t believe people, I believe data and evidence. People have motives and agendas and are easily manipulated. I only trust in data and evidence. Your so-called experts are only offering opinions, opinions paid for by the government that is paying them to exonerate themselves. Is it any wonder they refuse to bite the hand that feeds them?
You entire argument is a logical fallacy known as “appeal to authority”.
Argument from authority or appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, where it is argued that a statement is correct because the statement is made by a person or source that is commonly regarded as authoritative. The most general structure of this argument is:
Source A says that p.
Source A is authoritative.
Therefore, p is true.
This is a fallacy because the truth or falsity of the claim is not necessarily related to the personal qualities of the claimant, and because the premises can be true, and the conclusion false (an authoritative claim can turn out to be false). It is also known as argumentum ad verecundiam (Latin: argument to respect) or ipse dixit (Latin: he himself said it).
Thanks to wikipedia for that explanation.
The next fallacy you engage is continuously and seem to rely on and make up the substantial part of your so-called arguments is the “ad hominum” attack.
An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: “argument to the man”, “argument against the man”) consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.
The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.
From what I read, these two arguments make up the bulk if not all of your debating points.
MagnusXO Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 10:54 am
The Piledriver turned to dust. What then was causing the collapse where there was no fire?
Stick the needle in your eye Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Thank you for your post. You conveyed the facts in terms even a scientifically disinclined moron like myself can understand.
Bravo!
prutt Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:44 pm
I was just thinking while reading this how Reconmarine will be all over this excellent post with his hopeless debunking and sure enough there he or it is!!! Hey recon why havent I heard your voice on the alex show he always puts those in disagreement in front of others.
What was that?……..shy? chicken? or maybe in the gov contract your not allowed too?
Or perhaps deep down you know you’ll be owned! yaaaaaaa now thats the ticket.
Hey does anyone know if this Recon-ditioned Loser gets days off?
The Real reconmarine Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 4:51 am
Im a giant pussy. I will only “debate” people on my internet radio show which gets a grand total of 15 listeners.
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 6:44 am
another fan pretending to be me the mods are afraid to call out.
The Real reconmarine Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Waaah. Mods. Stop these imposters. Waaah.
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 11:36 am
16, including his mother or then again maybe not.
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 8:52 am
He will think he’s all over it but watch, he will not address a single point, he will yap about his “experts”
Tom Reply:
July 18th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
The videos shown on the news clearly showed explosions at every floor when they imploded the building. Plus the artificially created thermite. Plus the lack of all the people that would have been in the building during business hours on a weekday! Only about 3000 “little” people were pulled from the wreckage, which was only done to get at the gold underneath the building.
July 16th, 2009 at 6:05 am
Well, I don’t understand physics that well, which is why I majored in history!, but that explanation makes more sense than the government’s. I tend to look at things differently, and when we have three skyscrapers collapsing in the same day, in almost the same manner, and the government tells us that they came down because of fire and the impact of the planes, while the buildings were designed for multiple plane strikes and no skyscraper has ever collapsed from fire alone, and silvers--- is on record of having said he was going to pull it, then I suspect a few flaws in the government’s findings. Even with no knowledge of physics, which describes me fairly well, nothing in the government’s story adds up. Thanks, that was actually interesting to a nerd like me.
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Well aunty and recon are ignorant of the basic concepts of physical science.
Hey, I just did the impossible, I made a quesadilla in an aluminum pan on my gas cooktop. LP burns at 3500 degrees and aluminum melts at 1220 degrees. Yet I was able to make my quesadilla with jalapenos with out melting my pan, how about that!
I was expecting to to soften and to fall though the cooktop, counter, cabinet and concrete slab floor leaving my cabinetwork a pile of pulverized rubble!
Will wonder never cease. What will the “experts” say about that? Quick call Jim Meigs and little baby Chertoff.
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Your analogy is truly telling if why you think the way you do….
Carry on LRRP
The Real Don Steele Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 12:31 am
He’s trying to gear it down to something you can understand. Maybe he should try grunts and groans next time.
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 8:55 am
maybe this will help:
duh, uhh da fires get hot, but da metal don’t get so hot cuz dey start off cold and theres a whole frikking buncha steel and ya gotta get it all hot first before anything happens and the steel not in the fires is gettin cold cuz the heat flows from hot to cold and ya cant make it al so hot cuz you run out of gas like yer car
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
oh yeah uhhh, duh and da steel have to get hot, like really, really hot you know like your frying pan.
I’m sure glad that my gas cook top used LP and not kerosene other wise the while thing would collapse on itself the first time I tried to cook anything.
Doe the point get into your thick concrete skulls yet.
The fires can be any temperature pick one, it’s fine by me, why call it 4000 degrees/ The problem is not made any better YOU HAVE TO GET THE STEEL HOT
Let me say it again in case your head is far enough up your ass to block your ears.
THE STEEL HAS TO GET HO.T not only the steel but the air and the concrete and whatever else is in the building. You also need LOTS and LOTS of air
Put a candle in a glass jar and punch a small hole in the top, no air = no heat transfer
Hot fires do not fail buildings hot steel might but you can’t get the steel hot.
Temperature is not heat, repeat after me
temperature is not heat
one more time
temperature is not heat.
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 7:36 am
Why didn’t the pan melt? Jim Meigs[expert] says……
July 16th, 2009 at 6:46 am
A drug addict as Secretary of State. has anyone looked into the pain prescriptions that Hillary is taking for broken bones and pain management.
After all we have seen photos of her drinking whiskey on her campaign plane. We know she drinks hard liquor and has emotional issues. The crying in New Hampshire, the loose grasp of reality “Snipers fire and video” for example.
It not too much of a stretch to realise that she could be mixing pills and booze.
What if she reports back to president Obama or insults a world leader ,while smashed on drugs and alcohol ?
What disastrous results could that have on this nation ?
Mort Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
I doubt if she gets as fcuked up as W Bush (coke) or his stone cold killer wife ever did.
Getting wasted on pills booze and dope is normal for NWO scum whether they are Democrats or Republicans. Some of them must feel guilty from time to time.
The 911 crimes would surely cause them to feel that way.
rik thomas Reply:
July 19th, 2009 at 9:39 am
i saw hilary in person and i can guarantee she drinks a quart of whiskey and day and has anal lesbian sex with virgins which she kills during orgasm.
i kid you not. here in ny state, we knew she was the most duplicitious and evil piece of dog meat since dick cheney and richard milhouse nixon.
why are people so evil as to allow these droids to run their government?
July 16th, 2009 at 8:13 am
It’s very sad that we must turn to Russia Today for the truth.
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:35 am
it is sad that you do it. what are you thinking of?
Mike Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
Proof of explosives.http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM
July 16th, 2009 at 8:17 am
Google “les jamieson PEDOPHILE”
not that les is a child pedophile just cause he hangs with them
Google: louie bee/ “luke rudkowski steal cash from donations”
Google: luke and less working together again ” SLC 911 festivities
ADL SHILL^^^^^^^^^^ Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 8:31 am
Google-”the Franklin cover-up”. do those scumbags represent all republicans? By your first grader logic, yes, yes they do.
July 16th, 2009 at 8:17 am
Just like the USS Liberty they are all cover up kings. They wanted a WAR and the profits
and the DEBT. They have been doing for 400 years. It started with the Rothschilds in Europe
its a formula.
July 16th, 2009 at 8:18 am
Youtube search ” les jamieson pedophile”
Hell of a truth movement
ADL SHILL^^^^^^^^^^ Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 8:28 am
And guess what? Most actual 9/11 activists dont like him anyway, hes too LIHOP. BUt your smearing is typical of a true shill.
July 16th, 2009 at 8:20 am
Now will have the FLU racket and all the Know it alls. Like the Know it alls in Vietnam and
Pre 9/11. We had tons of know it alss pre 9/11. Talking Big Talk making Big Money.
July 16th, 2009 at 8:21 am
TRUTH is RISING!!!!
July 16th, 2009 at 8:23 am
All the Fear Mongering with the Vietnam War. “they” the war profit crowd sold everyone
that war too all the Think Tanks and the Money Debt makers. same crowd
July 16th, 2009 at 8:24 am
That girl is my favorite journalist out there–she covers all the real issues for Russia Today!
July 16th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel) Says:
July 5th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
Comment from you tube video of Evolution of 9/11 Truth at St Mark’s posted by: Paula Gloria
“This rare gem was passed to Paula Gloria by Joe Friendly and upon viewing got her interested in understanding not why Nico Haupt was a lunatic but what incredibly deep unmet need was at the basis of the tragic expressions that turned purportedly pro-investigation people to march lock-step along a predetermined understanding of what happened technically to bring down the towers during 9/11. A few weeks after this turbulent meeting Dan Wallace died (or was killed) and “We Are Change” initiated when Luke and Les Jamieson, the leader of 9/11 “Truth” parted ways. The newly formed “We Are Change” never met at St Marks and started to have a physical meeting space at Warren 12 while Les Jamison, under the watchful eye of Frank Morales the then Reverend of St Marks, remained at St. Marks initially organizing and raising money. They illegally indicated people could have a tax write-off for donations to a political cause putting St Mark’s 501c3 at legal risk when raising money for the 9/11 Ballot initiative designed by Carl Person. This initiative had the all important Office of City Attorney General included so that the required funding plan could be included; without it it would never fly. Whoever wanted a real investigation to NOT happen realized the danger that Office of City Attorney General presented for not only 911 Truth but many other urgent wrongs, including our financial crisis. Thus a certain Dr Pepper of shady background was put on the project to destroy it. This was done by seducing Frank Morales and Les Jamieson the leader of 9/11 “Truth” with money IF the critical office of City Attorney General was removed from the ballot initiative (rendering it impossible to pass through the legal requirements). It would never have a chance. This was done against the wishes of the steering committee, proving yet again that all 9/11 truth at St Marks is done only by Les Jamieson and Frank Morales who despite being “retired” as Reverend still seems to be at St Marks running 9/11 meetings behind the scenes with a cadre of supporters. It is worthy of note that Dr Pepper was accused of pedophilia in the Northeast (can someone out there give me more details?) and such accusations are supported by material in his own book “The Self Motivated Child”, showing he was perfect for a job that gives earnest and innocent truth seekers an eternally limited form of 9/11 truth. Why do such practices still continue with questionable responsibility at St Marks under the hand of Frank Morales and Les Jamieson ensuring that real truth and the ensuing freedom that comes about in truth’s presence never develops?
What is happening to 9/11 “Truth” at St Marks today?”
Comment from Paula Gloria on “evolution at st marks”
July 16th, 2009 at 8:27 am
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel) Says:
July 3rd, 2009 at 9:51 pm
This is not the Alex Jones, We Are Change, Louder Then Words, (or Ron Paul) movement..this movement is about 9/11, and getting down to what really happened. And enough is enough. This weekend and on was a total disgrace, hypocricy, and the elitist behavior that has been brewing has proved destructive here in Nyc. I hope somehow those of you in other places have made up for this, but there is no doubt this was the “center stage” because of the ceremonies.
Having dealt with CHANGE personally, and their heirarchy, i’m not surprised in the least by their behavior. Jones i was at least hoping for better from, but i knew anything could happen, and Louder Then Words demonstrated what they were about when they banned people from their forums, who they got research for their movies from. As well as their childish behavior that followed. Yet here we were, ending the 6th anniversary with these very individuals, from Luke Rudkowski to Dylan Avery, and beyond, leading the way under who they called “the Grand Infowarrior”, Alex Jones. Are we trying to be freemasons? I thought we knew better then to make people into icons. I thought we knew better then to follow anyone but ourselves. People are human, and sometimes worse.
Change and Les Jameisons’ ny911truth spent the last year dividing up Nyc, they both then unleashed organizations with narrow-agenda’s..the very principle most all in the movement(including those very previously mentioned individuals) claimed to be against. No politics, no parties..just investigation and truth. But long behold we have left groups, right groups, you name it…and as groups that ate up real sincere and diverse organizations that they were attached to previously and could have been. Slick promotion and a connection with Alex Jones is something that Jameison and crew did not have, and so it was Change that got the glammer image. This probably has alot of you who are fans saying “wtf is he talking about?”. Well give me a fair chance.
Let me take you back only to Sunday. I visited Webster Hall in Manhattan, got a look at how the event was going. Quickly i found the scene alarming. Looking like Hollywood, chosen son after chosen son of the movement came through to a welcome wagon, and everyone else had to go through a barrage of security. As if it wasn’t disturbing enough, half the security was Change’s own security! It was then that i found out that they had filled the PUBLIC protest on Saturday night, with security as well(available in pictures off their site, some of which i saved). Security coordinating with the cops to, as Nate of Change said, “Keep the people in order.” Are you serious? Well i gave him my words for that, and rightfully so. Whether it’s gone to their heads or worse, it’s safe to say the problem is directly among us, as much as it is around us. We have hit the “controlled” stage, for certain. Most of the people who go out to Change events are sincere people, i want to make that clear. But the problem that they have had sinse the beginning is that they are a group based around heirarchy, lingering on icon cultship. Of course Mr. Rudkowski would be quick to exclaim, “there are no rules, so how could anyone rule”. But if there are no rules, how could you have security. Who had the head pieces, Mr. Rudkowski(and friends)? Enough said. Caught in a lie there, sir. Not the first time. We have a huge and perhaps now fatal problem.
Surely enough, along came the Tuesday event. The one that was supposed to “make history”. Before i get to this..let me discuss some important issues:
If you have seen the promo’s by We Are Change, or have seen the webpage for the 6th anniverary events, themselves, you would find it quite interesting. The site opens up with, as a couple people put it, monster truck rally type announcing. The videos bring mtv like flashwork and icons…yes, there will be JACK BLOOD, LOUDER THEN WORDS(loose change), ALEX JONES, WE ARE CHANGE(five heirarchy only shown, out of the many people in the group. Luke front and center.), ect. Lack of focus on the truth, lack of focus on showing the solemnity of the time, drawing people with facts-nothing like that-just a vma award type of promotion. How innappropriate and narrowly focused.
There is then the problem, and Change admits this about themselves, that the keynote 9/11 event of the year(and perhaps the most important yet..well undoubtably) was seized by the hands of a group that is hardly a truth and justice for 9/11-focused group. Their events and coverage also largely focus on the tax activist Brown family, the income tax itself, the belief that global warming isn’t manmade, and of course the campaign of Ron Paul..who has come to say on camera “I don’t believe 9/11 was a government job.” We have quite a hypocricy here on the last one. And what a good job confusing someone just learning about the truth behind 9/11, when you hand them a dvd and a ron paul sticker. Wait till they hear him talk about the 9/11 commission and how great it is, at a debate! Or when they find a clip of him denying the truth about 9/11. Horrible move. And this has undoubtably been a big reason why the movement appears to have seen a near halt in growth the last few months, after all the growth these past couple years. Not that Change are the only ones who have partaken in that. This is a terrible mistake. But point being, a group that has it’s own specific agenda-which will be both too much for some, and sometimes not agreed with by many others in the movement(including people new to it)-should not be running an unowned event that is focused specifically on the truth behind 9/11.
And this is where todays event comes in. And where Alex Jones comes in.
He knows how big an icon he is. Sadly it’s true. My feelings on Jones before this have always been, “He’s human, seems to do some good, but he’s human.” Those thoughts and feelings on him and his crew have now spiraled quickly after watching this all go on. From not only failing to warn away the Change security, but rather having quite a bit of it surround him; to not rejecting being made a rock star..or should i say pope..or grand freemason..or whatever; to essentially giving Change and Loose Change miracle grow; to failing today to even bother to help ignite the kind of post-ceremony action at the World Trade Grounds that we had last year and gained the attention of many; he has a big hand in this. Yes he has. There was no major speakout following the ceremony at the grounds, there was not a whole lot of disbursing amidst the crowd as the time neared, either. Just waiting..and waiting..and then leaving, off to other places with a fraction of the onlookers. There was a short spout of pouring rain(20 minutes tops), but everyone was still there when it was done, and nothing happened. So much for promises.
These 5 days of events in Nyc were all about promotion of self. From start to finish. It was never about the families, victims, ect. Not to the “leaders”. Someone can say what they want about the money donated to the first responders(if they get it all, where’s the fund?), but even that was just a way for the “big names” to propagate themselves as kings and queens of the phrase they’ve dirtied,”9/11 truth”. End Game and Loose Change Final cut got major promotion for their videos which will cash out big time. These three entities are going to attempt to come out of this, more then ever as the coup de grace, and as Change put it, “the only real truth group.” It’s not truth if you don’t live up to it.
Sorry to say. I’m very angry, dissapointed, disgusted, and doubtful about our changes. Many of us sacrificed way too much, times we can never have back, swallowed personal pains just to take part, you name it, and this is what it has come to. My deepest apologies go out to all those living and dead victims, because of what happened. You deserved alot better..even if you don’t know it yet. As a man once said(before it got adopted by Keith Oberman), Goodnight and goodluck. God certainly knows it’s going to be needed.
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:38 am
took you awhile to notice all that? it had to be right in your face for you to see it? oh well.
MagnusXO Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
f--- you Aunty Semite.
And f--- “We Are Change”. I never considered myself represented by them. They are shameless self-promoters, and so is Alex! But these guys don’t write the news, they just provide a forum for us to find it easier. It’s up to individuals to quit grasping at celebrity at every opportunity.
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
f--- you too? lol. wtf was that for?
911 Troof is a bunch of shysters and misfits whom can’t think there way out of a paper bag. That much is obvious?
July 16th, 2009 at 8:28 am
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel) Says:
July 3rd, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel)
June 30, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Note: forwarded message attached. Dec. 8, 2006
Knowing how sensitive for example the generally absent “9/11 Truth” activist Joe Carranza is about spelling, I want to correct a typo in my attached e-mail exposing Les Jamieson for the total fraud that he is. In the last paragraph the word “brownshorts”, referring to Geoffrey Blank’s armed thugs, should read “brownshirts.” Indeed, if the wacko, photographed “squat- ter” Carl Rosenstein had worn brown shorts, his club would have been visible.
As far as reports of Frank Morales’ involvement in hard drug use and trafficking are con- cerned, I would think, since Jamieson presumably knows nothing about this matter (unless he is also involved) that, if only to protect himself legally, he follow the advice that he some- times whispers to me and to keep his mouth shut. Reports of drug use and trafficking involv- ing St. Mark’s-in-the-Bowery Assistant Pastor Morales should be investgated by the Episco- pal Church and by law enforcement. It’s bad enough that, in inviting Tarpley to speak, “9/11 Truth” was host to man associated with a convicted felon like Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.
Tom Weiss – Member, St. Mark’s in-the-Bowery Church.
ADL SHILL^^^^^^^^^^ Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 8:38 am
There is a lot of disinformation when it comes to 9/11 truth. Obviously its a very dangerous subject that threatens powerful interests. BUt what you’re doing is so obvious, im surprised you think you can get away with it. “9/11 truth” is a pretty catch all term, which is obviously your purpose, but in the context you are using it its like saying all priests are pedophiles because some were caught. Or saying all christians are murderers because one just killed an abortion doctor. Or saying all arabs are terrorists because some were in the past(though obviously not on 9/11). Im guessing you agree with that last one based on your obvious agenda though. Point is, you are waaaaaay too obvious. Just like with the anti-Fed movement, or the anti-war movement, or any other political movement, you will find some people within who are crazy or worse. Common sense people realize this and dont conflate the behavior of the few with the many. Dishonest shills with agendas do that.
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:39 am
no – it is *not* dangerous at all.
more dangerous is putting up taxes for the wealthy………which you morons oppose.
Steve Williams Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
Hmmm… you talk a lot like reconmarine, Aunty. You even use the same kind of use of lack of capitalization, and that signature trademark of the long stretch of periods.
And the use of the word “morons”. And from whom have we heard that term quite a lot?
And come to think of it, where is reconmarine? If there is a comment board going on regarding the subject of 9-ll, reconmarine is always there to spread lies and disinfo. Recon has been conspicuously absent.
Gasp! Recon! Did you you go to Colorado for a sex change? Not there’s anything wrong with that. I was just curious. Even though I personally cringe at the thought of what you did, I applaud your determination and courage. You go, girl. Unfortunately, though, your sex change did nothing to effect your mental ability for the better. But I sincerely hope you’re a happier person now and more at peace with yourself. At least you’re not using as much profanity at us as you used to.
George [Costanza] Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
Tax the wealthy is a canard. We don’t play class warfare.
ADL SHILL^^^^^^^^^^ Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Uh, no I dont asshole. Way to assume you stupid little girl.
ADL SHILL^^^^^^^^^^ Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
And yes, it is dangerous but you are clearly too slow to see 9/11 for what it is.
Joe Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Sorry George, you may not play it but many do and have been for a long time. Its not a myth. If it ever was its a great one because it has always gone in one direction for the most part. Can you guess which one that is?
Auntie you lack of any doubt about a subject you are not an expert in is astounding. But then it seems you find your doubt in others quite easily. Why do you feel you “need” to believe or know waht you do. Remember I’m not claiming to be the one that knows. I am claiming I don’t know and I have doubts about the subject.
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Steve Williams-
I checked my email today not to my surprise to see you had bitched out and havent emailed me to set up a 9/11 debate.
Thats what i thought, you keep talking s--- and Ill keep spreading facts debunking your bulls--- offensive lies.
rik thomas Reply:
July 19th, 2009 at 9:46 am
taxes mean government. did stalin have a progressive tax structure?
hehe
auntie semite, let hilary snuff you after she has butt sex with you.
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Why would anyone want to debate someone who has no facts other than “10 million independent experts all agree…..’
Tell ya what, find me one of those “experts” and I’ll debate him. Go direct cut out the middle man
July 16th, 2009 at 8:30 am
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel) Says:
July 3rd, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel)
May 19, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Hi Mark my name is ******* and I want to thank you for making a website like yours. I was planning to do the same thing
because I had lost my brother in law in 9/11. He was a fireman Lt.
Robert F Wallace. Due to Loose Change theories my nephew Danny
Wallace got caught up in trying to find the truth and got caught up
with a group in NYC truth911.org What happened next was horrible. I
felt like they used my nephew because of this father that died in
9/11, my reason for being that they used him you can you tube a vide
of Danny Wallace talking for truth911 and see other videos of him
taking to an NBC anchor man calling a 911 family member an *******.
Anyways the fact being i felt this group hurt our family. It was bad
enough we lost Robert Wallace Dannys father but because they got
Danny Wallace all caught up in 911 theories that made him more
depressed and he over dosed on sleeping pills or downers as they
called it. He died this year a few days after his birthday. Every
time i hear about Loose Change or truth911.org and there meets ever
11th of the mother really gets me pissed and want to stop them from
hurting other families.
So I thank you
- ******
His girl friend ****** was with him the night he died. She is heavily into the 911truth.org movement.
I do not know the full story of what happened to my nephew but from what we my family were told by Danny’s girl friend ******. (what i am about to tell you i am still so confused about because her story changed so much into what happened or what he or she did that night, only ******* really knows)
Version 1: Danny stayed over at her house that night in Queens and was having trouble breathing, ****** thought nothing of it and just let him sleep and in the morning she found him very blue and called 911.
Version 2: Danny was having trouble sleeping so he took some sleeping pills was having trouble breathing ****** thought nothing of it so in the morning when she woke she found him blue and not breathing.
Version 3: ******* and Danny had just got back from a party and Danny had bought the pills at the party from someone, took them to help him fall asleep. He took 1, then said these pills aren’t working so took about 15 or some stupid amount of these pills and later that night was having trouble breathing, ******* waited till morning when she woke and saw he was blue and not breathing.
Version 4: Danny had bought these pills from this kid and ******* is unsure how many pills he took or what kind they were but the pills had some numbers on it. In the morning She found him blue and not breathing.
Now after his death our friends were telling all different kind of things that ******* had told them what happened these were the versions I heard had happened. So many things went in my mind theories. I wanted to put blame but I don’t know the truth. I do know she know more to what happened then she was telling us. But she loved Danny and Danny loved her, she went out with Danny for years I believe it was 7 or 8 years they have been seeing each other. What really kills me though I hear now she is currently with this Luke kid the one that was suppose to be Danny’s newly found best friend who dragged him into the truth911 movement! I am so outraged by this but I keep quite because of my family.
Our Family is together as a whole but Danny’s mother and my mother Danny’s grandmother wants to believe in truth911 movement because Danny believed in it so much as they see it, to me he was almost brain washed and being feed misinformation by them. But they are mothers, what are they suppose to do? shortly after Danny’s death, Dan was suppose to do a speech for the truth911 in Las Vegas but because of his death his mother went there to speak for Danny.
Also what got me, was when Danny was alive the truth 911 was telling Danny they will be making a movie about all of this and he was going to be in the movie. It really seemed to me like they used Dan. Their videos on you tube of Dan really shows it they used Danny and his fathers name so they can push their own ideas on people. It is not a movement for truth but a movement for their thoughts and propaganda to be pushed on victims of 911 and the america people.
You know what really pisses me off about this? It’s not that Luke lied about Dan’s death or Infowars is using a corpse for their gains, but that I am completely unshocked by this entire situation. I’ve been dealing with these psychos for over a year and seen their tactics. This does not surprise me
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:41 am
wow. take note, troofers? This is what your mad and pathetic exploitation of people does – f---s them up.
And all for what? NOTHING. 911troof has achieved NOTHING.
Mike Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
First I’d say I sympathize with family that lost the firefighter and his son. Second I’d like to say to Aunty, The truth movement is NOT responsible for their deaths. Third, if planes caused the damage that brought them down, they would have fallen towards the least resistance. That means the tops would have fallen to the side with the damage, not the path of greatest resistance not through 75 floors. Fourth, BUILDING 7, 2 PLANES AND 3 BUILDINGS, I know that doesn’t add up. Fifth, why doesn’t any of the flight manifests match the national death registery. According to the death registery only the pilots and flight crew died on them planes on 9/11. Sixth, the other planes on 9/11, Pennsylvania and the Pentagon, both planes vaporized leaving only a handful of scraps, engines made of titanium DO NOT vaporize. Each one these facts alone warrant a new investigation. Most important of all is, 2,700 victims need justice not two wars killing innocent civilians, not to mention the troops serving over there. The truth only sets you free, it doesn’t kill you.
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
no – it’s an impossibility that the tops would fall over to the side. it seems counter-intuitive, and it is, i guess. But that’s the case.
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Mike- Explain your applicable expertise in building collapse forensics and how your research debunks the worlds leading researchers.
Bill Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
Go to ae911truth.com for all the architectural expertise anyone could reasonably ask for.
MagnusXO Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Yes it has, and it expands every day. We are only fighting shadows, and for that all you need is to show people the light. 911 Truth has accomplished that, and the snowball effect is just beginning whether you like it or not.
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
ahhh – a snowball effect completely unlike that of a falling WTC, huh?
MagnusXO Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Yes, because this one will be real.
rik thomas Reply:
July 19th, 2009 at 9:50 am
do you think if this paul isaac mossad guy cared AT ALL about our country he would be spending his time making up beefs with 911 truth?
haha
July 16th, 2009 at 8:33 am
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel) Says:
July 3rd, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Gravy22nd August 2007, 08:14 AM
I’m not going to say who it was, but they are extremely angry they are using Dan’s name and his father’s to protect themselves. As I said before, I did took out some parts of the email that were rather personal by their request. They are sick of these people and want to inform others like myself about what really happened, otherwise they wouldn’t have emailed me about this in the first place.
MarkyX22nd August 2007, 08:27 AM
Luke was a 9/11 Denier on ground zero who befriended Dan Wallace, son of firefighter Robert F Wallace on 9/11. Dan Wallace wanted to know what happened to his father and the local truth movement organization there told him the usual stuff like “bombs were in the towers” and so forth. They have used Dan as a shield before when Mark Roberts was at Ground Zero, trying to spin it as debunkers were being jerks to the 9/11 victims.
However, he died and Luke said he died of “natural causes”, however many members of the movement believed he was killed by the government because he was “too close to the truth”. Not once did Luke mention anything about an overdose (Dan started taking pills after meeting up with Luke due to depression) and the other members of the movement such as Infowars try to spin it as Dan was assassinated by the government.
nlarosa22nd August 2007, 02:50 PM
I am Dans uncle in FL West Palm Beach and it is a personal matter with my nephews death. But when they make up lies about the government assassinating him it then becomes a public matter because they are lying to people and making some kind of movie? of some sort to bring more believers. I don’t know the reason for their lies to make money to be in history books or what i just don’t understand it. But i would like to know how people feel about them lying to the public when they say they are asking for the truth and they claim they know the truth. I recently saw a video of popular mechanics and Jason Bermas – Producer and Researcher of Loose Change debating and every time popular mechanics says a fact or that they spoke to an expert on the field about Jasons claims, Jason just yelled and called them a liar. These people are lairs! and can’t back anything up with fact. All they do is twist the fact by leaving details out for their interests.
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel) Says:
July 3rd, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel)
June 8, 2009 at 1:44 pm
nlarosa Posted: Sep 25 2007, 01:30 PM
Newbie
Group: Members
Posts: 1
Member No.: 7,329
Joined: 25-September 07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OcRw0BZvPs
ok in this video posted by wearechange. Rivera first flashed my brother in laws prayer card!!!! and then is yelling in the video ” i didn’t find my family member because of you, because you threw them away” and then so goes on ” I didn’t find them because of this scum” WTF she did not lose anyone 9/11 and she is not my family member why the hell do they put my family into this? They have no respect at all for anyone, I lost all respect for Rivera we told her to leave our family out of this These people seriously have something wrong with them, they just lie and don’t care what they are lying about.
Do you people really care about the victims? Because i know Sabrina and she did not lose anyone 9/11 she is a lair just like you people it seems. WE HAVE ASKED TO LEAVE OUR FAMILY OUT OF THIS AND NOT TO SPEAK FOR DANNY WALLACE BECAUSE HE CAN’T SPEAK FOR HIMSELF ANYMORE PERIOD!
DON’T USE MY BROTHER IN LAW WHO DIED 9/11 EVER AGAIN Lt Robert F. Wallace YOU PEOPLE ARE SICK AND MAKE ME SICK!
Lin Kuei Posted: Sep 25 2007, 02:00 PM
logical progression
Group: Admin
Posts: 770
Member No.: 1,896
Joined: 2-February 07
Whomever you are, this is a matter to be brought up with wearechange, it is their video. They have a website: http://www.wearechange.org
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:43 am
thanks for posting this stuff. I don’t suppose it will do any good, because we’re talking about a cult here. But nevertheless, thanks – it might help.
July 16th, 2009 at 8:36 am
NYsentinel Says:
July 1st, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Les Jamieson: was caught distributing a newsletter published by the anti-Semitic Liberty Lobby. See: http://www.truthmove.org/forum/topic/12?replies=8 He organized the Ready for Mainstream conference in 2007, which mixed generally good presentations with those of Tarpley, Fetzer and Alfred Webber. He also is organizing the 9/11 Ballot Initiative, which is proposing to have Edgar Mitchell on its commission. He has bad-jacket written all over him.
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Liberty Lobby is another of Willis Carto’s outfits: Carto is a leading light of american fascism and anti-semitism. Alex Jones uses employees of Carto in his output (Jim Tucker) and also uses one of Carto’s supporters (Mike Rivero) on his show.
The thing 911 Troofers refuse to deal with is, how much their “movement” has been hijacked by organised fascism, and how important to fascism the “movement” itself is.
Hence why so many Troofers have all this “info” about jewish complicity – that’s the main crossover with nazism etc.
Troofers refuse to accept the information they take as “solid” is wholly compromised – because it is coming from the far-right……….like Carto’s Liberty Lobby, or his AFP, via Bollyn etc……..
July 16th, 2009 at 8:39 am
Paul Isaac Says:
June 29th, 2009 at 8:17 am
UP FRONT News May 28, 2008
Published by Tom Weiss
Editorial Advisor: Willard Whittingham
“The paper that can’t be bought and can’t be sold.”
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/.....ssionforum
http://www.tomsupfrontnews.blogspot.com/
By Tom Weiss
As many people now know, the first news account suggesting that the LaRouche-ites who run the so-called “9/11 Truth” groups based at St. Mark’s in-the-Bowery Church may be connected to the death of Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.-harassed Dan Wallace appeared in UP FRONT News. Why? Because of the fact that Wallace had previously witnessed the multiple harassments of me by people like Les Jamieson and Frank Morales and had taken it upon himself to do a video interview with me outside St. Mark’s on one of the evenings I had been physically barred from entering by Jamieson’s and Morales’ thugs. (There are reasons why St. Mark’s is earning its UP FRONT News label of “Our Lady of LaRouche.”)
During that interview – which was witnessed by No Police State Coalition list-serve co-manager Roman Shusterman – as soon as I mentioned the connections between Jamieson/Morales and LaRouche (via for example so called 9/11 “expert” Webster Tarpley, a LaRouche/Schiller Institute honcho, and via the psychopathic demagogue and deposed dictator of Union Square Geoffrey Blank, et. al.) Mr. Wallace interrupted to tell me that he had been harassed by LaRouche people for some time. At that point his “girlfriend”, identifying herself as “Sabrina”, appeared and confirmed what Mr. Wallace was telling me.
It was a few weeks after that interview that I learned that Mr. Wallace was dead. I recall much outward “mourning” behavior by people including the now political enemies Jamieson and Luke Rudkowski.
According to the NYPD, detectives found a large amont of illegal drugs in Mr. Wallace’s Queens residence and the cause of death was listed as “drug oversose.”
At a Luke Rudkowski-run 9/11-related meeting in the balcony of a midtown deli, I talked very briefly with Sabrina. She told me that she found Mr. Wallace dead in bed next to her. She also volunteered the telephone number for Mr. Wallace’s mother but suggested that his mother might not respond in a friendly way to a call. As I recall it was at that point that the dour and uncommunicative Rudkowski (aptly compared physically by Mr. Shusterman to Eminem) placed himself between Sabrina and me and ordered me to stop asking questions. I responded by telling him not to tell me what to do.
It is a fact that the aging but very active LaRouche, a convicted federal felon (credit card and mail fraud) reportedly off parole, who is making what has to be his last gasp at attaining total power, is actively working with the left (e.g. the Greens, “9/11 Truth”, “World Can’t Wait”, ANSWER) the right (he has had long ties to the KKK as well as ties to the Cheney/Bush gang) and within the mainstream (he is a registered Democrat, recurrently a candidate for president and parades as a worshiper of FDR).
Among the Democrats connected to LaRouche is a yarmulke-wearing crypto-fascist named Charles Lenchner, who, when he was working for Jonathan Tasini, one of LaRouche’s surrogate candidates for the U.S. Senate, pushed me around. Lenchner, presumably still an official in the Progressive Democrats for America (PDA), managed to fifth-column his way into the Dennis Kucinich for President campaign in 2004 and into the John Edwards campaign in 2008. Lenchner is connected to LaRouche’s magazine Executive Intelligence Review.
It is known that the well-camouflaged LaRouche, a worshiper of things German – who lives with his wife Helga Zepp-LaRouche on a plush and isolated estate known as the Ibikus farm in Loudoun County, Va., heads a totalitarian political cult. Aside from UP FRONT News, there is much information on this Hitler-wannabe to be derived from the investigative reporter Dennis King and from the Rick A. Ross Institute and other sources.
LaRouche is known to deal with those who leave his cult harshly. One apparent victim who also met an early demise was Jeremiah Duggan, a young Jewish man who got involved with the LaRouche/Webster Tarpley Schiller Institute. Duggan became a dissenter and wound up being run over by a car. The German police said “suicide” and the London Metropolitan Police rejected that conclusion, labeling the Schiller Institute a “sinister and dangerous cult.”
Jamieson and Morales invited Tarpley to be a guest speaker at “9/11 Truth” a few years ago. When I suggested to Jamieson that “9/11 Truth” members should be made aware of the Tarpley/LaRouche link, he whispered to me, “You better keep your mouth shut about that.” And when Tarpley came to speak at St. Mark’s, during the Q&A, as I asked my question regarding the similarity in 9/11 views between Tarpley and LaRouche, Jamieson tried to physically push me from the microphone.
And when Jamieson and Morales invited the fascist Geoffrey Blank to speak there on December 4, 2005 Blank came with his club-in-the pants leg concealing brownshirts such as the St. Mark’s regular and psychopath with the Hitler-style haircut, Karl Rosenstein (who has tried to assault me on three occasions), the place nearly exploded into LaRouche-style violence.
At some point, there will be complete federal, state and city criminal investigations of the death of Dan Wallace. Maybe Jamieson and Morales can be represented by the convicted terrorism heroine lawyer Lynne Stewart if she escapes prison.
* * * * * * *
Paul Isaac Says:
June 29th, 2009 at 8:22 am
The post above it titled: Who Killed Danny Wallace?
By Tom Weiss
MagnusXO Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
What a bunch of useless gibberish
July 16th, 2009 at 8:41 am
Les Jamieson Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Dim bulbs like Dan Wallace and Luke Rudkowski have deeply hurt the 9/11 truth movement.To see Mark Roberts hand young Dan his ass is not something a sane person would put into a film promoting his pal.Luke,if you are checking these comments,consider excising the extra part here which embarrases you both terribly.Onward,Les!
. Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 8:43 am
The tour guide is a joke, he makes a fool of himself every time he speaks. Please keep using that poor excuse of a “debunker”. Seriously.
July 16th, 2009 at 8:44 am
LRRP 1968 – sweet.
The best part is…they cannot discount Dr. Niels Harrit’s work – all he wants is a better world for his six grandchildren.
As do I.
July 16th, 2009 at 8:50 am
http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/ …DefendantSearch
search: Lukasz Rudkowski
Court New York Criminal Court
Case # 2009NY025417
Defendant Rudkowski, Lukasz
Former WAC job | Homepage | 05.26.09 – 1:22 am | #
DefendantName:Rudkowski, Lukasz
Birth Year:1986
NYSID:5608516J
Status:TWOOFER
Attorney InformationDefense Attorney
Name:
Type:Legal Aid
Court Date:March 29, 2009
Court Part:APAR3
LEGAL AID, LMAO, HE’S f---ED!
Next AppearanceDate:May 26, 2009
Court:New York Criminal Court
SWEET!
911truth are liars | Homepage | 05.26.09 – 1:30 am | #
July 16th, 2009 at 8:52 am
For instance, apparently the PayPal link on WAC leads directly to his personal bank account. Of course we all doubt the $100,000 figure, but at least for two years, he’s had his little soldiers (read “Moonies”) down at Ground Zero at least peripherally begging for donations. There are a lot of suckers out there, and it’s probably the case that there is a number of people who have thrown the organization $10 or $20 (the donations are for first responders, after all!). Actually, the nature of PayPal might help in this – as it’s really ease just to click through to a small donation.
July 16th, 2009 at 8:55 am
DefendantName:Rudkowski, Lukasz
Birth Year:1986
NYSID:5608516J
Status: gay twoofer
Charge Detail Disposition/Sentence
PL 140.10 0A
**TOP CHARGE** B Misdemeanor, 1 count, Not an arrest charge, Arraignment charge
Description Crim Trespass 3rd:enclsd Prop
Next AppearanceDate:July 27, 2009
Court:New York Criminal Court
911truth are liars | Homepage | 05.27.09 – 2:08 am | #
July 16th, 2009 at 8:57 am
Folks,this is the chickens coming home to roost.Luke Rudkowski has been involved in unconscionable slander towards many of his fellow activists for years now.My pursuit of spiritual salvation became fodder for his grandiose and ambitious intentions,and resulted in 75% of our group hightailing it over to Clown Central.There is no doubt in my mind that Luke pinched this money for himself,I happen to know that he has a pretty substantial problem with the truth.When I attempted to introduce him to the precepts of the Urantia Book,he was contemptuous and prideful.Not a good sign.Goof on brothers,but you’ll never stop us! Onward,Les.
Les Jamieson | 05.27.09 – 4:47 pm | #
Freaking halarious
July 16th, 2009 at 9:01 am
MONDAY, JULY 13, 2009
9-11-09 Festivities
Continue to cause waves in the Troof community. Somebody noticed that now that Les and Luke are cooperating, We Are Change took down their post from February 2007, accusing Les of appropriating the money from the NYC 9-11 Truth accounts.
Les Jamieson has confiscated all funds related to NY911Truth. Les Jamison routed all donations totaling over $5,800 to his private bank account, confiscated DVD duplicators, estimated at about $1,000 and the film projector ,estimated $1,000 which was bought with donations.
There are two possibilities here. Either Luke took down the post as a show of unity with Les, or he took down the post because it’s getting a little embarrassing now that Luke himself is being accused of financial irregularities.
Meanwhile, check out some of the entertainment:
On August 5, 2006, Supernatural attempted to set a new world record for the longest freestyle whilst hosting the Rock The Bells festival in San Bernardino, CA. Supernatural freestyled for over nine hours, breaking the original record of 8 hours 45 minutes set by D.O. of Canada, but not the 10 hours 34 minutes set by British emcee Ruffstylz in October 2003. The Current World Record is 16 Hours, set by Brooklyn DJ and lyricist/activist DJ Green Arrow. It should be noted that D.O. still holds the official record according to Guinness, not Supernat or Ruffstylz or DJ Green Arrow. DJ Green Arrow has pledged to officially break the Guinness Record, Sept. 12-13 at an event in NYC called the Real Change and Transparency conference. DJ Green Arrow has been training to rap for 48 Hours, thus quintupling the official record still held by D.O. and tripling his own record. DJ Green Arrow also is training to be able to break his world record every year, with money to benefit activist movements.
Yep, if you attend you could see the longest ever freestyle rap.
9-11 was an inside job
Orchestrated by the Cheney mob
and underwritten by a man named Bob
Who was quite a slob.
The towers came down in controlled demolition
Richard Gage demonstrates with boxes in position
He needs money so send it on condition
That he drops those boxes just like a magician!
Labels: Les Jamieson, Luke Rudkowski, Real Change and Transparency Conference
posted by Pat @ 9:23 AM Comments (10) | Trackback
July 16th, 2009 at 9:05 am
Declaration of NY911Truth To all:
I feel extremely reluctant to discuss the current situation with NY 9/11 Truth, but it needs to be addressed if we are going to move forward in this movement. This situation has been extremely divisive, and I hope we can all come to a resolution in a civil and honest manner. It should be known that I’ve tried to deal with this in an private setting, hoping to shield the rest of the movement from this unnecessary drama. However, Les Jamieson has put me in a position where that is no longer possible. It should be also noted that Les Jamieson that over the past few months, the following has occurred:
Les Jamieson with out any reason took me (Luke Rudkowski) off the main NY911Truth list serve, preventing me from emailing the 1,093 members of NY911Truth with updates and announcements related to upcoming events. Les Jamison also publicly stated that I, Luke Rudkowski, have started my own organization, which he sees as a separate entity from NY911Truth. This is false. I started the CHANGE organization in the hopes that it would represent the younger members of NY 9/11 Truth and offer them an outlet they otherwise may not have. Les Jamieson owns 100% of the NY 9/11 Truth web site and the e mail list. In fact all donations to NY911Truth go through Les Jamisons private bank account. It should be noted Les Jamieson was never voted into any positions of power. It should be noted I recently planned a big event to support show support for Rosie O’Donnell. But I wasn’t able to get the word out effectively, because I found myself locked out of the e-mail account. This only hurts the movement.
Les Jamieson has confiscated all funds related to NY911Truth. Les Jamison routed all donations totaling over $5,800 to his private bank account, confiscated DVD duplicators, estimated at about $1,000 and the film projector ,estimated $1,000 which was bought with donations.
Les Jamieson has 100% control of donations that come to us in NY911truth. In the past month he has refused to support activists with flyers and DVDs for the past month (Donations always paid for flyers and DVDs) Less actions left NY911Truth activists at Ground Zero for the past month and last 7 street actions without any supplies. The Tireless activists of NY911Truth have been taking money out their own pockets for materials to distribute. It should be noted Les has not been present at these street actions.
Les Jamieson has made slanderous statements regarding the integrity and allegiance of our hardest working activists and spread rumors that were without merit. His false and slanderous accusations have given this movement a black eye. I will not allow Les Jamison to become judge, jury and executioner in the case against me and other devoted members.
Les Jamieson has refused and ignored any efforts by myself and other members of NY911Truth to deal with this situation. I have left Les about 80 voice messages asking him to resolve this problem. I called for open and democratic NY911Truth meetings. Les chose to ignore them. He has ignored me and any efforts to meet with me. Sander Hicks proposed a conversation with himself as moderator. I immediately approved while Les ignored Sanders plea. It should be noted that Sander Hicks and Kyle Hence have proposed that Les step down. [Emphasis added by Christs4sale]
What Les has done is held private meetings with his personal friends. In these private meetings he has handpicked his friends to establish a so-called steering committee . These people do not represent the organization. It should be noted that while an average of 15 people attend the open meetings, only 4 people attend these private sessions including Les.
NY911Truth recently gave Les Jamieson 1 week to respond to a letter signed by 42 NY911truth activists calling for an open democratic resolution to this conflict. The majority of active NY911Truth members do not support Les Jamieson, Yet Les has refused to acknowledge the majority of NY911Truth members.
And I won’t even get into how Les screwed Tom Foti, one of our most active and dedicated members, out of access to NY911 funds.I feel that actions speak louder than words. I will not stoop to calling Les Jamieson an infiltrator. But I will bring the proper attention to his actions.This needs to be resolved in a way where everyone in the group has a voice. This isn’t a dictatorship. It’s an activist organization that will only prosper through teamwork. Personally, I have nothing to hide and I am not afraid of airingthis situation out in the proper forum.
Street Actions
We will continue our street actions every Saturday at ground zero from 1pm to 4pm no matter what, even if we go broke doing it.Every 11th we are dedicating a street action to one of our most beloved members Dan Wallace , as well as all the lives lost on 9/11/01. We will stand up every 11th of each month until the truth of 9/11 comes out. R.I.P Dan Wallace
Support
For now, as NY911Truth until the financial issues are resolved, if you want to support the actions at ground zero please donate to the youth group of NY911Truth.at http://www.wearechange.org
DO NOT donate on the NY911Truth.org webpage since all donations go to Less private bank account. Any money spent by the NY911truth activists at http://www.wearechange.org will be accounted for with statements. Les was recently on WBAI radio show and on the Geraldo Rivera TV Show proclaiming himself the leader of the 9/11 truth movement and a tireless activist. His actions of late do not represent that. Rather, they have held the movement back from reaching it’s full potential.
Consider this a public plea to all leaders and activists in the truth movement who identify Les Jamison as the leader of NY911Truth. He does not have the support of the majority of NY911Truth and thus, no longer represents NY911Truth. NY911Truth does not have an overlord, but a group of people who work together to make things happen.
If anyone is a friend of Les Jamison, can you please plead with him to do the right thing.
Les Jamison your actions of late have inevitably fractured the group and all that we have worked to achieve. Whether you are breaking this group up intentionally or not, all that we ask if for you to do the right thing.
Peace and Respect,Luke – NY911Truthwww.myspace.com/peoplesv
July 16th, 2009 at 9:08 am
As is revealed in the links above, there is now a conflict between Luke and other WAC folks about a very similar grievance. This time those concerned contend that it is Luke who is now doing very much what Luke accused Les of having done in the past.
Based on my experience with Les I would say that the assertions Luke makes about Les in the documents above seem very likely to be true. They express a very familiar picture of how Les manages NY911Truth with only the most minimal nod to democratic process. He does not support transparency, accountability, and he’s simply not honest.
July 16th, 2009 at 9:16 am
Just once I’d like to see a story on the actual news stating that all the engineers and builders of the WTC’s are saying how the towers went down is impossible etc. And then give the official story again.. just to see if people would question anything.. I would love to see that.
http://www.collective-evolution.com
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:56 am
errr – no – all the engineers and builders, and firemen and everyone else are saying the towers came down because of the planes crashing into them, explosions, and subsequent fires.
that *is* what 00s of the most eminent architects and everyone else is saying.
MagnusXO Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
The “Most Eminent” Architects? Really? Do you take yourself seriously? Who decides which architect is ‘eminent’? Last I heard, they all work under the same laws of physics.
There are over one-hundered fireman, and you can go watch them on you-tube right now, who agree to have heard multiple explosions occuring throughout the towers prior to the collapses.
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
they “agree”? that they “heard multiple explosions”?
Do you think a collapsing building sounds “LIKE” explosions?
MagnusXO Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....mp;index=1
Why argue? Watch it yourself and argue with them. Do you think we make this stuff up?
July 16th, 2009 at 9:22 am
Thirty seconds to read the article and twenty minutes to read the comments.
July 16th, 2009 at 9:49 am
After wtc 1 was attacked,thousands of cameras were then viewing WTC2.Odd thing,only a couple of videos are shown hitting the towers.
This stinks to high hell.Was it a plane or photo shop?
Notice no Jewish controlled networks dare critimouthing the government’s lies.They know that Israel Firsters could only pulled off the attacks. From WWI to WWIII, to USS Liberty Bombings to 911 attacks, and worse–WWIII–Jews are vampires
George [Costanza] Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq_ko5jVMBo
July 16th, 2009 at 9:59 am
” I learn then that the chief has been clearing the area in anticipation of the collapse of the fourty-seven stories of #7 WTC.”
“Suddenly, several hundred firefighters are milling about, and when the order is given we all are moved back another few hundred feet from the corner of vessey and west. ”
Page 175
Report From Ground Zero (Dennis Smith)
“All of a sudden the fourty-Seven story building before us begins to shake.
“Its coming down” someone yells, and everyone gets poised to run in the opposite direction. I head with a small group into the bagel shop at the uptown side of the street, but I am watching the building as it begins to crumble. It falls almost as if in slow motion, sinking strait down, and then leans to thesouth,
living most of its rubble against the north wall of building 6…
…The regality of this high building is transformed in a few seconds to mere rubble. And I now fear that has fallen on those we seek. I waite for the dark cloud of concrete dust to hurtling toward us, but it rolls in the other direction,
toward the north east. ”
page 176
Report From Group Zero (Dennis Smith)
“With 7 WTC down, the army of construction workers, police officers, emts, and firefighters begins to work. People who have never met begin working side by side as if they have practiced for months.”
page 177
Report From Ground Zero ( Dennis Smith)
JULY 12, 2009 12:59 PM
Anonymous said…
“My biggest concern at that time was #7. It was burning, and I felt that was a danger to the rescuers and to any trapped survivors there might be. We decided to keep the command post back on Chambers and to keeps all but our necessary people out….
We were all pretty much on board that tower 7 was going to fall. We just didnt know when and which direction. Everybody forgets about 7, but that building was
fourty-seven stories, and that in itself would have been a ver major event. We couldnt fight the fire in tower 7 because we didnt have enough water. All the water mains were down. What water we had was being supplied by the boats, through large- diameter hose. It would have been a chaotic situation, in any event, trying to get in there under those circumstances and fight that fire. The building did go down eventually, all fourty-seven floors, about 5 o’clock….
When the building came down it was completly involved in fire, all fourty-seven stories. The rush of heat and burning papers landed under the cars and [set thirty or fourty of them on fire].”
Assistant Chief of Department Harry Meyers
Page 161 Report From Ground Zero (Dennis Smith)
“On Grenwich I saw, a few Battalion Chiefs coming up on the side streets. I told them to get some lines stretched in and to start to put out some of the car fires before the tanks started going. I told them to keep the guys back and not to treat. Them like car fires [but] like BOMBS.”
page 161 Assistant Chief of Department Harry Meyers
Report From Ground Zero
(Paul Isaac NYsentinel)
Stick the needle in your eye Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Paul-if you havenot noticed, we tuned your stupid ass out long ago. Now go back to being a good shill somewhere else. And take c---y Semite with you.
July 16th, 2009 at 10:02 am
The Port Authority closed out the 1990s with a stream of press releases announcing the rental of unimaginably huge quantities of trade center office space to “cutting edge” firms like sum micro-systems. Yet around the complex a million square feet stood empty, and the buidings originally intended as great catalyzing chambers of world trade were, by degrees, transforming into a kind of disjunctive real estate layer-cake.
One story above the carpeted, wood-paneled offices of a japanese securities firm, a group of “artist” filled bare walls with boldly colored images and hung sculptures from the exposed ceiling girders of a vast echoing cavern.
As part of a Lower Manhattan Cultural Council program that turned some of the vacant space in the towers over to “artist” rent-free, 40,000 square feet of concrete floor lay paint splattered and strewn with the raw materials of a creative urge that has never been easily reconciled with the imperatives of a bottom line.
Page 191
Divided We Stand
Eric Darton (1999)
(Paul Isaac NYsentinel)
July 16th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Truth and Justice for 911
War profiteers should be tried for treason !!!!
July 16th, 2009 at 10:37 am
I think we should formally question Bush and Cheney on what really happened with these experts present. Where are the whistle blowers?
July 16th, 2009 at 10:50 am
“For months, we had in place an exercise in which we’d drill on our responseto a bio/chem attack, specifically practicing for the distribution of medication. The planned date: Wednesday, september 12. We had stored much of the materials for THAT DRILL at pier 92. Pier 92 offered 125.000 square feet of open space and easy transportation to and from Ground Zero by way of boat and the Westside Highway. Moreover, Because IT WAS ALREADY IN USE BY THE MILITARY, the points of access were relatively easy to guard. Richie told me he’d pulled his OEM guys to start setting up pier 92 as a command center. My most optimistic expectation would have been that even a rudimentary replacement for the felled center at 7 world trade would be seven to ten days. By saturday morning, we held our fist meeting.”
Page 355Leadership-Rudolph W Giuliani
Tom Kenney: “We’re currently one of the first teams that was deployed to support the city of New York for THIS DISASTER. We arrived on late Monday night, and went into action on Tuesday morning. And not until today did we get a full opportunity to work the entire site.” (Tom Kenny MASS- FEMA/USAR) Sept 13, 2001
“Normally, the department would thorughly familiar with the FEMA programs,but the authorities on the national Urabn Search and Rescue programs–Chief Ray Downey, Commissioner Feehan, and Chief Donal Burns– are all missing.” (Author) Page 202 Report From Ground Zero (Dennis Smith)
“On the third night we had a guy arrested who followed ONE OF THE Urban Search and Rescue Teams. He had an orange jump suit on with a backpack, and he was wearing a helmet that said Rescue across the back. He had a book of some kind and followed one team and broke off from them after they were. He did a little shopping in the stores down on the concourse. Someone else tried to accompany ANOTHER USAR team down, but it leader was a pretty sharp guy from MASSACHUSETTS (Tom Kenny). “This guy is not one of ours,” he said.” You may want to check him out,” We called one of our cops over and found a ton of watches and cell phones in his backpack. They arrested him”
Page 164
FDNY Assistant Chief of Department
Harry Meyers
Report from Ground Zero
(Dennis Smith)
“We got there TWENTY MINUTES after the towers came down and Parked on the other side of City Hall. Someone brings us an ESU officer who was wandering. We put him our truck for accountability purposes. Behind his eyes you could see he was really shaken up, he would just look at you. We said, “you’re all right. Your with us now.” All he answered is “They came down.” I said, “I Know they came down.” We staged by the Woolworth Building and get a roster of who is missing and who is not. We then go to stuyvesant High School and from there to ground zero, where we see what kind of equipment we can salvage. FEMA WAS ACTIVATED, AND THEY SHOWED UP WITH EQUIPMENT THAT HAD TO BE STACKED.”
NYPD Police Officer Anita Rosato
Emergency Services Unit, Truck 10
Page 126 Report from Ground Zero
(Dennis Smith FDNY Ret)
GOT TRUTH ?!!
stop Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:57 am
SHUT THE f--- UP YOU ANNOYING SPAMMER.
Tyler Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Maybe you should see who Paul Isaac is.
Seriously.
You might be surprised.
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
he did wing commander? yeh!!
Theon Lyreal Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Why would anyone be surprised to see a Mossad spam monkey posting here?
Tyler Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Not the game developer.
Paul Isaac FDNY, respondant to the 9/11 event. Does not believe the governement’s account of how it happened.
Nice to hear you call him that. /s
July 16th, 2009 at 11:27 am
is it the same mafia type of people who were somewhere in Halliburton & KBR??are there just evil mafia shepple in charge everywhere
US Troops in Iraq talk about Halliburton & KBR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chXjCtkymRQ
Interviews with US troops and Halliburton employees explain what is happening in Iraq.
Theon Lyreal Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Mass-murder of innocents and false-flag terrorism
July 16th, 2009 at 11:27 am
A very simple fact in the 9-11 pile of BS that proves the “official” report has nothing of merit within it’s pages is that there isn’t one single part from any of the four airliners that has been logged into evidence, showing what aircraft it is. Virtually all commercial aircraft parts are uniquely stamped and itemized to the “air frame” information on ALL airliners. These inventoried lists are for literally thousands of parts on the plane even certain screws are unique to each aircraft. The government has reassembled more of the Space Shuttle Columbia, which virtually vaporized over a few thousand kilometers than it has on the 4 planes that are claimed to be the weapons of choice by terrorist cave dwellers. PROOF OF A TOTAL FABRICATED REPORT
john Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Really Mike? Show us pictures of this reassembled shuttle…
July 16th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Its going to take many years.
July 16th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
WAR PROFITEERS
SHOULD BE TRIED FOR TREASON
THEN HUNG FROM THEIR BALLS
Those who talk s--- on the internet with no balls
will be hung from skirt
July 16th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Trollers for 911Truth
Invictus
July 16th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
After careful study and many years of research,there is nothing as far as eveidence to go on.How could they end the investagation with so little.My therory on how the explosives got there is going back to 1993 when the WTC was attacked.Think somebody should look into the fact that as the repairs were done to the wtc building in 1993 if there was any contracts to improve the buildings structure or interior.And if so what buildings were serviced. Who did the alterations and repairs.That nano thermite could easily be added in to paint or applied and covered with paint stucko or dry wall.I’m left to wonder.The 3 buildings that came down.Were they redone made safer or any alterations.Then I’m left to wonder.Why those three buildings.I think the other buildings in the wtc complex should be checked cut into and tested.They may also have been rigged the same as the rest yet they didn’t catch fire as they may have been intended to.I bet you Those other buildings get tested you will find nano thermite in those structures as well.More than likely in the steel coloms and rivets.Please.If somebody knows anyone go get those other buildings looked over.Or any buildings that were serviced repair or altered after the 1993 bombing.As far as the pentagon goes.I’ve been into weapons and warfare all my life.That was no plane Thats a united states built Alcm.That missle was chosen because that missle is sub-sonic.Any other missle it’s size except the tomahawk is super sonic.The alcm and tomahawk can match the same speed as any nearly every airliner.Make no mistake,the U.S.Goverment not the one that we see of course killed these people in cold blood.The military industrial complex cannot survive or get money when there are no enemies.So of course you have to kill your own population to make one up.Keep them in fear so there for keep them in need of protection.Want the truth,Bring either cheney,bush or both to trial for treason against the constitution and the american people.They are only above the law if we allow it.Get ‘em boys
me Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
It was reported earlier that in July several new “servers” for the computer rooms were delivered. No security checks are done in computer rooms because they have to be static free areas, meaning no dogs aloud. There is a detailed version somewhere out there on this.
July 16th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
For Tyler
Sentinel
Newbie
Offline
Posts: 19
Re: FDNY Auxiliary?
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2008, 02:18:45 PM »
This was a little something I put to “Americas Mayor” before 9-11. He was givin a “vunerable list” by former NYPD Chief Lou “Big Lou” Annimone before 9-11 which sited WTC as a vunerable target for terrorism. I loved how he disribed the look “Glazed.” I call it “Glazed Doughnuts” What did “Americas Mayor” turn around and do?
He put a command and Control Operations Center right smack in the middle of it.
Go Figure
I was under the impression that if the mayor were to hear that two aux cops assisted in preventing the death and injuries to posibly hundreds of people in midtown 7/27/00 17Pct 2100hrs. That he show an interest in it but I guess I was wrong in assuming that. I’m sorry that I was trying to do the right thing when we noticed people in trouble. Maybe it could have been someone in your family in that bus hostage situation that we were tracking. But I’ve learned an important lesson in this matter, to mind my own business and when I see someone in trouble or as was our case a life and death emergency relating to a bomb threat in midtownmanhattan on a crowded bus on a crowded street we’ll just follow your example and stay out of it. Thanks for a lesson well taught. Paul Isaac Jr APO#12017-438136-17Pct.
E-mail Letter to NYC-GOV Monday September 11, 2000 1657Hrs.
Note 8/1/8: My partner and I were commendably dismissed 27 September 2000.
Funny how I never recieved discharge papers or notice from the FDNY.
(Sentinel)
Logged
July 16th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
70 Disturbing Facts About the 9/11 Attacks
July 16th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
71. Fake 911truth movement “leaders” and the idiots who blindly follow them
July 16th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Hey, can I play too?
Imagine a situation where a team of thieves plots several simultaneous bank robberies in the downtown financial district of a major city.
None of the bank tellers are able to send out an alarm to the police even though banks have numerous hidden silent alarms for foiling robbery. The guards at the bank take much longer to call the police for assistance than they have done on previous occasions.
When eventually notified, the police take an extraordinarily long amount of time to show up on the scene, despite an unblemished record of immediate response to prior robberies.
The city leadership does not act surprised when notified the robbery is underway. The commander of the nearest police station continues working at his desk despite the robbery across the street. The Mayor is holding a photo opportunity at a nearby elementary school, and continues reading to second graders even after his assistant whispers in his ear that bank robbers had just committed the largest mass murder in the city’s history.
Evidence from the scene, which could explain some abnormal circumstances, is immediately shipped overseas and destroyed. The Mayor announces that no criminal investigation will occur since this was an act of belligerence and proceeds to interfere with any attempts to investigate the incident.
So Sherlock, who committed the crime?
Don’t ask me, I can’t even figure out why that guy flew all the way around to the other side of the Pentagon. Or what happened to the videos shot by those guys in the white van. Or what was on the recovered hard drives.
Paul and Aunty are making baby Jesus cry. You bastards!
July 16th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Hey aunty, after reading all of your posts and arguments about whether it was the heat or the impact of the planes that brought the towers down, then answer me this if it was the heat how come people were yelling for help out of the gaping holes in the buildings where the plane hit ? Or how about building 7 no plane hit it and it collapsed semetrically at near free fall speeds, just like the other 2 buildings. HMM no plane hit it, no jet fuel for comustion just a small fire. It must have been the f---ing wind
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
were there people in the holes calling for help? no – seems not.
7 was hit by debris from WTC – and did suffer significant fires. It was predicted by firecrews it’d come down…….read the transcripts and the evidence………?
Theon Lyreal Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Pathetic
MagnusXO Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Anybody who watches 7 come down can see the ’squibs’ firing out as the building falls. The uniformity of the collapse is symmetrical, but there is NOTHING symmetrical about the damage it suffered. Even in the official story, the collapse of building 7 is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT then the WTC, because there is no ‘Piledriver’ crushing the building downward as claimed in Tower 1 and 2. (so not only are the three buildings supposedly the first steel towers to ever collapse due to fire, they suffer TWO SEPARARATE COLLAPSE PHENOMENON, one from a “Piledriver”, the other from “some fires and various debris damage”.)
Oh yeah…the owner of the building admits to ‘making the decision to pull the building’ and ‘watching it come down’. In this interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....p;index=16
And then there is the inconvienent fact that the BBC reported the building had collapsed when in fact itwas still standing, and then collapsed 20 minutes later.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mxFRigYD3ser.
So go ahead and argue with reality some more.
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
Whats pathetic is your inability to reply to the topic.
Larry Silverstien lost money on 9/11 and he said “and then THEY made the decision to pull it”. They as in Chief Daniel Nigro who he was speaking to.
BUT, if ti was an inside job, why would they need his permission to do something planned for years in advance and why would the NYFD, who lost 343, be involved. You do realize your implicating them in your retarded theories right?
Read what the BBC says about why they reported what they did.
The Real Don Steele Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 12:45 am
The real reconmarine,
What’s really pathetic is your repeated attempts to use the dead firefighters as rhetorical human shields for your false and disingenuous arguments. You have repeatedly made the assertion that Larry Silverstien lost money on 9/11 and despite numerous requests for citation for that claim you have come up with nothing. And what the BBC said regarding their early reporting of the collape of bldg 7 makes even less sense than you do.
George [Costanza] Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
http://www.thevoiceofreason.co.....TCHole.jpg
What is she doing, seeing how far she can spit?
WTC7 was over 100 yards away, so the trajectory of the debris would be downward, not outward.
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
The towers were 110 stories dips---.
You can clearly see WTC7 get hit by the north tower
Bill Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
nonsense
Miguel Grande Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 4:48 am
Aunty 7 wrote, WTC7 was hit by debris from WTC – and did suffer significant fires. It was predicted by firecrews it’d come down…….read the transcripts and the evidence……
WTC7 was over 300 feet from the nearest tower and was shielded by another building between them. If WTC7 was hit and destroyed by flying debris then its absolute proof that the towers were blown up by explosives. Its impossible for it to be hit by debris from 300 feet away by a “melting” building as you insist happened.
July 16th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
errr – no – all the engineers and builders, and firemen and everyone else are saying the towers came down because of the planes crashing into them, explosions, and subsequent fires.
that *is* what 00s of the most eminent architects and everyone else is saying.
Where did you get that bulls--- from fox news
Why dont you watch some of interviews with the firemen resue crews ect.
They completely contract what you just said
Not to mention that the 1st explosion came from the basement before the plane hit
I could go on about some of your other stupid bulls--- you posted, but id rather spend my time doing something else.
I love the people that hate everything about 911 truth alex ect, and keep posting on the site
You must not have anything better to do
Aunty Semite Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
explosion from the basement stuff comes from the janitor………who has subsequently made a good living out of touring the world with millionaire jimmy james. Hardly credible imo.
George [Costanza] Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Actually William Rodriguez is very credible.
His story was substantiated, and especially from the victim who was in a coma for over a month.
http://www.william911.com/
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Yeah, and when he met with GW Bush to accept those awards, he was signing a quite different tune…..
The basement was the only part to survive……No bombs in the towers, no det cord, no huge explosions, NOTHING.
Keep making s--- up guys, you are providing comic relief
Recon is hopeless Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 4:55 am
So you’re calling him a liar? Why do you spit on the 9/11 survivors like Rodriquez? You are disgusting.
MagnusXO Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 10:59 am
You are not a Man.
Tesla Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
This is where your whole argument falls apart: Jimmy James was in FACT a billionaire.
hANOVER fIST Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 7:52 am
You are kidding, right?
“Aunty Semite said: explosion from the basement stuff comes from the janitor………who has subsequently made a good living out of touring the world with millionaire jimmy james. Hardly credible imo.”
Oh…and Larry “Two Sheds” Silverstein is the only honest man in a land of crooks? William Rodriguez should be penniless like every other 9/11 truth-seeker?
July 16th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
and nevermind that the buildings didn’t have to pass NY building code because it was PortAuthority.
Nevermind that in the 70s the NY firechief called the (then) modern buildings “deathtraps”.
George [Costanza] Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Fire chief or Fire marshall?
Seeing as Manhattan is part of New York, can you document such an exemption from NY building codes?
and why wouldn’t it be built to highest specification?
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Because the time it was built.
All steel framed towers NOW have to have steel encased in concrete….You know why?
Because the steel can weaken and buckle in fire……Why would they spend billions to encase all of the worlds steel buildings in concrete if there was no threat from the fires?
July 16th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel)
May 19, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Many ask: Are there FDNY Auxiliary Firefighters?
We say yeah
We are the ones who ignored and shunned by our family and yet here are in the middle of Battle.
I wonder how many FDNY auxiliary firemen
Were lost that no one knows about3
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel)
FDNY Aux Fire Corps / War Fireman
July 16th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Many ask: Are there FDNY Auxiliary Firefighters?
We say yeah
We are the ones who ignored and shunned by our family and yet here are in the middle of Battle.
I wonder how many FDNY auxiliary firemen
Were lost that no one knows about3
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel)
FDNY Aux Fire Corps / War Fireman
—————————————————
“Another of Angelini’s sons, Mike Angelini, an auxiliary firefighter, was standing alongside Fire Chaplain Mychal Judge, helping the injured who poured out of the twin towers. He escaped death, even as the beloved cleric was killed.”
July 16th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
a question the [FDNY] lieutenants test:
” What is the expansion factor of a one-hundred-foot steel beam as it reaches the inherent
heat level of 1200 degrees fahrenheit?”
“9 1/2 inches”
(Dennis Smith)
* now go drop a box jerky
July 16th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
Google: “richard gage still beging for dollars”
July 16th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
All we want is a correct and properly done criminal homicide investigation regarding the events of 9-11 that was SUPPOSED to have been done by city, state, and federal agencies, but wasn’t.
Why are we being regarded as kooks because we ask to be done what was SUPPOSED to be standard operating procedure? If homicide happens, then a homicide investigation then ensues. That’s SOP for every single city, state, and federal police agency.
The fluff regarding WeAreChange is completely irrelevant to a proper criminal homicide investigation being done by the agencies that are supposed to do it.
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
1) You are a huge KOOK and afraid to debate your own theories becasue deep down you know you are wrong.
2nd) Compared to a criminal court, there is a thousand times more evidence implicating al qaeda then what would ever be needed in a court of law. The 9/11 investigation was the largest and most expensive in US history. The collapse of the towers is the most studied building failure in WORLD HISTORY. Go read ALL of the peer reviewed papers.
Stick the needle in your eye Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Al Qaeda was trained by the CIA…FACT!
Bill Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
I have a theory that most people are tired of reading the garbage you post on these boards.
The Real Don Steele Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 12:51 am
The 9/11 commission was given a budget of about 10% of what Ken Starr had to investigate cum stains on a dress. Yep, your heros in the Bush Administration really spared no expense LOL.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
On the road again
Fri Oct 21, 2005
Ok, I’m going to let the cat out of the bag.
I’m leaving for NYC in a couple hours to interveiw none other than paul isaac jr.
he want to clear the air about a couple things,on the record,and give us somne things off the record. But i’d like to speak ahead of time for him and say that this articvle right here?
“I know 911 was an inside job, the police know its an inside job, and the firemen know it too” Yeah total bulls--- !!!
He never said anything of the sort. I’ve got three different videos of paul having it out with lisa and nothing close to that is ever said. Somebodys stretching the truth and I don’t think its paul. Couple that with the complete lack of compliance on the part of chris petherick of AFP who refuses paul request to remove wingtvs article and every other website on the inter which is touting that article as gospel and you can say that pauls a little upset.
RIGHTFULL SO. I just wanted to vent a little because wingtv hasn”t been on the movements goodside for some time now and this incident further throws their character into question.
Dylan Avery
# May 26 09 12:34 pm Paul Isaac (NYsentinel says:
July 16th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Don’t reply to people like Aunty Semite. He’s just trying to distract people from posting quality information like LRRP did.
Some people have the mental acuity to use the scientific method to prove that the official story is a hoax and some don’t and some do, but are paid by the criminals to pollute threads like this with misinformation.
Theon Lyreal Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Funny how AS appears straight after the Jews’ Ministry of Truth announces it’s going to pay Jews to be pests.
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
disregard what she said and attack her…….
Wow, this sounds too familiar….
The Real Don Steele Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 12:54 am
Coming to the defense of one of your sock puppets… aww how touching.
LRRP 1968 Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Oh come one if not for those whizbangs what would I do for entertainment?
July 16th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
This is who every is quoting:
Who is Victor Thorn and his “Blow-up Doll?” *PIC*
Posted By: ChristopherBollyn
Date: Thursday, 5-Oct-2006 14:45:38
In Response To: Who Is Wing TV? – An Open Letter to Lisa Guliani *PIC* (ChristopherBollyn)
Who is Scott Makufka (a.k.a. Victor Thorn)?
Scott Makufka is a taxi driver in State College, Penn., who is also an aspiring writer. One of his published short stories is called “The Blow-up Doll”, which tells the story of a young boy’s first wet dream.
He now works with Lisa Guliani running an Internet site from his home called WING TV.
WING TV (Makufka and Guliani) clearly have an agenda of attacking 9/11 researchers like Eric Hufschmid and Christopher Bollyn. Who is really behind the attacks on Bollyn and Hufschmid is not clear although Makufka and Guliani certanily appear to be working in tandem with the Anti-Defamation League.
Why is Makufka always wearing a hat? Is he an orthodox Jew like Abramoff? Scott’s son has a Hebrew name – Joshua Adam.
Roger Mahon of the Collegian of State College, Penn., wrote an article about Makufka and Guliani in January 2003.
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/a.....rts-04.asp
Here is some of what Roger Mahon wrote about Scott Makufka and Lisa Guliani:
“Local author Victor Thorn is no stranger to rejection from the rough publishing world. Throughout his writing career, he has received tons of rejection letters from large publishing houses, which, he says, have been reluctant to publish some of his characteristically edgy material.
“For the last two years, Thorn (whose real name is Scott Makufka) and his girlfriend, Lisa Guliani, have published the work of these artists on their online magazine, Babel Magazine (www.babelmagazine.com). [No longer online.]
“This isn’t a cookie-cutter magazine,” added Guliani. “We put the real world on the page. It’s stuff that most places will shun.”
“Instead of sending people rejection letters, we’ll make suggestions instead of disrespecting them like that,” Guliani said, puffing on a cigarette in her and Thorn’s home office, from where they operate the Web site.
“Just recently, Thorn edited and compiled what he feels was the strongest material from Babel’s first year. The result is Rebellious Confessions (published by Black Sheep Books), a book which deals with such taboo subjects as masturbation, misogyny, fetishes and fellatio.
“Thorn’s short story, “The Blow-up Doll”, for instance, tells the story of a young boy’s first wet dream. In another story that appears in the book, “Latex Dreams,” by Stellar, a young woman graphically recounts her first abortion. “Skeletons,” a short story by Jeremy Fleming, relates the tale of a young man turned on by the sound of coughing.
“Thorn and Guliani are happy to get these works into print.
“It gives it more of a legitimacy,” Thorn said.
Scott Makufka of WING TV in his home-made press pass that is found on-line. It certainly lacks legitimacy.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Funny when I explained to Les Jamieson the Wingtv was a false article and they were border line child porn promoters he did have one problem with it.
The when richard gage began his website he copied and pasted my photo from my
speech at st mark yet posted the fake wingtv quote from the fake article.
Theon Lyreal Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Boo hoo
July 16th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Engage farcical field:
I can’t believe those 9/11 mythers, they are a bunch of coincidence theorists.
They don’t even look at history, and the nature of man, they just like to play the probabilities 1 out of a million million.
End field.
Auntie, keep on making us laugh.
Learn some science.
July 16th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
A special message from youtube dsg10p:
” truthers are all a bunch of worthless faggots”
” they should have all died in the towers”
dsg10p
Thank you nysentinel
July 16th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Actually its quite funny
it stop being sad along time ago
Against all enemies forign and domestic
July 16th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Sentinel (8 point tin foilhat)
February 19, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Late Friday night 14 Sept 2001- “I had to be at a meeting that wasn’t on my schedul. I didn’t even mention it to my closest staff. The topic was biological and chemical warfare, which I feared would be the next terrorist move.”Page 357
“I scheduled our first meeting for 11PM., Specifically to keep it secret from the press lest word of it further unsettle an already rattled city. Thats also why I held it at gracie mansion. The sight of these people-some of whom were well known in the scientific community as experts on Biological attack-might trigger concern if they came to the emergency management center. Richie Scheirer, Jerry Haurer, and the Police Commisioner, The fire commisioner, health commisioner Neal Cohen and his assistant commisioner for infectious dideases, Dr. Marcello Layton, OEMs’ Edward Gabriel, and Dario Gonzalez and I spent several hours with people like Dr. Burt Meyers, an infectious disease expert at Mt Sinai Scholl of Medicine, Dr. Martin J. Blaser, the Chairman of NYUs Department of Medice, and Dr. Josh Lederberg, who had won the Nobel prize.” We recieved plans rel;ated to possible attacks involving anthrax, smallpox, botulism, and sarin gas. We established charts for each-how one would detect the first sign, how muchtime each individual would have to act once the symptoms appeared. How would each be delivered?Page 358 (Leadership) Rudolph W Giuliani
They hosted a tribute
Sentinel (8 point tin foilhat)
February 19, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Late Friday night 14 Sept 2001- “I had to be at a meeting that wasn’t on my schedul. I didn’t even mention it to my closest staff. The topic was biological and chemical warfare, which I feared would be the next terrorist move.”Page 357
“I scheduled our first meeting for 11PM., Specifically to keep it secret from the press lest word of it further unsettle an already rattled city. Thats also why I held it at gracie mansion. The sight of these people-some of whom were well known in the scientific community as experts on Biological attack-might trigger concern if they came to the emergency management center. Richie Scheirer, Jerry Haurer, and the Police Commisioner, The fire commisioner, health commisioner Neal Cohen and his assistant commisioner for infectious dideases, Dr. Marcello Layton, OEMs’ Edward Gabriel, and Dario Gonzalez and I spent several hours with people like Dr. Burt Meyers, an infectious disease expert at Mt Sinai Scholl of Medicine, Dr. Martin J. Blaser, the Chairman of NYUs Department of Medice, and Dr. Josh Lederberg, who had won the Nobel prize.” We recieved plans rel;ated to possible attacks involving anthrax, smallpox, botulism, and sarin gas. We established charts for each-how one would detect the first sign, how muchtime each individual would have to act once the symptoms appeared. How would each be delivered?Page 358 (Leadership) Rudolph W Giuliani They hosted a tribute to heros 11 days after the
attacksGot to make you wonder why the rush to build stadiums ?
Sentinel AT LARGE
Reply
July 16th, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Aunty Semite and others here really need to learn logic and deduction, math skills and perhaps a glimmer of independent thought.
To be honest to not have a questioning posture (not a believing posture, just a questioning one) after such evidence is presented is illogical.
I would therefore assume A.S. to be a disinformation plant. Logical once you examine the illogic of the statements made thus far.
If you have ever experimented with Boolean Algebra and take the time to follow the ‘coincidences’ you would note that over 50 ‘chance events’ conspired to make this ultimate failing of civic protection possible. A chance event is as small as ‘Air traffic Controller failed to scramble jet fighters’ or ‘Telephone calls made from 30,000 ft when it’s not possible on a cell at that height’. Given say, a 50/50 chance of each event occurring (although a much smaller in actuality) this puts the ‘odds’ of this event going off in the hijackers favour of billions and billions to one (1,125,899,906,842,624 to 1 to be exact). In addition not one person was dismissed for negligence of the deaths of over 3000 people.
That itself is completely unheard of.
Logic and reason dictate that the official story is impossible. Whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth.
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
translation-
Even though all the worlds leading experts do NOT agree with the lies the truthers spew, I beleive it. If a “dr” agrees with me, they are right, if they dont, and most dont, then they are wrong…
The real reconmarine Reply:
July 16th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
65 of the 67 phone calls from the 4 planes were from airphones.
Thanks for numbers though……
The Real Don Steele Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 12:56 am
Even the ones from planes that had no airphones?
July 16th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
” On August 7, 2001 I was driving through New jersey on my way to camapin apperances on behalph of the republican candideate for New Jersey Governor.” I was explaining my ideas about preparation to Ken Kurson and I specifically cited recent cases of false reports of Anthrax and the awareness that it gave us of how to handle that emergency should it actually occure. A little over a month later, antrax sent through the postal system terrified the entire country. New York City might have been brought to a stand still had our team not practice for precisely that contingency” Pages 63 and 64 Leadership (Rudolph W Giuliani)
Reply
*sorry for the last post // pasting error*
July 16th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
February 23, 2009 at 4:34 pm “I wonered if the Vice President was in charge. Dick Cheney was President Fords Chief of Staff when I first served in the Justice Department; I knew him and had a great confidence in him, so I was relieved to hear a women on the telephone say, Mr Mayor, the Vice President will be on the line.” “My intention was to speak to the Vice president and then immediately relkay what he told me to the people of New York through the press, who were being assembled outside be memebers of Sunnys’ staff. Within a second or two, the line went dead. For the moment, re-establishing that phone link tookup all my attention. So it took some time for me to realize why the phone line was disconnected.” “A few minutes after ten o’clock, we felt and heard a thunderous roar but did not know what had actually occured. Some thought the sound was a new attack, and THE WAY THE GROUND SHOOK (emf-Mine) made it feel like that. I was still on the telephone, hoping to be reconnected, when Joe Esposito yelled, “Its comming Down-everybody down!” “Since I was still in a back cubicle trying to speak to the Vice President, I didn’t hit the deck. In fact, when I heard the words “Tower” and “Down”, I imagined that the radio tower atop the World Trade center had fallen off.” Page 11Rudolph W. GulianiLEADERSHIP with Ken Kurson Miramax books 2002 MEET THE PRESS September 16th 2001: MR. RUSSERT: Let me turn to the events of Tuesday. Where were you when you first learned a plane had struck the World Trade Center? VICE PRES. CHENEY: Well, I was in my office Tuesday morning. Monday, I had been in Kentucky, and the president had been in the White House. Tuesday, our roles were sort of reversed. He was in Florida, and I was in the White House Tuesday morning. And a little before 9, my speechwriter came in. We were going to go over some speeches coming up. And my secretary called in just as we were starting to meet just before 9:00 and said an airplane had hit the World Trade Center, and that was the first one that went in. So we turned on the television and watched for a few minutes, and then actually saw the second plane hit the World Trade Center. And the – as soon as that second plane showed up, that’s what triggered the thought: terrorism, that this was an attack… MR. RUSSERT: You sensed it immediately, “This is deliberate”? VICE PRES. CHENEY: Yeah. Then I convened in my office. Condi Rice came down. Her office is right near mine there in the West Wing. MR. RUSSERT: The national security adviser. VICE PRES. CHENEY: National security adviser, my chief of staff, Scooter Libby, Mary Matalin, who works for me, convened in my office, and we started talking about getting the Counterterrorism Task Force up and operating. I talked with the president. I’d given word to Andy Card’s staff, who is right next door, to get hold of Andy and/or the president and that I wanted to talk to him as soon as they could hook it up. This call came in, and the president knew at this point about that. We discussed a statement that he might make, and the first statement he made describing this as an act of apparent terrorism flowed out of those conversations. While I was there, over the next several minutes, watching developments on the television and as we started to get organized to figure out what to do, my Secret Service agents came in and, under these circumstances, they just move. They don’t say “sir” or ask politely. They came in and said, “Sir, we have to leave immediately, ” and grabbed me and… MR. RUSSERT: Literally grabbed you and moved you? VICE PRES. CHENEY: Yeah. And, you know, your feet touch the floor periodically. But they’re bigger than I am, and they hoisted me up and moved me very rapidly down the hallway, down some stairs, through some doors and down some more stairs into an underground facility under the White House, and, as a matter of fact, it’s a corridor, locked at both ends, and they did that because they had received a report that an airplane was headed for the White House. MR. RUSSERT: This is Flight 77, which had left Dulles. VICE PRES. CHENEY: Which turned out to be Flight 77. It left Dulles, flown west towards Ohio, been captured by the terrorists. They turned off the transponder, which led to a later report that a plane had gone down in Ohio, but it really hadn’t. Of course, then they turned back and headed back towards Washington. As best we can tell, they came initially at the White House and… MR. RUSSERT: The plane actually circled the White House? VICE PRES. CHENEY: Didn’t circle it, but was headed on a track into it. The Secret Service has an arrangement with the F.A.A. They had open lines after the World Trade Center was… MR. RUSSERT: Tracking it by radar. VICE PRES. CHENEY: And when it entered the danger zone and looked like it was headed for the White House was when they grabbed me and evacuated me to the basement. The plane obviously didn’t hit the White House. It turned away and, we think, flew a circle and came back in and then hit the Pentagon. And that’s what the radar track looks like. The result of that – once I got down into the shelter, the first thing I did – there’s a secure phone there. First thing I did was pick up the telephone and call the president again, who was still down in Florida, at that point, and strongly urged him to delay his return.
July 16th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Sentinel (Supporting Evidence)
February 20, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Testemony of Corporation Counsel Mike Hess: “Mike in fact arrived at 7 WTC before it was evacuated, but seeing thatr we weren’t there, he phoned back to cityhall ta ask where we were. He had reached kate, who at the point didn’t know we were at 75 barclay.” “Mike was in 7 world trade center, itself a 47 story building. He had gone to the 23 floor to search for us. Everyone else in the building had already evacuated, and the elevators were inoperatable, so mike began walking down the stairs. When he got to the 8 th floor, tower 1-collapsed, part of it falling on top of the southern part of 7wtc. Luckily, he was in the northern section of the building. Unluckily, he was trapped, as the stairs were impassable. Mike went into an office on the 8th floor, joind only by a fellow from the housing authority. The building was filling up with smoke and dust from the collapsed towers.”
“Together, the men stood at the window for two hours yelling to firefighters below. The firemen kept shouting instructions but told them they couldn’t get up to rescue them, which puzzled mike and his companion because they didn’t know about the towers’ collapse.”
Leadership
Rudolph W Giuliani
July 16th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Sentinel (getting closer to the truth)
March 16, 2009 at 3:21 pm
“The Downtown Lower Manhattan Association and Department of City Planning, in their joint 1993 Plan for Lower Manhattan, proposed RADICALLY CULLING THE HERD OF OLDER BUILDINGS. The suggestion of even broader plazas, in place of OBSOLETE SKYSCRAPPERS, put a positive spin on an OFF-THE RECORD OBSERVATION BY THE DLMA spokesman that in order to stabilize property values, SEVERAL DOZEN DOWNTOWN OFFICE BUILDINGS WOULD SIMPLY HAVE TO BE RAZED.”
page 206 Divided We StandEric Darton(1999)
July 16th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
Sentinel
March 23, 2009 at 2:01 pm
“When I got up to 23(Tower1) it was kind of quiet on the floor–very dark, I saw some firefighters moving around, but not any command post or chiefs. The hallway was full of debris where I was walking, debris about three feet high covering a whole section of the hallway. I was puzzled as to what it was, because I know the plan had hit way above.”
FDNY Lieutenant Mickey Cross
Engine 16
Page 72 Report from Ground Zero
Dennis Smith
“Ten Minutes before the building collapse (North tower), Paddy Brown got on the department radio to say there were many seriously burned victims on the thirty six floor, Then he called “MAYDAY MAYDAY,’ Chief Haydon tried to raise him in return: “Paddy Brown, Paddy Brown!’ But no one ever heard from him again. It was reported later that somebody warned him: ” We gotta get out, Paddy.” Paddy Only Replied, “We gotta get these people out.”(Author Dennis Smith)Page 266Report From Ground Zero
July 16th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Paul Isaac (Sentinel)
April 21, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Day 17 September 28 2001
“Standing next to ten&ten is sergeant Heaton of the Buffalo unit of the National Guard. He was activated from his job in a beer distributor, and his employer gave him one days pay. He is staying on a ship tied up on the Jersey side of the river, the USS Comfort, “It is inconvenient” , he admits. ” I have a wife and children, but I think of what evryone went through down here, and I will never complain.” “The Sergeant tells me that he personally stopped AN ARAB man on the site, taking photgraphs, and found that he was carrying THREE PIECES OF FALSE IDENTIFICATION AND TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS IN CASH, All of wich he confiscated. The man bolted, but was later found fifteen minutes later with yet another camera, taking more pictures.”(Author)Page 254Report From Ground Zero
July 16th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
f---ing worthless spammer.
July 16th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
Why don’t the bastards admit they attacked their own country for financial, propaganda and national security reasons. That makes it ok, right?
Video clearly shows all three wtc’s being BLOWN TO HELL FROM THE TOP DOWN. I will never forget what my country did to it’s own people.
July 16th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Luckily, it was not the 50,000 they were hoping for.
July 17th, 2009 at 2:40 am
I don’t believe the official version – but, assuming a government conspiracy for the moment, why would ‘they’ want anything more than two planes crashing into the WTC’s? Surely that would have been enough of a spectacular?
July 17th, 2009 at 2:49 am
This is a scam just like Apollo 11 The only difference is that it took around 4-DECADES to crak the story on that, but this baby is all cooked up nicely in less then 8! Talk about bad work guys:)
July 17th, 2009 at 4:07 am
When you grow up do you want to be a fag skel sucking horse cock?
Cause your a stinking used douchebag
“stick a needle in my eye”
how about you doing it for me pussy bitch
July 17th, 2009 at 4:10 am
I know you definately like hanging with les and luke and love having the pedophiles up your tight asshole all the time.
Thats why your here fighting for them douchebag.
So when youre done getting your ass gang bang by the crew step up to get smacked down
July 17th, 2009 at 4:14 am
Now back to 911
if theres a plume cloud at the top of the building as its falling
thats a very big indecation of an explosive charge.
Grade school s--- man
July 17th, 2009 at 6:18 am
Youtube search: les jamieson pedophile
google: les jamieson fraud
google: les jamieson dim bulbs
google: luke rudkowski louie bee
It seems les and luke are being accused of massive embezzlement of thousands
of dollars from donations meant for dying first responders.
It seems that mr daniel sanjata doesnt seem to be aware of this or I believe he would
dis associate himself from these people. Mr sanjata will be participating in the 911 festivities this
hosted by Les and Luke
July 17th, 2009 at 6:25 am
Do you believe that We Are Change should remain a non-profit organization, rather than an S Corp(for profit)?
Submitted by nepawac on Mon, 07/06/2009 – 15:44.
Non-profit all the way
70% (31 votes)
S Corp
11% (5 votes)
What’s the difference?
5% (2 votes)
Don’t care
14% (6 votes)
Total votes: 44
» 1 comment
We are change for profit…the next generation…all without a vote
July 17th, 2009 at 6:36 am
(NYsentinel) Says:
July 9th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
paul isaac NYsentinel on June 19th, 2009 at 1:56 pm:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
lgf: Red and Green Anti-Semetism
Max L 12/15/2003 11:22PM
“Another wonderful eye-opener Charles. Check out this hate filled post I got on my site, I will edit out the foul words”.
“Judebtot- you are a very sick person.erhaps someday YOU will be raped to death in prison like your terroris hero Irv Rubin. That would be nice. F#$% you you evil kike. You are a pestilence on the world. Go Die.” {2003-12-1600:1736} kidsjistainright [at] Yahoo.ca
Oh, heres another one for the man who wants answers.
#21 zulubaby 12-16-2003 12:29AM PST
Max L (#12)
“I just realized something! That E-mail address, kidsjistainright [at] yahoo.ca is DYLAN AVERY aka abe smoling aka shlom katz and a multitude of other jewish sounding names. HE IS A RABID JEW HATER and has posted tons of vicious slander about Charles on NAZIMEDIA. He even posted something about reporting (SNITCHING) me and Charles and deathberg to the Hate Crimes Branch of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. (Aside to Dylan Avery, if you’re reading this, it doesn’t say zulubaby on my passport, ya freak)”
July 17th, 2009 at 6:38 am
[...] More here [...]
July 17th, 2009 at 6:47 am
» Login or register to post comments
The John Feal Letter
This is the original letter sent to John Feal:
February 13, 2009
John Feal
President and Founder
Feal Good Foundation
144 Shenandoah Blvd
Nesconset, New York 11767
Feal13@aol.com
Dear Mr. Feal,
I respectfully request to see all of Feal Good Foundation’s accounting book’s, including all donations both cash and check, operating expenses, payroll, deductibility percentage, loans, all We Are Change donations, principal benefactors, grants and bequests, (2002 to present). This is afforded to me, by law, since you are a 501 ( c ) 3 tax exempt organization. I have taken the Liberty upon myself to notify other people as some times things get lost and I wouldn‘t want that to happen.
Very truly yours,
Pasquale Di Lillo
Cc: Heather La Mastro
Manny Badillo Victim Family Member
Dallas Carter
Where is the money Luke Rudkowski?
Luke where is the money from 2006, 2007 and 2008? Why does the money go to your personal account? Why when we speak of the money you get all shady an defensive? Why still no treasurers report? What happened to transparency? What do YOU HAVE TO HIDE? You never seem to answer anyone’s questions on the money tip. You collected between 85 and 100,000 thousand dollars. WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THAT CASH…A detailed report with reciept’s would be a good start I demand an answer!!!~
Pat WeAreChange Pennsylvania
July 17th, 2009 at 6:48 am
Do you believe that We Are Change should remain a non-profit organization, rather than an S Corp(for profit)?
Submitted by nepawac on Mon, 07/06/2009 – 15:44.
Non-profit all the way
70% (31 votes)
S Corp
11% (5 votes)
What’s the difference?
5% (2 votes)
Don’t care
14% (6 votes)
Total votes: 44
» 1 comment
We are change for profit…the next generation…all without a vote
July 17th, 2009 at 6:52 am
WEDNESDAY, JUNE 17, 2009
More Questions For Luke Rudkowski
Luke, what are you doing with the money? Again more question come up. After Luke raised money for his legal defense fund which was originally meant for him and two others this mysteriously turned into the “Save Luke from getting butt raped in prison fund”. Well I did a search on the New York State Court Unified Court System at http://iapps.courts.state.ny.u.....dantSearch searched for Lukasz Rudkowski. Since Lukasz was able to raise $4k for the legal defense fund. I had to find this a website that had the wearechange NY legal defense fund chip-in widget on another website cause again Luke is trying to cover his tracks. why does he have a legal aide lawyer? What has he done with money he raised for a lawyer? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO STOP THE HERO WORSHIP AND REALLY WONDER WHY WE ARE ASKING THESE QUESTIONS!! HERE IS YOUR PROOF 9/11 SHEEPLE.
Posted by Louie Bee at 6/17/2009 04:46:00 AM
Labels: funds, luke rudkowski, transparency, wearechange
0 comments:
Post a Comment
July 17th, 2009 at 6:55 am
DefendantName:Rudkowski, Lukasz
Birth Year:1986
NYSID:5608516J
Status: gay twoofer
Charge Detail Disposition/Sentence
PL 140.10 0A
**TOP CHARGE** B Misdemeanor, 1 count, Not an arrest charge, Arraignment charge
Description Crim Trespass 3rd:enclsd Prop
Next AppearanceDate:July 27, 2009
Court:New York Criminal Court
911truth are liars | Homepage | 05.27.09 – 2:08 am | #
July 17th, 2009 at 7:03 am
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel) Says:
July 17th, 2009 at 6:52 am
WEDNESDAY, JUNE 17, 2009
More Questions For Luke Rudkowski
Luke, what are you doing with the money? Again more question come up. After Luke raised money for his legal defense fund which was originally meant for him and two others this mysteriously turned into the “Save Luke from getting butt raped in prison fund”. Well I did a search on the New York State Court Unified Court System at http://iapps.courts.state.ny.u…..dantSearch searched for Lukasz Rudkowski. Since Lukasz was able to raise $4k for the legal defense fund. I had to find this a website that had the wearechange NY legal defense fund chip-in widget on another website cause again Luke is trying to cover his tracks. why does he have a legal aide lawyer? What has he done with money he raised for a lawyer? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO STOP THE HERO WORSHIP AND REALLY WONDER WHY WE ARE ASKING THESE QUESTIONS!! HERE IS YOUR PROOF 9/11 SHEEPLE.
Posted by Louie Bee at 6/17/2009 04:46:00 AM
Labels: funds, luke rudkowski, transparency, wearechange
0 comments:
Post a Comment
Reply
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel) Submit on July 17, 2009 9:55:11 AM EDT:
DefendantName:Rudkowski, Lukasz
Birth Year:1986
NYSID:5608516J
Status: gay twoofer
Charge Detail Disposition/Sentence
PL 140.10 0A
**TOP CHARGE** B Misdemeanor, 1 count, Not an arrest charge, Arraignment charge
Description Crim Trespass 3rd:enclsd Prop
Next AppearanceDate:July 27, 2009
Court:New York Criminal Court
911truth are liars | Homepage | 05.27.09 – 2:08 am | #
new comment is submiting, please wait a comment…
Leave a Reply
July 17th, 2009 at 7:10 am
Louie Bee
http://www.crotchshotradio.com
May 24, 2009
We feel extremely reluctant to discuss the current situation with “WE ARE CHANGE”, but it needs to be addressed if we are going to move forward in this movement. This situation has been extremely disruptive, and we hope we can all come to a resolution in a civil and honest manner. It should be known that I’ve tried to deal with this in a private setting, hoping to shield the rest of the movement from this unnecessary drama. However, Luke Rudkowski has put us in a position where that is no longer possible. It should be also noted that Luke Rudkowski that over the past few months, the following has occurred:
Luke Rudkowski routed all donations totaling over $100,000 (according to the chip-in flash application gauge) to his PRIVATE BANK ACCOUNT (just like Les Jamison of NY911truth did). Luke Rudkowski has 100% control of donations that come to We are change. Luke Rudkowski has yet to give a real detailed financial report in two years which is supposed to be provided according to voted on bylaws.
Luke Rudkowski has made slanderous statements regarding the integrity and allegiance of myself and others and accused us of being cointelpro. And the only crime we committed was asking questions and demanding answers about the bank account. Luke Rudkowski’s false and slanderous accusations have given this movement a black eye. The punishment for asking questions to Luke Rudkowski is chapter deletion from main site without a democratic group vote. We will not allow Luke Rudkowski to become judge, jury and executioner in the case against devoted members.
Luke Rudkowski has refused and ignored any efforts by us and other members of WE ARE CHANGE to deal with this situation. Luke Rudkowski has ignored our request to see records. Instead Luke Rudkowski just accuses people of being negative or trying to cause the group to split. We are change only just recently said they have become a registered LLC. No proof has yet to be shown.
Luke Rudkowski has publically stated that he is the steering committee. Luke Rudkowski only surrounds himself with new people who will not disagree with him and whoever wants to stay in the cool crowd. Luke Rudkowski has also stated that we are change shouldn’t be a democratic group and all decisions should come from him and him alone. Luke Rudkowski has allowed all the great things he has accomplished to go to his head.
And we won’t even get into how Luke Rudkowski screwed Tom Foti, one of our most active and dedicated members, when Tom questioned Luke Rudkowski.
We feel that actions speak louder than words. We will not stoop to calling Luke Rudkowski an infiltrator. But we will bring the proper attention to his actions. This needs to be resolved in a way where everyone in the group has a voice. This isn’t a dictatorship. It’s an activist organization that will only prosper through teamwork. Personally, we have nothing to hide and we are not afraid of airing this situation out in the proper forum. Also the “WE ARE CHANGE” that we have come to know is no more. We believe in working with in the law to bring change.
Lastly, Luke Rudkowski had the same problem with Les Jamieson of NY911truth. According to Luke Rudkowski, Les did the same exact thing to him. THAT’S WHAT YOU CALL A HYPOCRITE!!!!
Read his open letter at http://www.wearechange.org/ny911truth/index.html in the event that this link is disabled we have taken screen shots to prove it.
Signed,
We Are Change Latino & We Are Change Pennsylvania, Inc.
UPDATE
WE ARE CHANGE NYC disabled the link here are the screenshots
July 17th, 2009 at 8:49 am
Paul Issac: Proof positive that shills and trolls get paid by the word.
Auntie Semite: Too ignorant to deserve serious consideration
LRRP: Bravo! Finally someone who stayed awake in physics class!
July 17th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Wrong: I do it free
With Honor and Pride
I guess youre all broke up about hearing youre a follower of frauds and crooks playing truth and justice.
Dont cry
just lie
July 17th, 2009 at 9:36 am
I guess the ” SS” cant read?
Maybe if know how too read instead of acting like a dumb ass
he might read how luke is misreprenting himself and ripping off the public
or how les is a fraud and pedophile lover
So nice of alex jones to have an embezzler as a cronie
Go back and read the post jerkoff
Alex Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 10:28 am
You sound like a psychopath posting one message after another after another. You’re not helping your own cause by spamming so relentlessly.
MagnusXO Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 11:01 am
He sucks.
July 17th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Les jamieson never has a problem hanging with perverts and kiddie porn freaks
1. Wingtv ( the blow up doll )
2. Dr Pepper ( the self manifested child ) as alledged by paula gloria
July 17th, 2009 at 10:52 am
Or being a police informer
I remember the day he would ask if i could get someone
to run background check on several people.
He wanted info on tom weiss
he seemed to a nemesis to les
July 17th, 2009 at 11:01 am
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel) Says:
July 16th, 2009 at 8:28 am
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel) Says:
July 3rd, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel)
June 30, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Note: forwarded message attached. Dec. 8, 2006
Knowing how sensitive for example the generally absent “9/11 Truth” activist Joe Carranza is about spelling, I want to correct a typo in my attached e-mail exposing Les Jamieson for the total fraud that he is. In the last paragraph the word “brownshorts”, referring to Geoffrey Blank’s armed thugs, should read “brownshirts.” Indeed, if the wacko, photographed “squat- ter” Carl Rosenstein had worn brown shorts, his club would have been visible.
As far as reports of Frank Morales’ involvement in hard drug use and trafficking are con- cerned, I would think, since Jamieson presumably knows nothing about this matter (unless he is also involved) that, if only to protect himself legally, he follow the advice that he some- times whispers to me and to keep his mouth shut. Reports of drug use and trafficking involv- ing St. Mark’s-in-the-Bowery Assistant Pastor Morales should be investgated by the Episco- pal Church and by law enforcement. It’s bad enough that, in inviting Tarpley to speak, “9/11 Truth” was host to man associated with a convicted felon like Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.
Tom Weiss – Member, St. Mark’s in-the-Bowery Church.
July 17th, 2009 at 11:03 am
” UNLESS HE IS ALSO INVOLVED ”
WOE !!!
July 17th, 2009 at 11:23 am
I DONT MAKE A DIME FOR MY TIME
I DO IT FOR FREE – DUMMY !!!
July 17th, 2009 at 11:26 am
I dont have an agenda
im just having fun
July 17th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Arent you having fun ?
July 17th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Thats right mother f---er
im here to make it rain !!!
Best f---in believe that
f---ing skelz mock the dead then expect to treated like a f---ing celebrity
July 17th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Didnt you read the “new” 911 truth that was never seen to this date?
No.
You only hated on me cause I exposed corruption and perverts
Im guilty of bringing truth
Then more truth
Yeah im psycho
Now you know how the corporates found it
so easy to give us 911
Cause when people started taking notice of the
situation before 911 And began sounding the alarm
Morons were always on hand to hate on the message
they were to busy enjoying themselves in the sun
then 911 occured
Its the same s--- with the bulls--- 911 truth movement
the same people who brought you 911 are controlling the
bulls--- truth movement
Only collaborators would be upset by the number of outings on this
board
Think before you drink
July 17th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
A real treat:
You leave my son alone! OK, he may be a pansy, but I was never a good role model! It’s not his fault!
So what if he hooked up with Sabrina two weeks after his best friend and her boyfriend, Dan Wallace, turned into a sack of coal in bed with her! And so what if she broke up with him recently because he still lives in my basement!
He’s still my pansy boy!
And so what if he’s stealing money! So what the IRS might have more than a few questions for him! So what if the NY Attorney General’s office is likely to go after him, just like they’re now going after the Fealgood Foundation!
He’s still my pansy boy! You people leave him alone! And yes, my name is
Zbigniew Rudkowski | 05.25.09 – 4:28 pm | #
July 17th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
That was a f---ing classic
” I Suck?”
Good that means im doing my job right!!!
We dont medals
We get results
July 17th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
MagnusXO Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 11:01 am
He sucks.
Reply
SUCK THIS !!!!!
July 17th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
“For instance, apparently the PayPal link on WAC leads directly to his personal bank account. Of course we all doubt the $100,000 figure, but at least for two years, he’s had his little soldiers (read “Moonies”) down at Ground Zero at least peripherally begging for donations. There are a lot of suckers out there, and it’s probably the case that there is a number of people who have thrown the organization $10 or $20 (the donations are for first responders, after all!). Actually, the nature of PayPal might help in this – as it’s really ease just to click through to a small donation.”
REALLY ???
July 17th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Richard Gage Is Still Begging for Dollars – JREF Forum
Richard Gage Is Still Begging for Dollars 9/11 Conspiracy Theories. .. thousands of dollars and thousands of hours to AE911Truth. ..
forums.randi.org/showthread.php – Options
July 17th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Families, First
Responders
and Survivors
Concerned
Citizens
Thank You for Your Donation!
WE NEED YOUR HELP TODAY!
Become a member of NYC CAN by donating $25 or more and help us move one step closer to the answers every American deserves. With minimal overhead, your contribution pays for our well trained, professional staff of petitioners and for the marketing effort required to ensure our success in the referendum for the independent investigation of September 11 that every American deserves.
You can also mail a check made payable to NYC CAN to us at this address:
NYC CAN
1173A Second Avenue, Suite 155
New York, NY 10065
Remember. Thinkers think and talker talk. Patriots ACT.
July 17th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
YouTube – NYCCAN Video
Related Videos. Investigate 911 – NYCCAN .. NYCCAN – Vote for Answers. 299 views …. Google: les jamieson fraud. Google: les jamieson dim bulbs ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch – Options
YouTube – 9/11 Truth Petitions
NYCCAN (NYC Coalition for Accountability Now) @ http://www.nyccan.org/ The Family …. Les Jamieson talks about the 30000 signature milestone for NYC 9/11 ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch – Options
NYC Ballot Initiative relaunched as NYCCAN – The New York City …
NYCCAN also offers a new email address for further feedback, ….. “Les Jamieson started the ballot initiative along with Father Frank Morales at St Marks ..
http://www.911blogger.com/node/19796 – Options
July 17th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
MagnusXO Reply:
July 17th, 2009 at 11:01 am
He sucks.
Reply
SUCK THIS !!!!!
Reply
SUCK THAT !!!
July 17th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Top reasons why 9/11 Truth activists will NOT support the current ballot initiative.
1 – The initiative itself appears flawed in such a way as to almost guarantee its failure. The initiative itself demands that $100,000 annually be paid to each of the 9 specified commissioners.
Quote:
“The Commission shall have a duty to maintain the number of Commissioners at no less than nine and to fill vacancies promptly.”
Additionally, as many as 15 may be appointed:
Quote:
“…and others to be appointed by majority vote of the Commission members to bring the Commission up to as many as 15 members”
These figures necessitate a base annual budget of $900,000 to $1,500,000, while the 5 year budget itself is quoted as $50 million.
Failure to raise this amount will allow the organizers of this event to essentially hold the initiative hostage, essentially shelving it for an indefinite period of time, and preventing its execution.
Quote:
“The work of the Commission will commence upon the expected realization of the full funds specified in our anticipated budget.”
2 – The participation of Edgar Mitchell as a commissioner. Edgar Mitchell is a well-known advocate of the pseudo sciences, including his many public initiatives, writings and claims associated with UFOs, extraterrestrial ‘visitations’ and his personal experience with ESP/clairvoyance.
It is my opinion that the 9/11 Truth movement has already been negatively stigmatized by the mainstream media as a result of many of these advocates of pseudo-sciences and outlandish theories. The inclusion of a known UFO / clairvoyance advocate to the commission itself appears to be an intentional attempt to poison the well and associate 9/11 truth with tin-foil hat type conspiracy theorists.
3 – The participation and control of this initiative remains in the hands of a known 9/11 Truth disruptor who has explicitly and implicitly promoted the work of disruptors to this movement.
Examples:
- Les Jamieson organized and sponsored events featuring the following guests and/or content:
o Judy Wood – advocate of the ‘space beams’ theory.
o Jim Fetzer – advocate of the ‘space beams’ theory, as well as many other discredited and debunked theories.
o Afred Webre – UFO advocate
o Nico Haupt – serial slanderer of 9/11 Truth activists, and promoter of the no-planes theory. Mr. Haupt is best known for highly inflammatory videos that include content accusing prominent 9/11 Truth activists of pedophilia, the use of excrement in conjunction with 9/11 imagery, slanderous accusations and innuendo, nazi imagery – including his self-proscribed persona NicoHitler. Mr. Haupt has also led disruptions and assaults of 9/11 activists at ground zero.
o Paula Gloria – promoter of Webfairy and Nico Haupt. Ms. Gloria was most recently invited by Les Jamieson to speak at St Marks church in NYC, despite her known reputation for posting/promoting the videos of self-described “transgression artists” that seeks to label prominent 9/11 Truth activists as members of a known Al Qaeda media cell. A recent video called for “the gassing of victim’s families.”
o Rick Siegel’s film “9/11 Eyewitness” during a live event featuring David Ray Griffin. This content was inserted into the program without the knowledge and approval of Dr. Griffin. Mr. Siegel is better known for his website 911Researchers.com which has been responsible for virulent attacks against victim’s family members and 9/11 Truth activists, while promoting no-planes theories, mini-nukes at the WTC and a virtual whose-who of 9/11 Truth disruptors and disinformation activists.
o Jimmy Walters, who appeared at St Marks church at a 9/11 Truth event and showed a film focusing on the sexual habits, homosexuality, bestiality and sexual perversions (in detail) of members of the Bush administration. Many of those in attendance left, appalled at the content being presented at a Les Jamieson promoted 9/11 event.
o Webster Tarpley, who used the platform provided by Mr. Jamieson to accuse prominent 9/11 activists (e.g., Cosmos of 911TruthAction) of being terrorists and government agents. Photos of each activist were projected on a screen while Tarpley accused each of being Islamic terrorists / Chechen rebels and cointelpro activists. Mr. Jamieson – organizer of the event – present during these attacks – did nothing to halt the presentation – and has since offered no apologies to the activists slandered and defamed.
o The distribution and sale of the highly anti-Semitic magazine “Criminal Politics.” This magazine featured Dr. David Ray Griffin on its cover, with the headline accusing Jews of being responsible for the pedophile scandal in the Catholic church.
o Various debunked theories ( pods under the plane, the hijackers are still alive, etc etc)
It seems incredible to me that such prominent activists as Jon Gold would YET AGAIN seek to give the benefit of the doubt, and the public spotlight, to Mr. Jamieson after the repeated disruptions and betrayal of our trust.
The idea that we should all rally behind an initiative that has language contained therein inherently designed to financially stall a citizens’ investigation, while placing spokesperson powers and administrative powers in the hands of someone PROVEN to be untrustworthy is, frankly, irresponsible and unfathomable.
I want you all to consider the cost of failure. I want you all to consider the consequences of a high-profile 9/11 initiative, endorsed by many of our most high profile victim’s family groups and first responders, suddenly falling prey to the scrutinizing eyes of the media – with Mr. Jamieson in the spotlight representing our interests.
What are the stakes here?
Does your advocacy and support of this initiative protect it from those who seek to use it to shame and discredit us all? Just how?
Just HOW would Jon Gold PREVENT Les Jamieson from speaking and representing this initiative?
Jon Gold is disingenuous when he claims that TruthMove and WAC and ny911Truth are simply experiencing ‘bad blood’ over ‘history’ that he himself fails to define That is simply not intellectually honest.
Let me define that history for you. Many of us have DIRECTLY been attacked by those you now seek to indirectly empower to lead an investigation into 9/11. Many of us have been the target of virulent and vicious videos that label us AL Qaeda – including calls for violence against us – created and promoted by the VERY SAME PEOPLE LES JAMIESON INVITES TO HIS CHURCH TO REPRESENT THIS MOVEMENT.
UFO advocates? Anti-Semites? Space beams? no-planes on 9/11?
I guess some people never learn.
I cannot speak to what lies in the heart of Les Jamieson. At best he can be described as showing profoundly bad judgment – and is not to be trusted.
At worst – it is intentional.
Neither is an acceptable option when considering a citizen’s investigation into 9/11.
Truthmove forums
July 17th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Paul Isaac (NYsentinel) Says:
July 5th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
Comment from you tube video of Evolution of 9/11 Truth at St Mark’s posted by: Paula Gloria
“This rare gem was passed to Paula Gloria by Joe Friendly and upon viewing got her interested in understanding not why Nico Haupt was a lunatic but what incredibly deep unmet need was at the basis of the tragic expressions that turned purportedly pro-investigation people to march lock-step along a predetermined understanding of what happened technically to bring down the towers during 9/11. A few weeks after this turbulent meeting Dan Wallace died (or was killed) and “We Are Change” initiated when Luke and Les Jamieson, the leader of 9/11 “Truth” parted ways. The newly formed “We Are Change” never met at St Marks and started to have a physical meeting space at Warren 12 while Les Jamison, under the watchful eye of Frank Morales the then Reverend of St Marks, remained at St. Marks initially organizing and raising money. They illegally indicated people could have a tax write-off for donations to a political cause putting St Mark’s 501c3 at legal risk when raising money for the 9/11 Ballot initiative designed by Carl Person. This initiative had the all important Office of City Attorney General included so that the required funding plan could be included; without it it would never fly. Whoever wanted a real investigation to NOT happen realized the danger that Office of City Attorney General presented for not only 911 Truth but many other urgent wrongs, including our financial crisis. Thus a certain Dr Pepper of shady background was put on the project to destroy it. This was done by seducing Frank Morales and Les Jamieson the leader of 9/11 “Truth” with money IF the critical office of City Attorney General was removed from the ballot initiative (rendering it impossible to pass through the legal requirements). It would never have a chance. This was done against the wishes of the steering committee, proving yet again that all 9/11 truth at St Marks is done only by Les Jamieson and Frank Morales who despite being “retired” as Reverend still seems to be at St Marks running 9/11 meetings behind the scenes with a cadre of supporters. It is worthy of note that Dr Pepper was accused of pedophilia in the Northeast (can someone out there give me more details?) and such accusations are supported by material in his own book “The Self Motivated Child”, showing he was perfect for a job that gives earnest and innocent truth seekers an eternally limited form of 9/11 truth. Why do such practices still continue with questionable responsibility at St Marks under the hand of Frank Morales and Les Jamieson ensuring that real truth and the ensuing freedom that comes about in truth’s presence never develops?
What is happening to 9/11 “Truth” at St Marks today?”
Comment from Paula Gloria on “evolution at st marks”
July 17th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
o Jimmy Walters, who appeared at St Marks church at a 9/11 Truth event and showed a film focusing on the sexual habits, homosexuality, bestiality and sexual perversions (in detail) of members of the Bush administration. Many of those in attendance left, appalled at the content being presented at a Les Jamieson promoted 9/11 event.
WTF !!!???
July 17th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
In a Church !!!???
July 17th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
IT WAS DONE BY MOSSAD/CIA.ITALIAN PRESIDENT FRANCESCO COSSIGA.Ex-Italian President: Intel Agencies Know 9/11 An Inside Job
Man who set up Operation Gladio tells Italy’s largest newspaper attacks were run by CIA, Mossad
July 17th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
” SATAN LAUGHING SPREADS HIS WINGS”
July 17th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Go to “cuttingedge.org”. Then go to Directory of all News Articles. Then find the one that says “smoking gun proof the illuminati took down the towers”. The deck of cards shows two pictures, one of the WTC hits exactly as they happened, and one of the Pentagon with the fire on the one side exactly as IT happened. And remember, this deck of cards, called the “Illuminati World Domination Game” came out 7 years BEFORE 9/11. How more “in your face” can you get?
July 18th, 2009 at 7:12 am
Correction : “the top ten reason” posted by truthaction.org
my apologize on the mistake
Top reasons why 9/11 Truth activists will NOT support the current ballot initiative.
1 – The initiative itself appears flawed in such a way as to almost guarantee its failure. The initiative itself demands that $100,000 annually be paid to each of the 9 specified commissioners.
Quote:
“The Commission shall have a duty to maintain the number of Commissioners at no less than nine and to fill vacancies promptly.”
Additionally, as many as 15 may be appointed:
Quote:
“…and others to be appointed by majority vote of the Commission members to bring the Commission up to as many as 15 members”
These figures necessitate a base annual budget of $900,000 to $1,500,000, while the 5 year budget itself is quoted as $50 million.
Failure to raise this amount will allow the organizers of this event to essentially hold the initiative hostage, essentially shelving it for an indefinite period of time, and preventing its execution.
Quote:
“The work of the Commission will commence upon the expected realization of the full funds specified in our anticipated budget.”
2 – The participation of Edgar Mitchell as a commissioner. Edgar Mitchell is a well-known advocate of the pseudo sciences, including his many public initiatives, writings and claims associated with UFOs, extraterrestrial ‘visitations’ and his personal experience with ESP/clairvoyance.
It is my opinion that the 9/11 Truth movement has already been negatively stigmatized by the mainstream media as a result of many of these advocates of pseudo-sciences and outlandish theories. The inclusion of a known UFO / clairvoyance advocate to the commission itself appears to be an intentional attempt to poison the well and associate 9/11 truth with tin-foil hat type conspiracy theorists.
3 – The participation and control of this initiative remains in the hands of a known 9/11 Truth disruptor who has explicitly and implicitly promoted the work of disruptors to this movement.
Examples:
- Les Jamieson organized and sponsored events featuring the following guests and/or content:
o Judy Wood – advocate of the ‘space beams’ theory.
o Jim Fetzer – advocate of the ‘space beams’ theory, as well as many other discredited and debunked theories.
o Afred Webre – UFO advocate
o Nico Haupt – serial slanderer of 9/11 Truth activists, and promoter of the no-planes theory. Mr. Haupt is best known for highly inflammatory videos that include content accusing prominent 9/11 Truth activists of pedophilia, the use of excrement in conjunction with 9/11 imagery, slanderous accusations and innuendo, nazi imagery – including his self-proscribed persona NicoHitler. Mr. Haupt has also led disruptions and assaults of 9/11 activists at ground zero.
o Paula Gloria – promoter of Webfairy and Nico Haupt. Ms. Gloria was most recently invited by Les Jamieson to speak at St Marks church in NYC, despite her known reputation for posting/promoting the videos of self-described “transgression artists” that seeks to label prominent 9/11 Truth activists as members of a known Al Qaeda media cell. A recent video called for “the gassing of victim’s families.”
o Rick Siegel’s film “9/11 Eyewitness” during a live event featuring David Ray Griffin. This content was inserted into the program without the knowledge and approval of Dr. Griffin. Mr. Siegel is better known for his website 911Researchers.com which has been responsible for virulent attacks against victim’s family members and 9/11 Truth activists, while promoting no-planes theories, mini-nukes at the WTC and a virtual whose-who of 9/11 Truth disruptors and disinformation activists.
o Jimmy Walters, who appeared at St Marks church at a 9/11 Truth event and showed a film focusing on the sexual habits, homosexuality, bestiality and sexual perversions (in detail) of members of the Bush administration. Many of those in attendance left, appalled at the content being presented at a Les Jamieson promoted 9/11 event.
o Webster Tarpley, who used the platform provided by Mr. Jamieson to accuse prominent 9/11 activists (e.g., Cosmos of 911TruthAction) of being terrorists and government agents. Photos of each activist were projected on a screen while Tarpley accused each of being Islamic terrorists / Chechen rebels and cointelpro activists. Mr. Jamieson – organizer of the event – present during these attacks – did nothing to halt the presentation – and has since offered no apologies to the activists slandered and defamed.
o The distribution and sale of the highly anti-Semitic magazine “Criminal Politics.” This magazine featured Dr. David Ray Griffin on its cover, with the headline accusing Jews of being responsible for the pedophile scandal in the Catholic church.
o Various debunked theories ( pods under the plane, the hijackers are still alive, etc etc)
It seems incredible to me that such prominent activists as Jon Gold would YET AGAIN seek to give the benefit of the doubt, and the public spotlight, to Mr. Jamieson after the repeated disruptions and betrayal of our trust.
The idea that we should all rally behind an initiative that has language contained therein inherently designed to financially stall a citizens’ investigation, while placing spokesperson powers and administrative powers in the hands of someone PROVEN to be untrustworthy is, frankly, irresponsible and unfathomable.
I want you all to consider the cost of failure. I want you all to consider the consequences of a high-profile 9/11 initiative, endorsed by many of our most high profile victim’s family groups and first responders, suddenly falling prey to the scrutinizing eyes of the media – with Mr. Jamieson in the spotlight representing our interests.
What are the stakes here?
Does your advocacy and support of this initiative protect it from those who seek to use it to shame and discredit us all? Just how?
Just HOW would Jon Gold PREVENT Les Jamieson from speaking and representing this initiative?
Jon Gold is disingenuous when he claims that TruthMove and WAC and ny911Truth are simply experiencing ‘bad blood’ over ‘history’ that he himself fails to define That is simply not intellectually honest.
Let me define that history for you. Many of us have DIRECTLY been attacked by those you now seek to indirectly empower to lead an investigation into 9/11. Many of us have been the target of virulent and vicious videos that label us AL Qaeda – including calls for violence against us – created and promoted by the VERY SAME PEOPLE LES JAMIESON INVITES TO HIS CHURCH TO REPRESENT THIS MOVEMENT.
UFO advocates? Anti-Semites? Space beams? no-planes on 9/11?
I guess some people never learn.
I cannot speak to what lies in the heart of Les Jamieson. At best he can be described as showing profoundly bad judgment – and is not to be trusted.
At worst – it is intentional.
Neither is an acceptable option when considering a citizen’s investigation into 9/11.
July 18th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
For Dan Wallace (RIP)
July 18th, 2009 at 9:13 pm
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