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Cheney, Neocons Considered Killing Americans in Pretext to Attack Iran
Kurt Nimmo
Infowars
July 31, 2008
In the video here, taped at the Campus Progress journalism conference earlier this month, the Pulitzer-Prize winning journalist Seymour Hersh reveals how the neocons convened around Dick Cheney and brainstormed ways to kick off World War IV, as they fondly call their pet project to take out the Muslims and foment a contrived “clash of civilizations.”
According to Hersh, this meeting occurred after the neocons failed miserably to stage a rehashed version of the Gulf of Tonkin incident in the Strait of Hormuz, mostly because it is no longer 1964 and such Big Lies — thanks to the internet and bloggers — are far more difficult to float. “For all I know, our Navy was shooting at whales out there,” quipped LBJ about the imaginary act of North Vietnamese boats supposedly attacking U.S. ships, leading to the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution and undeclared war in Southeast Asia, ultimately resulting in the death of nearly 60,000 Americans and around 3 million Southeast Asians.
In an exclusive Think Progress story, we learn the meeting took place in Cheney’s office and the subject on the table was “how to create a casus belli between Tehran and Washington,” part of an ongoing effort to provide an excuse to attack Iran. “There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war,” Hersh explains. “The one that interested me the most was why don’t we build — we in our shipyard — build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up.”
Hersh would have us believe this scenario did not play out because “you can’t have Americans killing Americans,” an absurd explanation considering the fact the attacks of September 11 were just that — “Americans killing Americans,” a calculated and cold-blooded act of mass murder carried out by elements in the U.S. government as a “new Pearl Harbor,” a cynical pretext to launch the “war on terror,” now grinding into its seventh year.
Ominously, these “ideas” hark back to Operation Northwoods, the JSC plan to stage a false flag terror event — or a number of events — designed to provide a pretext to invade Cuba and take out Fidel Castro. Such “ideas” included “friendly Cubans” attacking the U.S. base at Guantanamo, shooting down a drone disguised as a chartered civil airliner and blaming it on Cuba, inciting riots and staging terror attacks in Miami, and other terrorist acts. Fortunately, then Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara, put a kibosh to this insane plan.
More recently, in January, 2003, in the lead-up to the Iraq invasion George Bush and Tony Blair discussed painting planes in United Nations colors “in order to provoke an attack which could then be used to justify material breach” and thus set in motion an invasion, according to Philippe Sands, a leading British human rights lawyer (see Revealed: Bush and Blair discussed using American Spyplane in UN colors to lure Saddam into war, Channel Four News).
In fact, the neocons have not rested in their effort to foment war and force the support of the American people by way of deception. On May 16, 2008, Paul Joseph Watson, writing for Prison Planet, noted confidential recordings released under the Freedom of Information Act revealing the efforts of former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and top military analysts to cook up another terrorist attack on America in order to gain support for their ambitious plans to decimate Muslim culture. “The most extraordinary exchange takes place when Lt. Gen. Michael DeLong bemoans shrinking political support for Neo-Con war plans on Capitol Hill and suggests that sympathy for the Bush administration’s agenda will only be achieved after a new terror attack,” writes Watson. “Rumsfeld agrees that the psychological impact of 9/11 is wearing off and the ‘behavior pattern’ of citizens in both the U.S. and Europe suggests that they are unconcerned about the threat of terror.” Rumsfeld characterizes Bush as “a victim of success” because America has not suffered “an attack in five years” and for Rumsfeld and the neocons this state of affairs is indeed lamentable.
Obviously, the neocons will stop at nothing — including the murder of more Americans in a false flag terror attack — to realize their agenda.
Finally, Sy Hersh casts suspicion on himself during the interview when he admits he did not bother to write an article on the neocon casus belli brainstorming session because it did not go forward. “So I can understand the argument for not writing something that was rejected — uh maybe. My attitude always towards editors is they’re mice training to be rats…. But the point is jejune, if you know what that means.” It was “jejune” because Hersh believes the “American public, if you get the right incident, the American public will support bang-bang-kiss-kiss. You know, we’re into it.”
Of course, that may be true for some of the American public, even a large segment, but for those of us up to speed on the master plan of the neocons — total war, so the children of the neocons will “sing great songs about us years from now,” as Richard Perle once said — this comment stinks of irresponsibility. It avoids discussion of the criminal mindset of the neocons, who are determined to start WW IV, even if such a conflict leads to the distinct possibility the Prince of Darkness’ children may not be around to sing great songs.
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147 Responses to “Cheney, Neocons Considered Killing Americans in Pretext to Attack Iran”
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July 31st, 2008 at 4:32 pm
I like how Alex appeals to your guys’ lesser intellect by including “Pulitzer prize winner.” Like Pulitzer winners are immune to idiocy. But he knows you’ll swallow it because he said it.
The sad thing is, most of you (all?) are going to believe it just because the guy said it.
Carry on.
July 31st, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Ok;
if, when the U.S. Government killed 3,000 of its own citizens and thousands more in an illegal war, caused you guys only to flock (like sheep, BTW) to the internet; what’s it going to take to make you actually do something about the tyranny?
July 31st, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Why, thank you, fake Chuck, we will carry on!
July 31st, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Yes. Yes you will. And so will the American Government.
P.S.
Fake Chuck!? What, there’s only one guy can be named Chuck in the world?
July 31st, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Psssst…
I think you’re supposed to be ignoring me Steve. Leastwise that’s the general concensus…which everybody preaches but nobody practices…kind of like this whole revolution thing you guys find sexy and romantic but don’t have the courage to execute.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Chuck probably likes to sit with Thomas Richards and carry on with hating the truth…the truth hurts buckaroos…so suck it up face reality or should I state the biggest conspiracy theorists out there are the people like you that believe gov. lies just because there the gov. they certainly couldn’t lie, cheat, steal and plunder their way to the end goal a Luciferian controlled New world order…get off the train Chuck…rides over
IXOYE
July 31st, 2008 at 5:13 pm
who said we believe everything he says? just most of it
July 31st, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Truthers revolt? Not as long as there is weed available.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Chuck,
I want post this in a spot where you will see it. Unfortunately there is no guarantee you will read it and even less possibility that you will understand it.
This movement is far from dead. The people here may be frustrated but they have not given up the fight.
You apparently did not hear Jesse Ventura on the Howard Stern show. He may not be the most well spoken or the best at articulating the facts but people know that this is an honest man. This went out to an audience of millions and people are starting to hear the turning tide. This exposure brings people a bit closer to consciousness. Closer to seeing the bigger picture and stepping away from their ego driven nationalism and ignorance.
Why don’t we take this fight to the streets and march on the capitol and throw these criminals out in the streets? We are hoping that we will not have to resort to such means but there are enough of us willing to do just that. I think people are still a bit too comfortable but as they destroy our way of life there will be more people in a better position to move if need be. The right time is not here just yet. There is still much work needed to be done to educate the people that this type of action may be necessary.
Action of this magnitude is a last resort in the minds of good people. People do not want conflict and war and this is exactly what the people who are perpetrating these crimes rely upon. This is why the wolves kill and eat the sheep. We just want to live in peace. Without government we would not fight wars.
We will do what it will take if necessary but this war is a war of information. The people need to overcome their ignorance. They need to know who is pulling the strings so that when the time does come they will know to whom to point their gun. Knowledge will end these peoples ability to stage new events. This same knowledge will make it apparent that people are keeping a close watch on our elected officials.
This Neo-con agenda is on its last leg and they are pushing their powers to the limit… mostly to attempt to protect themselves from this wave of awareness.
People are going to get hurt in this war. Good people with families who simply want peace.
You want action? I’m calling for it.
Good people and patriots,
This war is not over. It is time to move on people’s ignorance. Please go to random blog spots. Go to myspace and facebook. Post something that people will read. Play dumb and pull people into discussion.
1.)”What’s this “911 truth”?” My good friend told me about this and I have never been so disturbed. Have any of you heard about this? I looked into this WTC 7 and it seems kind of strange. What do you think?
2.)”Did you hear about the Bush impeachment hearings? Why wasn’t this on the news?”
3.) “Did you hear Jesse Ventura on the Howard Stern show? What was he talking about? I have been looking into it and I think he made some good points.”
etc….
Create interaction and do not play “know it all” because we do not know it all. Get people to interact and convince them to want a new investigation. If they have nothing to hide then they should want to set this straight. Be subtle and people will be more accepting. You will encounter trolls but do not confront them and they will appear to be the hostile one. Ask them innocent questions as if you are looking for good answers and people will see their hatred of simple inquisition.
Go to work patriots! See you in the future of this country.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:23 pm
you know what i love. that the “internet” is by far the best way for kids to do school work and learn new facts ……… but when it comes to things like this its like “o please you read that on the internet”. chuck please open your eyes and stop being such a hypocrit you may just waste an entire lifetime to that stupidity.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:25 pm
You know, Chuck sure posts a lot on almost all the stories. He comes here and insults us all, so that leads me to believe if he’ll spend this much time doing this, that he is a troll plant who is FOR the NWO.
As for when and who will do something about the tyranny, it has already started. There are people who do things and no one knows. Lone Wolves. Now the time will come when people will group together and fight when the last straw is broken. Like if they try and take the guns. I suspect a major uprising with that. So Chuck, if you are not a troll, are YOU going to do someting about the tyranny? Will you fight for your country? If you are from here at all.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:28 pm
“who said we believe everything he says? just most of it”
Exactly! And most without ever leaving their computer chair.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Insults you? I’m just curious, Waterlilies, why, if you believe the U.S. Governement killed 3,000 of its own citizens and is now trying to enslave and kill you et. al., the only thing you do about it is type on message boards…if it’s that serious and immediate. Also I wonder greatly why you guys continue to work for them and give them a significant portion of your income.
That sounds like a pretty logical inquiry, don’t you think Waterlilies?
July 31st, 2008 at 5:34 pm
“Why don’t we take this fight to the streets and march on the capitol and throw these criminals out in the streets? We are hoping that we will not have to resort to such means but there are enough of us willing to do just that.”
Bullshit. If killing 3,000 of there own citzens won’t do it for you 7 years later…7 years!!…what will do it JJ? Taking away your television, computer and cell phone? Hell fucking yeah! You guys’ll be rioting within minutes.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:36 pm
All, I’d suggest it would be best to ignore the fake Chuck’s ad hominem insults, childishly petty provocations and insane assertions that liberation from thuggery requires piling on even more thuggery.
I do have a question for ya’ll: given the relentless post-9/11 scrutiny of Neoconmen on the part of millions of patriots, do you think the deployment of another 9/11 false-flag op was strategically blocked? That by our diligence 9/11 was turned into a one-trick pony for the Neoconmen and their allies? That because of citizen vigilance, other planned ops were cancelled, and in fact lives were spared?
It is hard to prove, or claim credit for, something that did NOT happen, but still, it is a valid point to reckon citizen resistance played a role in forestalling another false-flag operation.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:37 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V5iCUBEUx4
If you allow it, it will happen-
GS
July 31st, 2008 at 5:37 pm
“Action of this magnitude is a last resort in the minds of good people.”
Last resort!!?? WTF!!?? THEY KILLED 3,000 OF YOU, JJ, AND ARE PLANNING TO KILL AND/OR ENSLAVE YOU!! Jesus fucking Christ JJ, what “last resort”, exactly, are you waiting for? What a fucking cowardly cop-out.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:40 pm
trying2awaken;
Stupid people like you lack standing to call others stupid. Reading both our posts, I think you probably know which conclution most honest people would reach (though they probably won’t want to admit it).
Anyway, you don’t have to apologize to me for believe something Alex says or you read on the internet…even though you’ve never left your computer chair. I understand (though deride) the mentality.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:48 pm
“All, I’d suggest it would be best to ignore the fake Chuck’s ad hominem insults,”
MWUAHAHAHAHAHAH
You can’t do it Publius! You paradoxically prove that yourself with this very post. People here are just not have the intellectual fortitude or discipline to ignore me. You couldn’t even do it yourself.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:50 pm
i do not mean to be rude or insulting to anyone on this blog, but there is something you all should know even though you might disagree with it.
these devils in human form the jewish zionazi,s will cause a third war to happen where nearly a billion people will die in the muslims alone.
The prophet mohammed stated in a prophecy that the christian nations will stand under 80 banners of 12000 soldiers each and invade muslim lands, which makes it 9 million 600 thousand soldiers. they will break all peace agreements with the muslims which they had signed before and betray their pledges.
one third of the muslims will die in this war, one third will die in a natural catastrophe, the remaining one third will win victory granted by god to the believers.
he also stated that the christian armies will be mostly made up of illegitimate children, whom the bible says will not enter the congregation of the lord till the 10th generation.
whatever the prophet has stated in his life has always come true, who and what evil in human form wants all this bloodshed on the human race?
all genuine jews ,christians,muslims and other faiths can live in peace and security!
we as believers in the one lord need to highlight the humanity of man,and our responsibility to each other as gods creation.
ALLAH has stated in the koran clearly, THAT ALL GOODNESSS TO HIS CREATION IS FROM YOUR LORD, THE EVIL IS FROM YOUR OWN SOULS”
is there a way to stop this madness taking shape to foil the devils in human form and their evil plans for the human race!
what pretext will they use to fool the christian world into war?
i am happy in the belief that the aggressors will not be muslims at least.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:50 pm
“insane assertions that liberation from thuggery requires piling on even more thuggery.”
What it obviously takes is for you to post on message boards. The founding fathers would be shamed of you!
July 31st, 2008 at 5:51 pm
“insane assertions that liberation from thuggery requires piling on even more thuggery.”
Another cowardly excuse for apathy and inaction.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Chuck, we tend to believe it because it fits a pattern, this is how these guys operate. Plus, we’ve heard from many sources that the CIA has been working inside Iran with the Mujahadeen, a terrorist organization, to cause problems and create turmoil.
If this had happened, people would be calling us conspiracy theorist for considering the possibilty that it was a false flag attack.
Did Seymor ask if there was any press there before he started talking about this? He looked around the room and said something before he went into it.
July 31st, 2008 at 6:07 pm
The Revolution set us free, the Civil War defined us. What would it take now to turned this nation into a non-warring threat to the entire world?
July 31st, 2008 at 6:14 pm
When this happens to go down… I’ll be ready. One man will not make a difference. My team is ready.
Did you ever think that they want an armed revolt? They are prepared. They would love to attempt to put us under martial law. We must first win the minds if we ever hope to win the war. This is not a cop out…. It’s reality.
A failed attempt at revolt will end this country quicker than any other event. If we have an informed public their theater will erode quicker than they could attempt to create it.
Knowledge is power that they can not overcome with lies.
July 31st, 2008 at 6:15 pm
The wise book some call Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth…states in Revelation 18 that Babylon (prophecy for U.S.) will fall the great pagan (pluralistic society) economy will fall in one hour…that hour is rapidly approaching…has anyone been paying attention to the world economy…it is failing and that economic failure is directly related to the Federal Reserve bank…once the house of cards fall the entire global economy goes to…out of WWIII Albert Pike stated that a One World dictatorship would arise, I have a news flash for Mr. Pike, you don’t win…let me repeat they the NWO does not win……IXOYE
July 31st, 2008 at 6:31 pm
“There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war”, Hersh explains…
These guys actually have to attend brainstorming sessions in secret to come up with ways to create new wars? Give me a break. They are so caught up in their rule-the-world shenanigans that they forgot the answer is right in front of them…I mean in front of us: AMERICAN IDOL, THE SIMPSONS, DANCING WITH THE STARS, etc… Did they forget that the most effective and efficient means has been working (miraculously well) for as long as since the sheeple finally realized what their thumbs and forefingers truly were meant to be used for: flicking on the tube so to divert the populations away from the grand “scheme” of things. You already know this Mr. Hersh, who are you trying to fool?
July 31st, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Sorry About The Link,
http://www.hismailroom.com
July 31st, 2008 at 6:32 pm
““sing great songs about us years from now,” as Richard Perle once said”
I thought it was (another) neocon Micheal Ledeen..
http://www.historycommons.org/.....ael_ledeen
July 31st, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Mangetout and chuck must be gods……..that is the only conclussion I can come to……How can these little abortion-survivors, call out the entire message board for postings their opinions, when they have more posts between them than everyone else? It is easy to be a tough guy on the net, huh guys? If you are sooooo sick of “internet patriots”, posting about the crimes, and trying to inform other people to the attrocities of the world government, (simple solution) stop coming to these threads and trying to bait people (people that are sincerly trying to help and inform) into these irrealevant squables…..get a job, or get off the computer and do your fucking job……i havnt laughed out loud like this in a long time….If someone new to the discussion were to read this whole thread, it is good for a real hard laugh…….these two guys are just trolls…..non-sensical deductions
July 31st, 2008 at 6:47 pm
The point Seymour Hersh makes is that a high-level planner flanked by Dick Cheney et al. was perfectly comfortable advancing a game plan to kick-start a global war that would involve one set of Americans murdering another set of Americans in a false flag operation with no consequences (for the adviser to painted the scenario) to speak of!…
July 31st, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Hey Chuck, how much money do they give to you when you post your bullshit ideas here?
No 9/11 truther will be deceived by you.
Change your tactic or tell your boss that you are not smart enough to damage 911 truth movement and quit your job.
July 31st, 2008 at 6:59 pm
in refrence to Mark….
that site is blasphemous, it’s crazy,it twists up the truth just as bad as the muslims do,and the catholics,if you beleive the bible and read it than how could you beleive the garbage on that site,also a “woman” in prophecy refers to a church,not a person…hope you do well with this information
July 31st, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Hey copycat, how much money do you give to the evil government for work YOU do. No, I will not deceive any truther…Alex Jones has already done such a thorough job; I’d be deceiving myself if I could outdo his brainwashing.
July 31st, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Nonsensical deductions, huh kenny? You fear for your life and liberty; they’ve already killed 3,000 of your citizens..and suggesting you do something about it is “nonsensical deduction?” You must be a product of government education. You work for a master and support the criminal government by givning them a portion of your income. That is passive complicity.
July 31st, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Who’s your daddy?
Revelation 12:9 — The devil or Satan is the deceiver of the whole world.
John 8:44 — He is a liar and the father of liars. There is no truth in him. He must lie and deceive to get a following.
Gen. 3:1-5,13 — The serpent was subtle and lied to Eve — beguiled (deceived) her. Had Eve understood God’s real love and the real consequences of obeying Satan, she would not have done it. Satan denied the consequences and made evil appear to be good.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 — This is standard procedure for Satan. He transforms himself into an angel of light. Satan is the world’s greatest counterfeiter.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 — False teachers do not appear as false teachers or no one would believe them. They are “deceitful workers” who appear as ministers of righteousness.
Because the gathering of the saints is part of the Day of the Lord, we could substitute the phrase “our gathering together unto him” for the word “day” in verse 2:
1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that [the time of our gathering together unto him] has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction (2 Thess. 2).
July 31st, 2008 at 8:02 pm
For those that believe…
Remember “God works ALL things according to the council of HIS OWN will” and “all is of God” I think we’ve forgotten who is REALLY in charge here. The world at large has been duped by the deciever, the father of lies. He’s doing what he was created to do…decieve.
July 31st, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Chuck,
Yes,there is only one guy who should be name Chuck in the world,and his name is Chuck Norris,and he should kick your ass.I mean really,has anyone ever met a Chuck they liked?
I’d bet you’re an asshole Chuck.
To any other Chuck’s,who aren’t assholes,I didnt mean you.
July 31st, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Why does the information that surfaces today not trigger whole-house investigations? Is everyone that is in a position of authority sold out tho the NWO? You would think that there would be one good man in the ranks somewhere, somehow, someway. Its time to call off the dog and pony show! Why do we bicker about the scenes of this play? Are there really so many evil men out there? Just maybe we are battling spirits and principalities. Please don’t let the next scene plunge us into the depths of bickering. Let our minds focus on the big picture, and work together. Our enemy is flexing muscles and it will take us all to wake up everyone. Remember, the enemy we face now is the enemy we have faced forever! All generations of of man since Adam. We cant do it alone! Oh, and remember GOD wins! Pick the side you want to be on. Satan’s children, his actual genetic off-spring are trying to wipe us and our freedom out. His angels and his children are HERE! WAKE UP! The children of Satan can smile, cry, bleed, and die just like us, but they will burn forever. You see, they have to make the best of their stay while they are here because they are screwed. The promise, the covenant is made with Israel not those that are pretending to be Israel. The tares are POSERS!
July 31st, 2008 at 8:32 pm
On September 11, 1990 at 9:11pm, HW Bush gave the following speech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc7i0wCFf8g
Eleven years later, we all know what happened. Well, at least what we are/were told.
These criminals constantly use dates to play with us. They constantly use the same symbols in the logos of the companies they run. All this does is tell us who is responsible and who pulled off these events. They own all the major newspapers in this country and almost all of the television/cable networks.
The next date you are going to have to watch is 8/8/08. An event will occur that day. The beginning of the Olympics in Beijing. Something terrible will occur at that event. Something that will not be evident right away, but will be very clear by the end of August. You have to be ready by 8/16/08 (lunar eclipse). If you are not, you will have very little chance of surviving what’s coming. By 9/11/08, the sovereignty of our once great nation will have ended. Our infrastructure will collapse and martial law will be declared on or around that date. Life as you know it now will be gone forever. So good luck. You will all need it.
This is a psychic as well as a physical war. You must be ready for anything. Mentally and physically. To survive the next year, you will go through hell and back.
Oh, and if you don’t believe me, I don’t know what to tell you. So if you have anything derogatory or cliche to say, waste your own time as you see fit. I will not respond. You don’t have much time left. Use your life essence to meditate on this subject. You will see the truth in it.
July 31st, 2008 at 8:43 pm
“Something terrible will occur at that event. Something that will not be evident right away, but will be very clear by the end of August. You have to be ready by 8/16/08 (lunar eclipse). If you are not, you will have very little chance of surviving what’s coming. By 9/11/08, the sovereignty of our once great nation will have ended.”
Oh yeah, wise guy? Where’s your evidence? Methinks you’re using these dates just because of the repeating numbers (8/08/08, 9/11) to instill some paranoia. Get real.
July 31st, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Hey Chuck, keep posting your bullshit ideas here.
I’ve got news for you.
No matter how hard you try to damage 9/11 truth movement, you will not succeed.
Isn’t it time your boss realized that you are not smart enough to damage 9/11 truth movement?
July 31st, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Wow, the government lying again. Anyone surprised? Those of us who are not so full of patriotic brainwashing still remember the lies this country was founded on and the ultimate real estate scam ever stealing all the land from the Native Americans. These people that rule our country do so for their own financial benefit and nothing more. The truth is what it is. As for the next presidents, people, do you really think one person will make all the difference in the world with your life. They are merely a piece in the puzzle. No I don’t trust the government, yes I believe in the American people, yes I believe all that we are fighting over is oil.
July 31st, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Of course I won’t succeed copycat, it has fail…miserably…of its own accord.
LMFAO
Keep giving your income, copycat, to a government you think is trying to kill/enslave you after already killing 3,000. That’s really genius.
July 31st, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Yo, Neo Bagration,
That’s deep man. The eight does have significance to the Chinese. It’s a luck number. You know, I was going to write disagreeing with you but the more I think about numerology the more I think you might be on to something.
Still though, I don’t think it will ever get that bad. I think they are leaning towards the “Brave New World” kind of control rather than a “1984″ approach.
Who knows though. I don’t put anything past them anymore.
July 31st, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Thanks guys. I always get a good laugh when I read the comments on this site and you’ve not let me down.
One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest seems to be a documentary about sanity compared to this place.
Keep it up.
July 31st, 2008 at 9:47 pm
It’s worth pointing out for the young people visiting this site that Seymour Hersh isn’t just your average journalist. He is thought of very highly among intellectuals and is probably on the short list of the most influential and respected journalists of our time. The fact that his remarks aren’t the top story on every newscast from coast to coast is simply amazing. Further proof(as if we need it) of total media complicity in the ongoing march toward fascism.
July 31st, 2008 at 9:55 pm
This Mass Murderer & Treasonous SOB, has the one missing N|| & in my opinion he has 2??, & with the delegated Power he has, & his past willingness t5o use, them in 2007, & his 911, performance, running the show. WHY, would this Evil,man hesitate, to use the missing N|| on America. Alex i have a very bad feeling about this senerio, & have seen some data, then it was immediately taken down, this concearns me greatly. If you’d like, feel free to contact me, directly on skype. MJ Please, who-ever gets this data, it’s Urgent you don’t bury this information, you must let Alex view the material & information, this is not in anyway, a way to a attempt to market anything, or for me to talk to Alex, I’ve posted many many times, & had all the glory i wish, this is about possibly saving lives, Period. Please, read: below, Alex, you i know this data also, but, the dots even til, today, are not connected, except by a very very few, but this Nut Case, has the Missing N?? VP>DC Link: http://www.oregontruthalliance.org/node/111
B-52 Nuclear Weapons Incident
This is a collection of resources, news and analysis about the shocking, virtually uncovered or covered up story of a B-52 armed with 5 or 6 nuclear cruise missiles overflying the US on August 30, 2007. The original story broke in the Military Times and was reported by the Associated Press on 9/5/07. The overflight, the cover up, and the unaccounted for sixth weapon are the subject of intense investigation and scrutiny for independent journalists not controlled by the mainstream global corporate propaganda networks. However, the controlled corporate news coverage, such little as there is, is included here for reference. Alex, this is the dots: Dick Cheney & Vigilant Shield: Will a Missing Nuke from the B-52 Incident be used in a Simulated Terrorist Attack?
http://www.oregontruthalliance.org/node/314
Dick Cheney & Vigilant Shield: Will a Missing Nuke from the B-52 Incident be used in a Simulated Terrorist Attack?
by Michael Salla, Ph.D.
October 13, 2007
What makes the B-52 incident even more disturbing is that six nuclear cruise missiles left Minot Air Force Base, and the initial Military Times report on September 5 reported that five nuclear warheads were discovered at Barksdale Air Force Base. This was subsequently revised by the Military Times to six in an updated story five days later on September 10. How could the Air Force mix up how many nuclear weapons were initially involved in the incident? The most plausible explanation is that there had been a discrepancy in the number of nuclear weapons that had left Minot and what had been later discovered at Barksdale? The nuclear armed B-52 had been sitting on the tarmac in an unsecured military environment for up to 10 hours before its nuclear payload was discovered. This offered plenty of time for the removal of one of the nuclear weapons. Such an event had to be covered up for national security purposes which is why the Military Times revised its initial report. The possibility of a missing nuclear weapon is augmented by an unprecedented official standown by the Air Force on September 14 where all planes were grounded allegedly to review Standard Operating Procedures. Was the Air Force really conducting an emergency inventory to locate any missing nuclear weapons?
This raises the disturbing possibility that not only was the B-52 ordered to participate in a covert mission to attack Iran outside the regular chain of military command, but that one of its nuclear weapons was secretly siphoned off for another covert mission. If Dick Cheney did give the order for the nuclear weapons to be loaded on to the B-52, it is highly likely that he is aware of the location and potential use of the missing nuclear missile. A number of serious questions therefore need to be asked about the appropriateness of Cheney being in charge of TOPOFF 4 and Vigilant Shield. This is even more urgent if there is a missing nuclear warhead that was taken from the B-52 for a yet undisclosed mission. Could this mission be related to the TOPOFF and Vigilant Shield exercises?
(PLEASE PAY ATTENTION & GET THIS DATA TO ALEX JONES ASAP)
The possible use of the B-52 missing nuclear weapon could trigger the martial law scenario found in National Security Presidential Directive (NSPD) 51 after the declaration of a “Catastrophic Emergency.” NSPD 51 defines a “Catastrophic Emergency” as “any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions.” Once declaring such an emergency, President Bush or his successors according to Continuity of Government provisions, can take over all governmental functions at local, state and national levels, as well as private sector activities, to ensure the U.S. emerges from the emergency with an “enduring constitutional government.”
So far, the Air Force inquiry is classified and information on a possible missing nuclear weapon has not been disclosed. It is unlikely that much information will be disclosed to the public for national security reasons. The only U.S. Congressman calling for an official public inquiry into the B-52 incident is Dennis Kucinich. As long as the role of Dick Cheney in the B-52 incident is not investigated and the missing nuclear weapon is not located, Cheney should be removed from any position of authority in coordinating civil and military responses to any simulated terrorist attack. Such exercises provide him the opportunity and authority to secretly approve the covert use of a nuclear device that can be used to trigger a declaration of a “Catastrophic Emergency.” U.S. National Security is not served by Dick Cheney having a prominent role in leading TOPOFF 4, Vigilant Shield and any future simulated terrorist attacks involving weapons of mass destruction. New York & Seattle, 8-8-08 maybe nothing but maybe everything:
July 31st, 2008 at 10:30 pm
This guy needs to get WAC ed
July 31st, 2008 at 10:42 pm
The Gulf of Tonkin Incident WAS NOT the first time that the US government and the US military staged a false flag attack on US troops and citizens to create an excuse to launch an aggressive war.
In 1898 the US Navy blew up its own battleship, the Maine, in Havana Harbor, killing 266 US sailors, and providing an excuse for the USA to declare War against Spain. During the Spanish-American War the USA took Cuba, the Philppines, Puerto Rico and Guam away from Spain. I’m sure that the White House, the War Department, and the Office of Naval Intelligence thought that it was a great bargain to sacrifice a battleship to gain three countries plus Guam as new US Territories.
July 31st, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Hey Chuck, if you really believe 9/11 truth movement has failed, then why are you still trying to insult failed (in your terms) 9/11 truthers?
You are doing this because you do know that the movement has not failed. You had contradicted yourself and that is called an act of stupidity.
July 31st, 2008 at 11:13 pm
The current war in Iraq is a redux of the Spanish/American War.
“The U.S. War Department had possessed contingency plans for war with Spain for years. Future President Theodore Roosevelt had a lot of enthusiasm for the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) as assistant secretary of the Navy in 1897-98. The ONI, like Roosevelt, was committed to the construction of a great U.S. battle fleet to dominate to Western Hemisphere and project American power into the world beyond. Roosevelt wrote in December 1897, “The Chief of the Office of Naval Intelligence has got to be the man on whom we rely for initiating strategic work.” ONI, with Roosevelt’s active support, performed what he called “invaluable work … in formulating and preparing plans of action for the war with Spain.”13
The Kimball Plan, completed by ONI in June 1897, called for naval blockades of Cuba and Manila, both prominent features of American strategy when war began in April 1898. It, although modified extensively prior to and during the war, served as the military’s main plan during the conflict.”
http://www.humboldt.edu/~jcb10/spanwar.shtml
During the Spanish/American War, US nespapers and magazines competed with each other to make up lies and propaganda.
“The rising circulation rates of the Journal and other New York newspapers during this period of “jingoism” show that the drama made money, and the competition was too tight to throw the money away. Many papers lowered standards so much that they routinely carried news items directly off the pages of their rivals. Hearst, for example, caught Pulitzer’s World in the act during the conflict that was to come. An article appeared in the Journal in July 1898 describing the death of Colonel Reflipe W. Thenuz, whose name was an anagram of the phrase, “We pilfer the news.” The next day, Pulitzer’s paper carried the item, being bold enough to add specific dateline information to make the story appear authentic. The Journal celebrated the gaffe for over a month while the World maintained a “pained silence” on its blunder.”
After easily defeating the Spanish in the Philippines, the US military occupied the Philippines and denied Independence to the Philippinos. In the ensuing Philippine/American War, which lasted for 14 years, 125,000 US troops were stationed in the Philippines, and the US troops committed many atrocities against the civilian population, including the massacre of entire villages. In the Philippino/American War, more than 4,000 US troops died, and between 200,000 and one million Philippinos died.
My point is that false flag attacks, total media propaganda, and aggressive, genocidal war are US traditions going back more than 100 years. You cannot blame the Bush Administration alone or the Republicans alone for the current US fascism, which goes back more than 100 years and pervades the US government, both major political Parties, the military, the intelligence agencies, and the mass media. The fascists have total control of this country and they have has it for MORE THAN 100 years. You cannot remove fascism from the US government by the peaceful political process; the corruption is FAR too deep for that to work.
July 31st, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Download MP3s of Dr Judy Wood’s New Radio Interviews on Hurricane Erin on 9/11.
Erin was a controlled environment. Check the wind speed and pressure during the 9/11 “attack events” and see how controlled it really was:
http://drjudywood.com/articles/erin/erin9.html
New Radio Interviews Here:
http://drjudywood.com/#news
July 31st, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Quit being stupid copycat. Continue to work for your masters and give them your income.
LMFAO
August 1st, 2008 at 1:37 am
Hey Copycat/Chuck the only person you are fooling is yourself
But you are correct about 9/11 being an inside job
August 1st, 2008 at 1:45 am
Concearned; I have read your entire post on the B-52 incident. Ever since this incident took place, I have wondered what was going to come of it. The media only did a blurb on this and then the entire issue went underground and was never heard of again. I think anything is plausible today given the state of facist affairs we are now living under since 9/11. I do remember that the same day or maybe it was a day after, Bin laden showed-up on our tv sets. I thought it was a swerve. This is why I call Bin Laden “Bib-in-a-box”. When something of epic proportions seem to make it to the airwaves, he tends to pop right up onto our tv sets. when Bin Laden did appear on our sets, he was talking about our economy and mortgage crisis! Let me tell you, I no longer believe in the boogey man that the nazi government is trying to shove down my throat.
August 1st, 2008 at 1:52 am
Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will be at least one, usually several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it.
“Mahatma Ghandi’s ghost throttled Hendrix”
“Saddam Hussein was breeding an army of genetically modified Yeti”.
“Hitler was half Werewolf”
“Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone” etc, etc.
The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it.
So it’s hardly surprising that the events of Sept 11 2001 have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales. And as always, there is - sadly - a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis.
One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11, and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they “hate our freedoms.”
Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell.
Normally I don’t even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories.
These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unaware by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able to. Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, the insider trading on airline stocks - which remains uninvestigated, the complicit behaviour of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer 4 planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly 2 hours , crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do.
The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent even more stupid stories to distract from its core silliness, and thus it has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly gargantuan proportions.
It’s difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article. However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked.
As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it, and deny that the first ever existed.
Eventually, when they have turned full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog, they then re-invent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it, thus beginning the circle once more.
This technique is known as “the fruit loop” and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see any of their ideas through to their (il)logical conclusions.
According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, 19 Arabs took over the 4 planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the use of guns, knives ,box cutters and gas, and then used electronic guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to their targets.
The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist.
For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren’t any Arabs on the planes.
If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being registered on the passenger lists.
But the curly question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist.
With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID ( but never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were traced to their real identities), they quickly bypass this problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked suspicious.
However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed to have got on board with all that stuff if they were searched ?
And if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage. “Excuse me sir, why do you have a box cutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?” “A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get.” “Very strange”, thinks the security officer. “That’s the fourth Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife, gun or box cutter and gas mask.
And why does that security camera keep flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of those days I guess…”
Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they had purchased and cars they had rented. So if they used credit cards that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they used false IDs to get on to the plane? But by this time, the fruit loop is in full swing, as the conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and awkward rational analysis.
They will point to the fact that the hijackers passports were allegedly found at the crash scenes. “So there!” they exalt triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged look of one who has just a revelation of questionable sanity.
Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated, and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently “Who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!” And so the whole loop starts again. “Well, why aren’t they on the passenger lists?” “You numbskull ! They assumed the identities of other passengers!”
And so on… Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of creative delusion, the rational sceptic will allow them to get away with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what further delights await us in the unravelling of this marvellously stupid story.
“Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers? ” The answer of course is that its just one of those strange co-incidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen…
This is another favourite deductive method of the conspiracy theorist. The “improbability drive”, in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to suggest it, and then speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable co-incidences to try to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens (just about all the time in their world).
There is a principle called “Occam’s razor” which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is most likely to be correct.
Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with the silly story of the 19 invisible Arabs, we move on to the question of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes.
Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do.
Hijacking it without the crew being able to alert Air Traffic Control (ATC ) is almost impossible.
The crew needs only to punch in a four digit code to alert ATC to a hijacking.
Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility, the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that Sept 11, the invisible hijackers took over the plane by the crude method of threatening people with box cutters and knives, shooting and stabbing passengers to try to lure the crew out of the cockpit and spraying gas (after they had attached their masks, obviously).
And yet, miraculously they were able to take control of the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the hijacking code. Not just on one plane, but on all four.
At this point in the tale, the conspiracy theorist is again forced to call upon the services of the improbability drive.
So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of the planes, all four pilots fly them with breath taking skill and certainty to their fiery end, all four pilots unflinching in their steely resolve for a swift meeting with Allah.
Apart from their psychotic hatred of “our freedoms”, it was their fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron will for this dreadful deed.
Which is strange, because according to another piece of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom, even leaving their Korans in the bar -really impeccable Islamic behaviour - and then got up at 5am the next morning to pull off the greatest covert operation in history.
This also requires us to believe that they were even clear headed enough to learn how to fly the huge planes by reading flight manuals in Arabic in the car on the way to the airport. We know this because they supposedly left the flight manuals there for us to find. It gets better.
Their practical training had allegedly been limited to Cessnas and flight simulators, but this was no barrier to the unflinching certainty with which they took over the planes and skilfully guided them to their doom.
If they are supposed to have done their flight training with these tools, which would be available just about anywhere in the world, its not clear why they would have decided to risk blowing their cover to US intelligence services by doing the training in Florida, rather than somewhere in the Middle East, but such reasoning is foreign to the foggy world of the conspiracy theorist, too trapped in the constant rotation of the fruit loop to make their unsubstantiated fabrications seem even semi- believable.
Having triumphantly established a circular delusion in support of the mythical Arabs, the conspiracy theorist now confronts the difficult question of why there’s nothing left of the planes. Anybody who has seen the endlessly replayed footage of the second plane going into the WTC will realize that for a plane to instantly blow itself up into nothing like that, it would have to be packed with explosives.
Planes do not and cannot blow up into nothing in that manner when they crash. But lets humour the conspiracy theorists and suppose that this crude cartoon designed to hide whatever really hit the building was actually a real plane.
Did the mythical Arabs also haul a huge heap of explosives on board, and mange to deploy them in such a manner that they went off in the exact instant of the crash, completely vaporising the plane? This is a little difficult even for the conspiracy theorist, who at this point decides that its easier to invent new laws of physics in order to keep the delusion rolling along. There weren’t any explosives. It wasn’t an inside job. The plane blew up into nothing from its exploding fuel load! Remarkable! Sluggishly combustible jet fuel which is basically kerosene, and usually burns at about 400c has suddenly taken on the qualities of a ferociously explosive demolition agent, vaporizing 70 tons of aircraft into a puff of smoke.
Never mind that a plane of that size contains around 23 tons of steel and titanium, of which even the melting points are about four times that of the normal combustion temperature of kerosene. And forget about the boiling point of these metals, which is what would be required to vaporize a plane.
And then there’s about 47 tons of aluminium to be accounted for. In excess of 15lbs of metal for each gallon of kerosene. For the conspiracy theorist, such inconvenient facts are vaguely dismissed as “mumbo jumbo”.
This convenient little phrase is their answer to just about anything factual or logical. Like a conjurer pulling a rabbit out of a hat, they suddenly become fanatically insistent about the devastating explosive qualities of kerosene, something hitherto completely unknown to science, but just discovered by them, this very minute.
Determinedly ignoring the fact that never before or since in aviation history has a plane vaporised into nothing from an exploding fuel load, the conspiracy theorist relies upon Hollywood images, where the effects are always larger than life, and certainly larger than the intellects of these cretins. “Its a well known fact that planes blow up into nothing on impact!” they state with pompous certainty. “Watch any Bruce Willis movie!” “Care to provide any documented examples? If it’s a well known fact, then presumably this well known fact springs from some kind of documentation - other than Bruce Willis movies?”
At this point the mad but cunning eyes of the conspiracy theorist will narrow as they sense the corner into which they have backed themselves and plan their escape by means of another stunning back flip.
“Ah, but planes have never crashed into buildings before, so there’s no way of telling.” they counter with a sly grin. “Well, actually planes have crashed into buildings before and since, and not vaporised into nothing.” “But not big planes, with that much fuel ! “, they shriek in hysterical denial. “Or that much metal to vaporise. “ “Yes, but not hijacked planes !” “Are you suggesting that whether the crash is deliberate or accidental affects the combustion qualities of the fuel?” “Now you’re just being silly”.
Although collisions with buildings are rare, planes frequently crash into mountains, streets, other aircraft, nosedive into the ground, or have bombs planted aboard them, and don’t vaporise into nothing. What’s so special about hitting a building? But by now, the conspiracy theorist has once again sailed happily around the fruit loop. “Its a well documented fact that planes explode into nothing on impact.”
Effortlessly weaving back and forth between the position that its a “well known fact” and that “its never happened before, so we have nothing to compare it to”, the conspiracy theorist has now convinced themselves (if not too many other people) that the WTC plane was not loaded with explosives, and that the instant vaporisation of the plane in a massive fireball was the same as any other plane crash you might care to mention.
Round and round the fruit loop… But the hurdles which confront the conspiracy theorist are many, and they are now forced to implement even creative more uses for the newly discovered shockingly destructive qualities of kerosene.
They have to explain how the Arabs also engineered the elegant vertical collapse of both the WTC towers as well as building 7, and for this awkward fact the easiest counter is to simply deny that it was a controlled demolition, and claim that the buildings collapsed from fire caused by the burning kerosene.
This makes it necessary to sweep aside the second law of thermodynamics and propose kerosene which is not only impossibly destructive, but also recycles itself for a second burning in violation of the law of degradation of energy.
You see, it not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic fireball , vaporising a 70 ton plane into nothing, but then came back for a second go, burning at 2000C for another hour at the impact point, melting the skyscraper’s steel like butter. And while it was doing all this it also poured down the elevator shafts starting fires all through the building.
When I was at school there a little thing called the entropy law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once, something which is readily observable in the real world, even for those who didn’t make it to junior high school science. But this is no problem for the conspiracy theorist. Their insane eyes glinting madly, they claim that a few thousand gallons of kerosene is enough to : completely vaporise a 70 ton aircraft : have enough left over to burn so ferociously for over an hour at the impact point that it melted massive steel construction beams ( melting point about double the maximum combustion temperature of the fuel ). : still have enough left over to pour down the elevator shafts and start similarly destructive fires all through the building.
Kerosene really is remarkable stuff! How chilling to realize that those kerosene heaters we had in the house when I was a kid were deadly bombs, just waiting to go off. One false move and the entire street might have been vaporised. And never again will I take kerosene lamps out camping.
One moment you’re there innocently holding the lamp - the next - kapow! Vaporised into nothing - along with the rest of the camp site - with still enough of the deadly stuff left to start a massive forest fire.
These whackos are actually claiming that the mythical raging inferno allegedly created by this miraculously recycling, and impossibly hot burning kerosene melted or at least softened the steel supports of the skyscraper. Oblivious to the fact that the smoke coming from the WTC was black, which indicates an oxygen starved fire -therefore not particularly hot, they trumpet an alleged temperature in the building of 2000 C , without a shred of evidence to support this curious suspension of the laws of physics.
Not content with this ludicrous garbage, they then contend that as the steel girders softened they came straight down instead of buckling and twisting and falling sideways.
Since they’re already re-engineered the combustion qualities of kerosene, violated the second law of thermodynamics, and re-invented the structural properties of steel, why let a little thing like the laws of gravity get in the way? All three buildings fell in a time almost identical to that of a free falling object, dropped from that height, meaning that its physically impossible for it to have collapsed by the method of the top floors smashing through the lower floors.
But according to the conspiracy theorists, the laws of gravity were temporarily suspended on the morning of Sept 11. It appears that the evil psychic power of those dreadful Arabs knows no bounds. Even after they were dead, they were able, by the power of their evil spirits, to force down the towers at a speed physically impossible under the laws of gravity, had it been meeting any resistance from fireproofed steel structures, originally designed to withstand many tons of hurricane force wind as well as the impact of a large passenger jet straying off course.
Clearly, these conspiracy nuts never did their science homework at school, but did become extremely adept at inventing tall tales for why. “Muslim terrorists stole my notes, sir” “No miss, the kerosene heater blew up and vaporised everything in the street, except for my passport.” “You see sir, the school bus was hijacked by Arabs who destroyed my homework because they hate our freedoms.” Or perhaps they misunderstood the term “creative science” and mistakenly thought that coming up with such rubbish was in fact, their science homework.
The ferocious heat generated by the ghastly kerosene was, according to the conspiracy theorists, the reason why so many of the WTC victims can’t be identified. DNA is destroyed by such heat.
This is quite remarkable, because according to the conspiracy theorist, the nature of DNA suddenly changes if you go to a different city. That’s right! If you are killed by an Arab terrorist in NY, your DNA will be destroyed by such temperatures. But if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in Washington DC, your DNA will be so robust that it can survive temperatures which completely vaporise a 70 ton aircraft.
You see, these loonies have somehow concocted the idea that the missile which hit the pentagon was not a missile at all, but one of the hijacked planes. And to prove this unlikely premise, they point to a propaganda statement from the Bush regime, which rather stupidly claims that all but one of the people aboard the plane were identified from the site by DNA testing, even though nothing remains of the plane.
The plane was vaporised by the fuel tank explosion, maintain these space loonies, but the people inside it were all but one identified by DNA testing.
So there you have it. The qualities of DNA are different, depending upon which city you’re in, or perhaps depending upon which fairy story you’re trying to sell at any particular time.
This concoction about one of the hijacked planes hitting the Pentagon really is a howler. For those not familiar with the layout of the Pentagon, it consists of 5 rings of building, each with a space in between of lower building height. Each ring of building is about 30 to 35 ft deep, with a similar depth of lower level space between the rings.
The missile which the Bush regime fired into it, went in at about a 45 degree angle, punching a neat hole less than 20 ft wide, less than 20 ft high through three rings-about 250 ft into the building A little later a section of wall about 65 ft wide collapsed in the outer ring.
Since the plane which the conspiracy theorists claim to be responsible for the impact had a wing span of 125 ft and a length of 155 ft , and a tail height of 40 ft, and there was no wreckage of the plane, either inside or outside the building, and the lawns outside were still smooth and green enough to play golf on, this crazy delusion is clearly physically impossible. But hey, we’ve already disregarded the combustion qualities of kerosene, the properties of DNA, the laws of gravity, the second law of thermodynamics, and invented imaginary properties for building materials, so what the hell - why not throw in a little spatial impossibility as well?
I would have thought that the observation that a solid object cannot pass through another solid object without leaving a hole at least as big as itself is reasonably sound science. But to the conspiracy nut, this is “mumbo jumbo”.
It conflicts with their mad delusion, so it must be wrong although trying to get then to explain the specifics of how it could be wrong is a futile endeavour. Conspiracy nuts fly into a curious panic whenever the Pentagon missile is mentioned.
They shriek that the plane was vaporised by it’s exploding fuel load and point to the WTC crash as evidence of this behaviour. (Fruit loop warning!!)
Like an insect which has just been sprayed, running back and forth in its last mad death throes, they first argue that the reason the hole is so small is that plane never entered the wall, having blown up outside, and then suddenly back flip to explain the 250 ft deep missile hole by saying that the plane disappeared all the way into the building, and then blew up inside the building (even though the building shows no sign of such damage).
As for what happened to the wings - here’s where they get really creative. The wings snapped off and folded into the fuselage which then carried them into the building, which then closed up behind the plane like a piece of meat.
When it suits them they’ll also claim that the plane slid in on its belly, (ignoring the undamaged lawn) while at the same time citing alleged witnesses to the plane diving steeply into the building from above. How they reconcile these two scenarios as being compatible is truly a study in stupidity.
Once they get desperate enough, you can be sure that the UFO conspiracy stuff will make an appearance. The Arabs are in league with the Martians. Space aliens snatched the remains of the Pentagon plane and fixed most of the hole in the wall, just to confuse people. They gave the Arabs invisibility pills to help get them onto the planes. Little green men were seen were seen talking to Bin Laden a few weeks prior to the attacks.
As the nation gears up to impeach the traitor Bush, and prevent his endless war, it’s not helpful to have these idiots distracting from the process by spreading silly conspiracy theories about mythical Arabs, stories which do nothing but play into the hands of the extremist Bush regime.
At a less serious time, we might tolerate such crackpots with amused detachment, but they need to understand that the treachery which was perpetrated on Sept 11, and the subsequent war crimes committed in “retaliation” are far too serious for us to allow such frivolous self indulgence to go unchallenged.
Those who are truly addicted to conspiracy delusions should find a more appropriate outlet for their paranoia. It’s time to stop the loony neo con official conspiracy theory involving 19 Arabs - most of whom were from Saudi Arabia and of whom many have since turned up alive and well - armed with box cutters bringing a world superpower to her knees.
August 1st, 2008 at 2:02 am
Its Unbelievable that people are starting to come out and just say exactly what they are doing. The vast majority of people will do nothing! even when they are being lined up for the gas chamber they will go along with it.
http://www.speedy-specs.co.uk
August 1st, 2008 at 2:24 am
Yeah from what I know about physics, the way the WTC buildings fell and the eyewitness testimony, I would say 9/11 had to be an inside job. But wow Ken, your on your way towards a doctoral dissertation here… watch those late visits to Starbucks man hehe… keep it up bro =)
August 1st, 2008 at 2:50 am
Anthrax Scientist Commits Suicide As FBI Closes In
WASHINGTON (AP) ― A top U.S. biodefense researcher apparently committed suicide just as the Justice Department was about to file criminal charges against him in the anthrax mailings that traumatized the nation in the weeks following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, according to a published report.
The scientist, Bruce E. Ivins, 62, who worked for the past 18 years at the government’s biodefense labs at Fort Detrick, Md., had been told about the impending prosecution, the Los Angeles Times reported for Friday editions. The laboratory has been at the center of the FBI’s investigation of the anthrax attacks, which killed five people.
Ivins died Tuesday at Frederick (Md.) Memorial Hospital. The Times, quoting an unidentified colleague, said the scientist had taken a massive dose of a prescription Tylenol mixed with codeine.
Tom Ivins, a brother of the scientist, told The Associated Press that another of his brothers, Charles, told him Bruce had committed suicide.
A woman who answered the phone at Charles Ivins’ home in Etowah, N.C., refused to wake him and declined to comment on his death. “This is a grieving time,” she said.
A woman who answered the phone at Bruce Ivins’ home in Frederick declined to comment.
Justice Department spokesman Peter Carr and FBI Assistant Director John Miller declined to comment on the report.
Henry S. Heine, a scientist who had worked with Ivins on inhalation anthrax research at Fort Detrick, said he and others on their team have testified before a federal grand jury in Washington that has been investigating the anthrax mailings for more than a year.
Heine declined to comment on Ivins’ death.
Norman Covert, a retired Fort Detrick spokesman who served with Ivins on an animal-care and protocol committee, said Ivins was “a very intent guy” at their meetings.
Ivins was the co-author of numerous anthrax studies, including one on a treatment for inhalation anthrax published in the July 7 issue of the journal Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy.
August 1st, 2008 at 3:18 am
You must feel sorry for “Chuck” - he’s a trained monkey working for peanuts and a daily banana. And by the way - so is his siamese-twin brother “Mangetout”.
August 1st, 2008 at 4:06 am
Stalin, is that you?
August 1st, 2008 at 4:25 am
Ken in Dublin; you’re stupid.
manbearpig; quit giving your income to the criminal U.S. government whilst claiming they are evil killers. How fucking stupid is that dude. Think about that. Really, really think about that.
August 1st, 2008 at 4:58 am
i know chuck i have read a few of his post on here, i thoroughly enjoyed the one he posted about a weaponized virus.
deepred i think called him on it even tried to reason with him, imo. that was the post that people woke up to chuck.
@ chuck, do you not pay taxes.
how did deepred refer to him? oh yeah chucky baby! hey chucky baby don’t you pay taxes.
August 1st, 2008 at 5:43 am
Ken in Dublin, I am not fooling anyone here. You may think I am Chuck. I am not Chuck. I believe Chuck is another brainwashed one working for NWO and we can just bore Chuck silly by not responding to his dumb comments from now on.
August 1st, 2008 at 5:58 am
Is it just me, or is Ted (Red-Neck) Nugent the most Right-Wing, stupid prat, ever? I would just love to slap him in the mush (face) with a big, wet, fish! It’s all very well for rich, white, bigots like him to demean people on Welfare,he’s obviously a moron whos’ motto is–”I’m all right, Jack, F..K you”. Some of us don’t have choices in life about which mansion to spend this Summer/Winter in and rely on Social Security to buy bread. He is the reason you’ve got the America you now have. Don’t try to blame us Communists-this is all your own making. It’s a matter of self-destruction by Capitalism. Greed/Bigotery-not a good look.
August 1st, 2008 at 6:31 am
Ken in Dublin:
I didn’t know that the Arabs were in League with the Martians. It makes sense when you consider that they both live in similar desert environments. Well, that explains why there’s always some huge space rockets parked next to every mosque. It also explains why NASA wants to send a manned mission to Mars.
Personally, I resent my tax dollars going to support Cristian missionaries on Mars or anywhere else, although if I could choose to send Christian missionaries anywhere, it would definitely be Mars.
Do you think that there might be oil on Mars?
August 1st, 2008 at 7:15 am
Just another day at the Animal Farm.
August 1st, 2008 at 7:25 am
IV = 4
WW VI???
Did they skip the third to achieve their goals faster?
August 1st, 2008 at 7:29 am
“Chuck” wrote:
“quit giving your income to the criminal U.S. government whilst claiming they are evil killers…”
What makes you think I pay taxes to the US?
August 1st, 2008 at 7:35 am
“When our credit’s been exhausted to subdue the Middle East,
They’ll install our debtor nation in the body of The Beast.
Traitor…Dare call it treason.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw5dP5gy2Vs
August 1st, 2008 at 8:21 am
AnonCon; The ones that call the Middle East struggle WW4 refer to the Cold War as being WW3. And if you consider the Crusades…and the Colonization of the Americas…this is more like WW7.
Besides, weren’t we always at war with Eurasia?
This is getting double-plus-ungood folks…
August 1st, 2008 at 9:28 am
Ken In Dublin
great post, thanks.
August 1st, 2008 at 9:54 am
HEY VAL COMMIE PIG
NUGENT EARNED HIS RIGHT TO SPEAK HIS MIND.
I DONT SEE ANYONE BUT YOU CONDEMNING HIM.
YOU JUST WANT EVERYONE IN THE WORLD TO BE A LAZY SISSY PISS ANT LIKE YOU.
GOD BLESS AMERICA, WHERE YOU ADVANCE BASED UPON YOUR MERIT AND EFFORT. UNLIKE THE COMMIE SLAVES WHO TAKE FROM OTHERS WHO EARNED IT AND GIVES IT TO THOSE WHO DONT.
NOT 1 PERSON ON THIS SITE AGREES WITH YOU.
YOU ARE A COMMUNIST PIECE OF SHIT AND YOU ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH HERE
COMMUNISTS DONT HAVE RIGHTS.
August 1st, 2008 at 10:01 am
how about getting Ron Paul to read this Sy Hersh false flag transcript on the house floor? surely Ron Paul would be outraged and certainly do this..
August 1st, 2008 at 10:03 am
how about getting Ron Paul to read this Sy Hersh false flag transcript on the house floor? surely Ron Paul would be outraged and certainly do this..at the least it would be on C-span and picked up by viewers and hopefully other media outlets?
August 1st, 2008 at 10:03 am
Fact - Iran will not attack Israel or United States, they never have. Yet Israel and the USA both have been caught numerous times comitting unprovoked acts of war, and if need be comitting false flag operations to ensure a conflict results. We all know this to be true. What we can do is keep spreading the truth. We can stop this hoodwinking, if we become informed and inform others.
Like Martin Luther King once said…
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity”
August 1st, 2008 at 10:04 am
how about getting Ron Paul to read this Sy Hersh false flag transcript on the house floor? surely Ron Paul would be outraged and certainly do this..at the least it would be on C-span and picked up by viewers and hopefully other media outlets? we need to get this to Ron Paul..he is the highest upper in government who will do something about it!
August 1st, 2008 at 10:22 am
I am sure Dr. Paul would jump at the opportunity to lend his name to such a factual story such as this. The facts of this are obviously undeniable and Dr. Paul would surely gain additional credibility.
I am curious, if Cheney is the demon many portray him to be, how come none of you have the balls to be a patriot and deal with him yourself? If he kills fellow Americans on 911 and plots additional murders of innocent civilians, how do you sit by and do nothing?
August 1st, 2008 at 10:26 am
Libertarianism cannot be realized in a capitalist society. It should be clear by now that the freedom of the “free market” only means freedom from the constraints of common morality.
In the most ideal form, government is indispensable in a capitalist society to regulate relations between the people and the capitalists, to protect the interests of each against the other. In practice what inevitably occurs (as we have seen) is that, with ever greater concentration of wealth and power into the hands of the capitalists, government becomes a tool of oppression in the service of capital (fascism).
Once Capitalism has run its course, its corrupt nature will have reached such a level that it can no longer be defended except by the most degenerate elements of humanity. We have almost reached that point now.
A system based on the preeminence of profit over people must be replaced by a society that places humanitarianism as its main priority. This can be achieved alongside the inevitable death of Capitalism. Professional politics can then be replaced by the fusion of each citizen’s work with participation in the administration of society; representative “government” replaced by “governance” administered directly by the people. This will be true democracy.
August 1st, 2008 at 10:43 am
Im sure Cheney was frothing at the mouth at anyone who said killing Americans for more oil wasnt a good idea right now and he probably declared he is the Dark Sith Lord we have all been looking for and he cannot be destroyed by the darkside… he is the Darkside…
August 1st, 2008 at 10:44 am
copycat;
Quit being an Alex Jones brainwshed sheep.
August 1st, 2008 at 10:48 am
vatican;
Why do you continually pay the U.S. Government (via taxes on your slave wages)?
August 1st, 2008 at 10:49 am
Keep on typing fellas. I used to think the internet was destined to become a revolutionary technology like the printing press. It turns out to be a way for people to vent without taking any real action. It’s a perfect tool for mass control. It’s even better than TV because it makes people think they are actually doing something. I’ll take some of you guys seriously when I hear about you on the news. Get out there and do something! But you better hurry because some other group might beat you to the punch and end up getting all the respect you have forfeited.
August 1st, 2008 at 10:52 am
Quotation by manbearpig:
“What makes you think I pay taxes to the US?”
So no one hear pays U.S. federal income taxes? It’s funny how so few actually do but deny it on a message board. C’mon guys, own up to your complicity and cowardness. Let’s get a show of hands of the people who support the U.S. Government’s murder, etc., by working for them and giving them 35% of your meager income?
August 1st, 2008 at 11:00 am
Hey Chuck! Cowardness?? Just F’ing with ya. Keep goading these fools, maybe they’ll actually do something. Not!
August 1st, 2008 at 11:49 am
“Number of Americans Paying Zero Federal Income Tax Grows to 43.4 Million” (in 2006)
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1410.html
And by the way, Chuck - I’m not American.
August 1st, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Hey James T. - let’s suppose we are just “fools doing nothing” - now which would be more stupid, “us fools doing nothing” or you einsteins watching us doing “nothing”?
August 1st, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Is anyone else having trouble with going on infowars.com? Also, the first hour rebroadcast is coming over jumbled, inaudible for about 10 minutes.
August 1st, 2008 at 2:42 pm
This report points out TYPICAL neo con behavior.
I collect this kind of stuff.
http://groups.msn.com/impeachbushcheneyusurpation
August 1st, 2008 at 4:27 pm
This baiting of countries and lying about so-called threats is a well known American/Brit propaganda scam that everyone not mentally retarded knows about. The fact that the American public, (white) still fall for it does not bode well for them escaping the Prison Planet they’re being warned about. If dirty capitalist/Bilderberger lies stir them up so easily, they are easy prey for what’s coming-and, believing it’s good for them! Stop hating the rest of the world and being so insecure America.it’s YOUR OWN country you should be afraid of-very afraid. Iran etc, will not put you in chains,your own regime will.
August 1st, 2008 at 5:58 pm
I am getting so f–king sick and tired of seeing this m’f–king criminals’ face on the net, t.v. and the papers!!!! He is a goddamn war criminal, he has no regard for our country and I f–king can’t wait to see this POS tried and sentenced! Oh, and by the way this PO f–king S killed almost 3000 people on 9/11 and an un-godly number of Iraqi citizens! He is as evil as a person can be!!!!! I’m sick of this shit and I will protect my family, from you garbage NWO f–king scum, til death………….damn I’m pissed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 1st, 2008 at 6:09 pm
manbearpig;
I’d say you’re all pretty worthless. Regardless of who’s watching you, you’re still doing nothing.
August 1st, 2008 at 6:13 pm
manbearpig;
I’d say you’re all pretty much worthless. Regardless of who’s watching you, you’re still doing nothing.
August 1st, 2008 at 6:41 pm
HELL YA! ROBERT MOORE WE TOO ARE THE SAME, SICK OF CONTROL FREAKS AND MURDERERS IN OFFICE.
August 1st, 2008 at 6:44 pm
BUSH SPYS , SPY THIS KISS MY ASS BUSH ! KILLER KILLER KILLER,KILLER.
August 1st, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Neither Seymour Hersh nor the New Yorker’s editors found the story of high-ranking officials around Dick Cheney peddling a 2nd version of the 1962 Operation Northwoods program sufficiently newsworthy, said Hersh. I don’t believe Hersh when he suggests he
just passively rolled over and deferred to his New Yorker editors to not to give the fiery bombshell information publicity.
August 1st, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Chuck I think you were dropped at birth………..
August 1st, 2008 at 7:40 pm
There is an agenda afoot to release this information now. One possibility is to release the material while casting doubts upon it, considering that it could possibly be construed as election year politics on the part of the Obamanistas.
Pete
August 1st, 2008 at 9:48 pm
wish his hart would explode in his chest that would be awsome for this evil bastard…..
August 1st, 2008 at 10:25 pm
All you people need to get a life! Your imaginations are bigger than your egos generated by your imagined self importance!
Oh, and most of you think Obama is the answer! McCain sucks like most if not all politicians but Obama is the biggest poser ever!
August 1st, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Oh,and if you guys haven’t heard… the whole global warming thing is a scam to scare the crap out of you and collect more taxes from you for your part in ruining the planet!!!
August 1st, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Hey ManBearPig, I think the title to the link is misleading. $3.4M people
August 1st, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Ooops. Wrong button, sorry. Continuing. 15 million Americans fail to file, the rest
August 1st, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Sheesh, did it again. Shouldn’t talk on the phone and type at the same time. Anyway, of the 91M people who don’t pay taxes, only 15M people within tha tfugure are those who fail to file. The rest of that total have NO TAX LIABILIY due the reasons stated in the article. There, I said it!
August 1st, 2008 at 11:38 pm
“mfjhf/dghg/wtf?” - we may be doing “nothing”, but the question is, what are you doing while we’re doing “nothing”?
August 2nd, 2008 at 12:00 am
WakeUp - the original questions (by Chuck) was “(S)o no one hear pays U.S. federal income taxes?(…) Let’s get a show of hands of the people who support the U.S. Government’s murder, etc., by working for them and giving them 35% of your meager income?”
Now, the article I quoted points out quite clearly that “41 percent of the U.S. population will be completely outside the federal income tax system in 2006″, which again means - and just to answer “Chuck’s” questions - that indeed, 41% of the US-population - and at least in 2006 - was not “supporting the US-goverment’s murder etc. by… giving them 35% of (their) meager income”.
Now, having said that - I bet the figures for this year aren’t any better from the goverment’s point of view, but of course, I might be wrong… or just doing “nothing”…
August 2nd, 2008 at 12:48 am
Hey Manbear, yes, however, I think an important distinction that needs to be made is that of the 91M people who fail to file, only 15 Million, out of 300 million people, or 5%, do so “illegally,” which is to fail to file a return. The remaining non-payers are legally taking deductions that negate their tax liability, or don’t make the minimums.
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:37 am
Chuck is gone with the wind.
Just in case you are still reading the comments on this board, Chuck, I demand you to lead the revolutionary soldiers and defeat whoever you think cowards are.
Obviously, you are the brave snob who knows all, you deserve to be a leader of the United States or the world.
If you don’t, your reputation will be completely ruined…….
a fake fan of Chuck
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:12 am
Sure, Seymour Hersh has writen about important issues in the past,haven’t read those…but nothing about 9-11 truth.
To me.., same with Chomsky’s comment on who orcestrated the 9-11 hits, Chomsky: “who cares”.. this smells a little like propaganda.. Meaning, putting out more and more info, that you cannot prove and that will just cause more unease, disturbes and leads people’ focus away from the real issue; the most clear case of INSIDE JOBs: 9-11!
And aren’t the US gov. now letting Israel attack Iran? and the US are being moved to Afganistan to fight Al Qaeda..so the troops aren’t “coming home” and are ready to go if & when Israel surprisingly!!! will need help..
People of USA will need to take the White House.
Obama is the same as McCain and will bring no change, maybe change an angle of the scams, but no change.
Vote for Green Party or Ron Paul.
Go Green!
Peace.
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:16 am
fax Conyers to subpoena Hersh.
what he is holding back affects all of our lives,and is more valuable than just a “story” decision.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:36 am
Dr. Jason Dodson is a Freemason cultist, fascist, and disinformation agent who trolls this website and reports bloggers to the National Security Administration.
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 am
To Ken In Dublin; Your post is entirely TOO long. And thanks for reitering THE BLEEDING OBVIOUS. I’m glad you watched Loose Change. I am MORE interested in your comments about Ireland being forced to join the European Union…75 words or less…PLEASE (your post is a joke right?)
August 2nd, 2008 at 12:56 pm
manbearpig;
If you work for an employer, you pay taxes. I’m not talking about filing in April (which, for most of the truthers, would mean getting money back…so if they don’t file, they are letting the government keep money due them). I’m talking about the roughly 30% that your employer takes directly from your paycheck even before you see it. Nice dodge, BTW.
So the question stands; Why do you allow a significant portion of your income to be given to an organization you think killed 3,000 of its own citizens and is trying to kill and/or enslave you? How fucking stupid is that!?
Can you answer that question? Can others?
Hi, fan. Revolutionary soldiers? If I thought the American Government killed 3,000 of its own citizens and was trying to kill/enslave me, I certainly wouldn’t combat them by GIVING THEM MONEY I EARN and typing on message boards.
By the way, manbearpig, this isn’t about 41% of those who are exempt (in whatever manner) from paying taxes. This about YOU and other truthers and members of this message board who DO give their income to the U.S. Government. Nice dodge again.
My question: Why do YOU (a general you, not a specific you) give your taxes to the evil, criminal U.S. Government?
Your response: Other people don’t.
??
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:19 pm
I have it from “a Prison Planet insider” that Alex Jones is an NWO tool charged with pacifying truthers into continuing to pay their taxes and do nothing but post on message boards. Well done, Alex. Well done.
August 2nd, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Dear readers,
Hello and cheers!
I am absolutely amazed that among 7 billion population on this prison planet, nobody can deduce the truth of Islamic regime in Iran.
Look here, in a nutshell, the world HAD and HAS only one unique “government” that plays all the cards.you can call it Illuminati or whatever. when they decided to end the manufactured military-industrial wars between eastern and western blocks in the mid 70’s,they planned to create a TERRORIST HUB in the region to CONTINUE with the role of the soviet union in another guise.
What really happened is that they created an eastern enemy in the beginning of 20th.century( Russian Revolution) to achieve these two goals:
1- Creation of Ordo ab chao, that is ,to force all the eastern countries and all the western countries gather in 2 united blocks, the East and the West.
The role of Soviet Union as a dummy regime was to confront Europe and USA and strenghten the huge military-industrial complex to create the world’s first superpower capabilities in the USA.After the soviet union role was fulfilled in the end of 70’s, there came the time to unite the now united east with the united west under one umbrella and there were no need for more superpower capabilities because it now existed in a huge and invincible complex in the USA.
==============
Now the final stage must take place such that when the superpower capabilities were completed, then it is the time to strenghten the NATIONAL SECURITY sector , that is,to create the final scene in terms of seizing all levers of power and declaring a martial law and global dictatorship by criminalization of each and every citizen.In this stage you see at least 16 USA national security agencies working together.
Now what you need to create this status as you did in case of soviet union? a HUB in the middle east to terrorize and demoralize the world and specially the USA citizens.THAT IS the role of the islamic republic in Iran.
==============
Remember 2 years before Iranian revolution , Muammar Qadhafi with CIA financing, produced the movie “Mohammad Rasoul ollah” starring Anthony Quinn that showed Islamic movements come forward and conquer.
before the Iranian revolution, Muammar Qadhafi aided by CIA money,bought Cassius Kelley the Boxer to change his faith to Islam and become Mohammad Ali.
Then 1 year before the revolution, there was a big promotional theatre about the world boxing champion ship and all the middle east watched as the “Moslem” boxer knocked down the “American” one.And of course do not forget that in the coming years, the Rocky serial movies all were preparing the world for the same theater and this time the “American” knocked down the “Russian Bear” and predicted the soviet down fall in the 80’s.
Please just think! The Iranian IMAM Khomeini is promoted widely by the British BBC, settles in a nice Paris suburb to meet all the press and give false promises to every body, and then flies to Iran in a French plane , gets on an American Chevrolet Blazer and heads to cemetery!!!
Don’t you see what has happened? Iranian regime (simultaneously with Saddam Hossein and Taliban in Iraq and Afghanistan) was the substitute for the soviet dissolution but this time not to strenghten the military power but to create too much terror to make grounds for USA police state and EU dictatorship which will be declared very soon indeed.
=============================
To affirm my opinion , just think that this IMAM ( meaning a religious leader) from the start had nothing to do with the religion and instead of talking about the religious matters was always shouting against the USA and Israel and so on and spending the country’s oil money for terrorist activities in the region.He was just a puppet of the Illuminati and shadow government in the USA.
Don’t you see that Iranian regime has been in great crisis and tribulation everyday since its advent 30 years ago?
Don’t you see that USA threats are going on for 30 years and NOTHING HAPPENS AT ALL?
Please come to your senses and do not forget that all political matters going on in the world are controlled by one and only one center.(You can call it Anti-Christ,Illuminati,Dajjal or whatever.)
Please see my website for a better explanation:
http://www.freewebs.com/mindcontrolvictim
Thank you and goodbye.
August 2nd, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Aren’t brains amazing? Science…or God, whichever you believe…gave human beings such a wonder artifact, capable of such wonderous, fantastic creations and machinations. If you doubt my reasoning, just read (if you can tolerate it) midea midea’s above post.
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Definitely the story of the week was the astounding revelation of
of senior Nasa official Clark McClelland.
McClelland supported astronaut Ed Mitchell’s claim that the military was interacting with alien races.
McClelland revealed that he saw an 8 to 9 alien in the shuttle docking bay on his moniter during a classified shuttle mission.
He also witnessed a UFO locked in a stationary orbit with the shuttle.
You can find the full story under the links button at;
http:///hismailroom.com
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:27 pm
It is time to wake up everyone
Goodness cannot be betrayed this way
The criminals like Cheney and «BUSHES NEED TO BE TAKEN OUT OF POWER
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:22 pm
“Kcuhc” - are you suggesting a tax-revolt of some sort, or what’s your point?
Meanwhile another, longer quote from the same article I once, or twice quoted already(EMPHASIS added):
“…41 percent of the U.S. population — will be COMPLETELY outside the federal income tax system in 2006. This total includes those who pay NO tax, and those who pay some tax upfront and are later refunded the FULL amount of the tax paid or MORE.”
Now, you’re free to understand the article any “fauxian” way you want - after all, you live in a “faux-land of the free” - but to me it still means what it actually says - that is, of all the taxes paid by some 91 million (low-income) Americans, the goverment ultimately won’t and can’t keep a dime.
And if your problem is that many of the so called “truthers” may indeed be within the 91 million Americans mentioned in the article - and who ultimately get all of their tax-dollars back - well, that’s your (and your goverment’s) problem, not mine.
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:06 pm
In my previous post I wrote about the “91 million Americans” - should have been “over 120 million” - sorry.
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:23 pm
manbearpig;
I’m talking about the truthers WHO DO PAY TAXES, AND DON’T GET ALL OF IT BACK. Alex Jones is the prime example.
And even though some people might get all of it back, the government still makes money from their taxed income (investments, etc.). So, although the individual tax payers see a net zero sum, the government uses the temporary–interest free–loan to make money from the money. Either way, they are supporting the government financially.
I am not suggesting a tax revolt as that would be illegal. I am wondering, however, why people (truthers, Alex Jones, yourself) who think the U.S. Government killed 3,000 of its own citizens and is trying to kill/enslave them, willingly fund the U.S. Government by giving them money taxed from their income.
Quit simple actually. If I thought they were trying to kill me, I wouldn’t keep giving them money to do it!
kd
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:30 pm
“Kcuhc” - let’s suppose Alex Jones pays a lot of taxes but does not get all of it back - now in your opinion, what can - or what should he do about it?
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Again;
I am not urging a tax revolt, as that would be illegal. However, I am wondering why truthers don’t stage a tax revolt to deprive the government of one of its main sources of income–especially since they think federal income tax is illegal anyway.
August 2nd, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Easy. If he truly believes the U.S. Government killed 3,000 of its own citizens and is trying to kill/enslave him—I mean really, really believes–he should stop paying his taxes.* Why give an organization money they will use to acheive their nefarious devices? I would. If I really, really believed it. And I’m wondering why Alex doesn’t.
*I am not advocating Alex to stop paying his taxes. Alex, keep paying your taxes like a good, obedient citizen.
August 3rd, 2008 at 12:18 am
KCUHC OBVIOUSLY YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT ALEX AND OTHER “TRUTHERS ” KNOW
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DO NOT OPERATE THE GOVERNMENT WITH THE “INCOME TAX MONEY” IT CREATES MONEY BY PRINTING IT OR ISSUING IT OUT OF THIN AIR THROUGH THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM , THE “FEDS” IS A PRIVATE BANKING CARTEL SO GUESS WHAT, IT CHARGES UNCLE SAM FOR IT, YEAH THE US GOVERNMENT IS PAYING A PRIVATE BANK TO ISUE HIS OWN CURRENCY SO SOMEBODY HAS TO COME UP WITH THAT MONEY.
THE FEDERAL INCOME TAX WAS CREATED IN 1913, THE FEDERAL RESERVE WAS CREATED IN…..YOU GUESSED IT, DECEMBER 1913. SUCKER! THEY FORCE YOU TO PAY THE INCOME TAX NOT TO OPERATE THE COUNTRY BUT TO PAY THE BANK …AND THE INTERNATIONAL BANK OF SETTLEMENT BECAUSE UNCLE SAM DECLARED BANKRUPTCY SECRETLY IN 1933 YES UNCLE SAM IS LIKE A CORPORATION UNDER CHAPTER 11 SO GUESS WHO IS YOUR DADDY ? THE WORLD BANK, (AND IBS) AND THEIR AGENTS FROM THE FEDERAL RESERVE WHO PRINTS ON YOUR ONE DOLLAR BILL, (CHECK YOURSELF) UNDER THE PYRAMID IN LATIN :NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM, TRANSLATED IN ENGLISH:
NEW WORLD ORDER. YOU GOT IT NOW, THEY CONTROL BOTH SIDES !
August 3rd, 2008 at 1:31 am
everyone be careful. there are many valid points here about many polititians. does everyone appreciate the difference between the new world order, bilderbergers, global elite, illuminati, international bankers, and Zionism?
beware of the huge deception, a slight of hand. the thief at work in the chaos. the looter in the riot. never forget there are forces that need to keep the light off their projects. they need the collective rage directed at the usual suspects. yes these usual suspects are no good, but please look carefully. someone in that list above is passing the hot potato. they have no national affiliation. they care less about any nation. in chaos they will achieve victory whether or not the usual suspects get prosectured, jailed, etc. keep your eye on the eye watching the eye of the pyramid.
don’t be decieved. dont be fooled. stay the course.
August 3rd, 2008 at 3:15 am
“Kcuhc”,
1. let’s suppose Jones et al. stopped paying taxes altogether - and which could be seen from the goverment’s point of view as an illegal tax-revolt, by the way - would it actually make the problem (the unscostitutional federal reserve & fiat-money system) go away?
2. what would the result of such a revolt be - let alone the benefits?
3. by revolting the way you’re “not” suggesting, people might end up in prison - now, in your opinion, would that be a “better” way not to support the US-goverment?
4. since you don’t seem to appreciate what A. Jones et al. are doing at all - why are you here?
August 3rd, 2008 at 10:43 am
manbearpig;
1. If enough people did it, yes.
2. I cannot forsee such things. But remember, they are trying to kill/enslave you. It would make that task much more difficult.
3. manbearpig, come on. (according to Alex and many others) the U.S. Government is TRYING TO KILL AND/OR ENSLAVE US ALL!! Are you going to let yourself be cowed by the threat of jail time if that’s the case. How are you going “to take your country back” when you’re afraid of a little jail time!? You cut off their money and when they come to arrest you, if what you say and believe are true–about the killing/enslaving—, you take appropriate action.
4.I’m discussing stuff. That’s all.
REY;
If 100% of Americans’ income tax goes to the Federal Reserve, where does the money come from to fund a military, build and maintain highways, provide student loans, provide services such as the FAA, Welfare, Social Security, etc.? Where does this money come from REY?
Let’s keep it simple;
Where does the U.S. Government get the money to pay its military members their salary?
August 3rd, 2008 at 11:06 am
Sorry manbearpig, but I just can’t get over the mentality.
Man: The U.S. Government is trying to kill me.
Other man: What’re you going to do about it.
Man: Fight it, of course.
Other man: But they’ll put in prison.
Man: Oh shit! I didn’t think about that. I guess I’ll just let them kill me. I have no alternative. I certainly don’t want to do any prison time.
Other man: Sounds like a wise plan.
August 3rd, 2008 at 1:29 pm
“Kcuhc”: “1. If enough people did it, yes.”
Exactly - “if” enough people did it - but hey - do you think there are enough people yet that are even aware of the problem?
Why start a revolt of any kind if/when there just aren’t enough people behind it yet?
But then again you already know the answers as your only purpose here is to repeat the standard BS from your spooker’s manual in order to distract and provoke people, eh?
I think you are “virtual” proof of perpetual motion; recycling the same BS over and over without losing any energy whatsoever - it’s amazing!
August 3rd, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Quotation by manbearpig:
“Exactly - “if” enough people did it”
That’s my WHOLE FUCKING POINT DUDE!!!!! Hardly any truthers do it despite their beliefs. Jesus Christ!!
Quotation by manbearpig:
“Why start a revolt of any kind if/when there just aren’t enough people behind it yet?”
Yeah. There’s not enough people, so I’m just going to tolerate the oppression. Fantastic mentality, dude.
Quotation by manbearpig:
“But then again you already know the answers as your only purpose here is to repeat the standard BS from your spooker’s manual in order to distract and provoke people, eh?
I think you are “virtual” proof of perpetual motion; recycling the same BS over and over without losing any energy whatsoever - it’s amazing!”
You’re obviously out of argument…not that you had any to start. The key indicator of someone who is not too bright is he who, in response to a logical argument, spuriously assails the adversary’s intellect and motivation instead of the well founded argument.
Anytime you want to *try* to answer the paradox of why most truthers fear for their lives/liberties from the U.S. Government yet still pay them tax money and only attack them on message board, you go ahead. Otherwise…and based on your last post…I’m going to assume that you’re just another idiot who can’t reconcile the contradiction I keep arguing…probably because you can’t reconcile it to yourself and it frustrates you.
Understood.
August 3rd, 2008 at 6:21 pm
You don’t seem to want to understand that it takes time to reach a “critical mass” - literally - necessary for a change of this magnitude. Afterall we’re talking about an awakening and a revolution on a global scale.
Until then it’s unnecessary to make one’s life more difficult than it already is - meaning there’s just one thing to do right now and that is spreading the word. Once the critical mass will be reached, things will evolve more or less naturally.
Now you either get it or you don’t - it’s really up to you and you only.
And indeed - instead of just “wondering” and repeating your ad hominem style “paradox” here, you could try doing your own research and if/when someday you do understand what it’s all about - and besides paying taxes - you won’t be ask that question anymore and which for some reason you find relevant.
But hey, since I’m the idiot here and you obviously aren’t, I guess we’re done, eh?
August 3rd, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Yup!
August 4th, 2008 at 12:30 am
Right from the start I thought there were 3 possibilities as to what you - “Kcuhc” - could be all about:
1. Someone who really wants to understand something here - but which I figured - from your “them-the-stupid-truthers” style and attitude - to be the least likely alternative of the 3.
2. Someone who is already too dumbed down by the system and which again means any attempts to try to explain anything might - and indeed did - turn out to be pointless - but - which again makes the number,
3. possible as well - and that is that you are a disinfo agent - and of which I just learned about a few days ago at http://www.drjudywood.com/arti.....sinfo.html
August 4th, 2008 at 9:57 am
You’re all right kid. Keep up the good fight! lol
August 4th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Kc… now, seriously - tell me why are you here? Don’t you have any friends or hobbies or what is it?
August 4th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Sorry, I was a fool.
I will support Alex Jones and truthers.
Please forgive me.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
I am manbearpig.
My body is man. My spirit is bear. My intellect is pig.
I am manbearpig.
August 4th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Again, manbearpig and other truthers, I am sorry and I will never ever again post anything about the taxes.
Go,Alex!
You are my hero now.
I will not work for NWO again.
Go, truthers, you are my heroes, too!
August 5th, 2008 at 5:35 am
Kc… for being a disinfo perp you’re doing a pretty shitty job - emphasis on the word shitty, by the way - and you certainly do deserve credit for that.
But is it because you aren’t paid good enough - or - because you don’t even believe yourself the BS that you keep posting here - or - a bit of both?
Just following orders in the command-chain of fools?
August 6th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Preface
When I began to work on this thesis, some two semesters and a summer ago, I was afraid that I would find far too little to fill the following pages. On reflection, I was wrong.
The following is a working draft of my thesis, that is to say, a work that is by no means finished. I know this is so, because there are numerous things left untouched and many books still unopened.
However, one of these glaring omissions will be remedied in the next iteration following the submission to the department of economics of this particular draft. On March 16th, 1995, I acquired a copy of Remy Prud’homme’s L’economie du Cambodge (1969). The draft which you are reading does not contain changes and additions which I plan to make in the next major revision. It is, therefore, a work written in the absence of Prud’homme’s colossal contribution to the study of Cambodia’s economy under Sihanouk.
A serious student might refrain himself or herself from releasing this working draft before having made these important changes; yet, strangely, having read through L’economie du Cambodge these past few days, I feel that the major conclusions reached in “Cambodia’s Economic Development and History: A Contribution to the Study of Cambodia’s Economy” (dated March 22, 1995) would not be radically altered or substantively changed. Of course, there would have been added tons of new and relevant statistics, not to mention the wonderfully telling words of Prud’homme himself in this draft, but again, the general conclusions drawn in the fifth chapter of this thesis echo, quite independently, some of the same conclusions he drew twenty-six years ago, in 1969.
In chapter 20, the conclusion of his book, Prud’homme concludes, among “a” through “h”, the following:
“c) Au cours des dix dernieres annees [depuis 1959] est nee une industrie au Cambodge … d) Le Cambodge jouit d’une monnaie saine mais menacee … g) La situation des finances publiques [l'infrastructure et l'education] n’est pas sans poser quelques problemes … h) L’economie du Cambodge s’est developpee depuis l’Independance a un rythme saitisfaisant, mai qui semble avoir tendance a diminuer. [trans. c) For the last ten years [since 1959] an industry was born in Cambodia … d) Cambodia enjoyed a sound but menaced currency … g) The situation of public finance [infrastructure and education] is not without its problems … h) Since independence, Cambodia’s economy has developed at a satisfactory rhythm, but with a tendency to diminish.]”[1]
It is hoped that the reader will see these findings reflected in my own conclusions nearly three decades after the fact.
Sophal Ear
March 22, 1995
Acknowledgments
The genesis for research on this thesis was a vision in cyberspace. The idea of using the Internet to search the entire world’s localized networks was one which I had wanted to try ever since subscribing to Mr. Parker’s Southeast Asia list “Seasia-L.” I am eternally grateful to the dozens of individuals on Seasia-L who made research for this paper so much more exciting and rewarding. By sending e-mails of both encouragement and help, I could not have asked for more. Their faces I have never seen and may never see, but it is to their illimitable minds I shall always feel obliged.
For help with archival research, I would like to thank Steve Denney of the Indochina Archive, Donald Donato of the World Bank’s Indochina division for information gathered on my behalf at the Bank, Craig Etcheson of CORKR, and Virginia Shih at the South-Southeast Asia Library here at UC Berkeley. For information on to the Cambodian educational and banking system in the 1960s and 1970s, I am grateful to Mr. Peth Lim.
For the theories of economic growth chapter, I especially thank Professor Alain de Janvry for our office hour discussions and his exceptional economic development class from which I learned so very much.
Saving the very best for last, I would like to thank my advisor Professor Martha Olney, the one person whose time and effort went into mentoring me, proof-reading drafts, and making numerous suggestions for this thesis. Without her invaluable help steering my work, I would not have so enjoyed researching and writing the following pages. I’m certain that the final product would have otherwise been nothing short of catastrophic.
Sophal Ear
Oakland, CA
Dedication
This thesis is dedicated to a nation still in mourning: to all of Cambodia.
CHAPTER 1: INTRODUCTION
Le Cambodge ne veut pas mourir . . . Le Cambodge ne doit pas mourir. [trans. Cambodia does not want to die . . . Cambodia must not be allowed to die.]
–Jean Delvert, 1983
Ever since the first Industrial Revolution in Britain, economists have endeavored to model how countries develop. With economic development comes a longer life-expectancy, better education, a higher standard of living, and generally speaking–progress. Beginning with Adam Smith, who believed that the division of labor would cut production costs and give workers dexterity, to Karl Marx who saw industrialization in a Hegelian synthesis and, therefore, as a necessary part of history, the study of economic development continues to chart new chapters in our understanding of how and why countries industrialize. While there are striking similarities among the successful few, namely land, socio-political, and institutional reforms, following an agricultural revolution in which surplus labor is released into industry, the varying factor endowments, political culture, timing, and strength of institutions all make each country’s industrialization experience somewhat unique. Relative economic backwardness and timing in development, notions first introduced by Alexander Gerschenkron in his ground-breaking book of essays Economic Backwardness in Historical Perspective (1962), tell us that for France, Germany, and Russia in the 19th century, the process of development took different degrees of state intervention which depended upon such factors as the presence of financial institutions, and how late they were to industrialize. But what of the Kingdom of Cambodia in the 20th century?
Today, numerous former European colonies in Asia and Africa that were given independence in the aftermath of the Second World War seem to fill the ranks of the poorest countries in the world, deemed to be “underdeveloped” by some, and “less-developed” by others.[2] Srok Khmer, Cambodja, the Khmer Republic, Democratic Kampuchea, the People’s Republic of Kampuchea are only some of the past and present names a small former French colony better known as Cambodia has been called in the last two millennia. Cambodia can today be counted among the least developed and poorest countries in Asia, or for that matter the world. Cambodia’s economy is more agrarian today than it was in 1968. With less than $200 in per capita gross national product (GNP), Cambodia ranks 115th out of 122 countries. Faring hardly better in the composite Human Development Index (HDI) which uses educational attainment and life expectancy, in addition to income, Cambodia ranks 96th out 122 with only 49.7 years in life-expectancy.[3]
This thesis attempts to answer the following questions: According to standard theories of economic development, namely the Harrod-Domar and dual sector economy models, what factors led to Cambodia’s failure to industrialize in the 1950s and 1960s? What could she have done? And what can she do today, given her economic history?
The factors that contributed to Cambodia’s failure to industrialize range from the level of saving to the role of agriculture. Accordingly, the thesis attempts to demonstrate their presence or absence during two periods in Cambodia’s economic history: (1) the Sihanouk years of 1953 to 1970 and (2) the current period (1979-1994).
In the center of Southeast Asia, bordering Thailand on the west and Vietnam on the east, Cambodia is a country slightly smaller than Oklahoma.[4] Unlike her two giant neighbors whose populations have reached 70 million each, Cambodia’s population is small, with only ten million people mostly of Khmer ethnicity. Cambodia’s economy is characterized by the myriad of small plots which cover the 16% of arable land she has. Rice, the staple food of most Asian diets, has long been Cambodia’s primary agricultural output. The economy, like that of many backward countries, is entrenched in agriculture, which controls 80% of its labor force. Any industrial progress made before 1975 was destroyed when admirers of China’s chairman Mao Zedong took power and agriculturally collectivized the Cambodian economy. From 1975 to 1979, money was officially banned,[5] banks were closed, private property was illegal, and the official year for 1975 was zero.
Although most of her contemporary history would suggest otherwise, Cambodia was not always an economic and political disaster area. Broadly speaking, the history of Cambodia’s economy can be divided into three parts: (1) the Khmer pre-colonial period (prior to 1884), (2) the French Colonial experience (1884-1953),[6] and (3) the post-colonial aftermath (1953-present).
In the third period, Cambodia has undergone a number of upheavals including a Vietnamese occupation, a coup d’etat, and a bloody Maoist revolution that is estimated to have killed anywhere from 750,000 to 1.5 million Cambodians. During that time, and to this day, five different regimes have governed the country: (1) King Norodom Sihanouk’s “Kingdom of Cambodia,” from 1953 to 1970; (2) Lon Nol’s “Khmer Republic,” from 1970 to 1975; (3) Pol Pot’s “Democratic Kampuchea,” from 1975 to 1979; (4) the Vietnamese Occupation in which the country was re-named “The People’s Republic of Kampuchea,” from 1980 to 1989; and (5) the current period (following the State of Cambodia which lasted from 1989 to 1991) of Royal co-governance with two Prime Ministers and a democratically-elected parliament. However, political disorder, as even the forefathers of the American Constitution understood in 1789, has never been known to foster an environment in which property rights could be preserved or where economic growth might be sustained. Likewise, in Cambodia.
The chapters on Cambodia’s economy divide her history into two major periods: (1) before 1970 in which Cambodia was at peace (Chapter 3: A Brief History of Cambodia’s Antebellum Economy) and (2) after 1970 in which her economy was devastated by war and revolution (Chapter 4: The Post-Sihanouk Cambodian Economy). The emphasis placed in these chapters is on giving the reader an idea of where Cambodia’s economy stood in each period (using figures on education, microenterprises, and agricultural output) and to a lesser extent on strict macroeconomic data which, even if available, lack validity. For instance, two original sources used in this thesis are propangadistic publications of the early 1970s, Cambodge and Khmer Republic.7 They are offered in conjunction with secondary sources of more definite origins.
Many books have been written about Cambodia, but few have been on her economy. In the late 1950s, a young Cambodian student named Khieu Samphan wrote an economics dissertation in which he argued that Cambodia’s problems of industrialization were the direct consequence of exploitation by the “imperialist” industrialized world.[8] This World Systems approach, forwarded by the Egyptian Marxist economist Amin Samir (1957), resolved that only autarky from the world system would result in the industrialization of the Third World. This theoretical framework combined with Maoism (especially in the aftermath of the Cultural Revolution) became the bedrock for a revolutionary movement called the “Khmer Rouge,” or Red (communist) Khmer. Although everyone today agrees that what Samphan called for in his doctoral dissertation, namely autarky in the form of “self-conscious autonomous development,” never became the actual master plan for the bloody and murderous reign of the Khmer Rouge (of which he had become second in command behind Pol Pot), his thesis still remains the most famous work of Cambodian economic development by any Khmer.[9]
To be sure, this thesis uses more conventional theories of development while at the same time qualifying these with the mention that they do not entirely “fit” Cambodia’s special circumstances and cannot therefore be taken prima facie. The theory chapter which follows this introduction serves as an indicator of what factors are important to economic growth, especially for Cambodia, and how the models themselves function. Equally important is the examination of the literature in economic history chapters (3 and 4).
Work on the post-settlement situation and the rebuilding of Cambodia has flourished in the aftermath of the Paris Peace Accord of 1991 in which Vietnam agreed to withdraw from Cambodia. The World Bank published a country survey on Cambodia in 1992, almost twenty years since it last examined the country. Most recently, the Royal Government of Cambodia issued a policy outline titled National Program to Rehabilitate and Develop Cambodia (1994). In addition, some non-governmental organizations (NGOs) have teamed-up under the umbrella group named Cooperation Committee for Cambodia to write sectoral position papers which were delivered at the second meeting of the International Committee on the Reconstruction of Cambodia in Tokyo in early March 1994.
It is within this context that my work begins. The prospects for Cambodian economic development cannot be achieved until more Cambodians take part in the process of studying the Cambodian economy and its problems of industrialization just as Samphan’s dissertation attempted to do for Cambodia in 1959. The Cambodian economy is still very marred by over two decades of war and destruction, but since the departure of Vietnam’s troops from Cambodia, and a subsequently successful democratic election sponsored the United Nations Transitory Authority on Cambodia (UNTAC) in 1992, Cambodia’s economy has the potential to finally “take-off.”
In sum, this honors thesis presents a brief history of Cambodia’s economy contained within a review of the literature and data in chapters 3 and 4. Chapter 2 reviews the cornerstone theories of economic growth and their application to Cambodia. Finally, though not intended to directly critique Khieu Samphan’s dissertation, my conclusion (chapter 5) attempts to juxtapose our contrasting assumptions and theoretical framework.
CHAPTER 2: THEORIES OF ECONOMIC GROWTH
The overriding objective of the Royal Government is to achieve a fair, just and peaceful society and, through accelerating the rate of economic growth, to raise the living standards of all Cambodians. In short, the Government is striving to achieve sustainable growth with equity and social justice.
National Programme to Rehabilitate and Develop Cambodia, February 1994
In the course of economic development, industrialized countries have taken many twists and turns. It would be tempting to characterize development as merely path-dependent, “historical” or unique for all countries. But this simply isn’t the whole story. To be sure, there are innumerable differences in how countries industrialize–just as there are similarities. For Cambodia, this will not be different. With the exception of OPEC countries (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Brunei, etc.), the role of natural resources has paled in comparison to labor, capital and technology, because most countries are simply not natural resource gold mines. The industrialized countries of the world have undergone transformations which have taken them from agricultural to industrial economies. And from there, it would seem, the move to services has already taken place for the United States. This is not to say, however, that America is no longer agricultural (one need only look at Kansas and Nebraska).[10] Forward, backward, and final linkages are indubitably important since the agricultural, industrial, and services sectors all contribute to one another.[11] This chapter intends to draw a brief outline from the theoretical works of a number of development economists in order to set the foundation for the application of these theories to the case of Cambodia in both the past and the present context (see chapters 3 and 4).
The Agricultural Context
We begin our analysis with an evolutionary model of the path of agriculture’s contribution to economic growth by presenting Peter C. Timmer’s “The Agricultural Transformation” (1988). Timmer’s conceptual framework integrates four economic “environments” from Mosher’s to D.G. Johnson’s. “The four phases in the agricultural transformation call for different policy approaches. In the earliest stage of development the concern must be for `getting agriculture moving’, to use Arthur Mosher’s vivid phrase [Mosher (1966)].”[12] In the Mosher environment, a country begins to develop by investing heavily into agriculture, a process colloquially called “priming the pump.” This means investing into the agricultural sector cost-saving and efficiency-improving technologies and capital in order to increase the production output and/or decrease agricultural labor capacity (i.e., to free workers from the countryside) later. During this phase of development, agriculture experiences reduced resource extraction because resources are funneled into it instead. Although Timmer notes “A significant share of a country’s investable resources may well be extracted from agriculture at this stage . . . this is because the rest of the economy is so small. Direct or indirect taxation of agriculture is the only significant source of government revenue.”[13]
The agricultural build-up’s purpose is to produce an agricultural or green revolution, following which the agricultural sector undergoes resource extraction. Like an industrial revolution, a green revolution does not happen overnight. But when it does happen, a country becomes relatively efficient and self-sufficient in at least the production of food and other agricultural products. In this latter phase called the “Johnston-Mellor environment,” agriculture becomes a “contributor” to industry and thus economic growth. Timmer cites agriculture’s establishment of market linkages with industry.[14] We shall see the case of Cambodia to be a peculiar one, for that country may have regressed to a less developed economic state after 1970. For the 1950s and 1960s, the country experienced the beginnings of a “Johnston-Mellor environment,” because public, private, and hybrid industrial enterprises (industries, per se) were forming in a sea of rice, rubber, and other agricultural products. Today, Cambodia may actually be back to the “Mosher” phase once more (when “priming the pump” of agriculture takes place). There are few precedents for this, and fewer instances still of successful development (this late in the game). Therefore, the main analytic emphasis will be placed on the past because things were then less complicated or mired for Cambodia. Were there to have been no starvation, war, or revolution in Cambodia during the 1970s, the bulk of this paper would have likely focused its attention on these years instead. The theories of economic growth examined next all relate to an economy past the Mosher environment (beyond the green revolution). The implications for which include the possibility for industrialization and rapid economic growth.
Three Growth Theories
Theories of economic growth abound.[15] Modern theories have divided themselves into three types, stressing one of three factors: (1) civil institutions, (2) the State, (3) the market. This thesis examines three cornerstone economic models that have wide-ranging implications for the market and the State, and to a lesser extent for civil institutions. They are the Harrod-Domar, the Solow growth, and the Dual Sector Economy models (which includes classical and neoclassical components). Although the mechanics will be stressed, it is the economic and policy implications that will be central to our analysis of Cambodia’s economy, past and present.
The Harrod-Domar Model
Developed by Roy F. Harrod and Evsey Domar in the late 1940s, the Harrod-Domar model follows a Keynesian framework that emphasizes factors believed responsible for economic growth (among them, the capital stock, investment, the marginal propensity to save and so forth).[16] The variables in the model are defined as follows:
Variabl Definition
e
Y output
K stock of capital
k capital-output ratio, also called the
incremental capital output ratio or ICOR
I investment
S level of savings, which equals investment
s marginal propensity to save
g rate of growth
[[Delta "change in"
]]
The structural form of the model consists of four equations:
Equation Explanation
1) Change in income is proportional to the change in the stock in
[[Delta]]Y=(1 capital divided by the capital output ratio.
/k)[[Delta]]K
2) is the ICOR (incremental capital output ratio) and is constant if
k=[[Delta]]K/ output is proportional to the stock of capital
[[Delta]]Y
3) S=sY The level of saving in the economy is equal to marginal
propensity to save multiplied by income. Since there are assumed
to be no taxes, all income is disposable
4) The level of saving in the economy is equal to the level of
S=I=[[Delta]] investment, therefore, all investment comes from saving, which is
K all used to increase the capital stock. The economy is at this
point assumed “closed” to the rest of the world and without a
government sector.
The reduced form of the model follows:
g = [[Delta]]Y/Y = 1/k ([[Delta]]K/Y) = 1/k (S/Y)= 1/k (s Y/Y) = s/k
The rate of growth in income is the ratio of the marginal propensity to save over the capital output ratio.
The Harrod-Domar model is very simple. Among its assumptions are the following: (1) the economy in question is closed to foreign capital flows and has no government sector and (2) the capital-output ratio, k, remains constant. The incremental capital output ratio or ICOR is the incremental capital needed to increase output by one unit. The ICOR contains the fundamental relationship between capital and output, and plays a central role in determining the rate of growth “g” (as defined by Harrod-Domar). The lower the ICOR, the higher the growth rate will be. The ICOR is therefore very important because it tells policy-makers that the intensity of labor in production should be high.
Economic And Policy Implications
The structural form of the Harrod-Domar model where growth equals “s/k” tells us that in order to accelerate the rate of growth, “g”, either one of two things or both must happen: “s”, the marginal propensity to save must increase, or “k”, the capital-output ratio must decrease. In other words, the rate of saving must increase, thereby increasing the amount invested; and/or less capital should be used in production of output (i.e., capital is more productive). In order to increase the marginal propensity to save, saving must be incentive compatible (or made to be such). Real interest rates should be high enough to induce individuals to save, but not so high as to shift investment away from productive capital.[17] At the same time, if wealthier people are likely to save more than those who are less wealthy–since they can afford to do so–this means concentrating wealth in their hands.
In order for any investment to take place, financial institutions must be present. Farmers, for instance, hold most of their wealth in the form of livestock.[18] This prevents the funds, which would potentially be saved in banks, from being invested into other sectors. Therefore, in developing countries, private or public financial institutions must be created. In Japan, the Postal Savings System was created for the purpose of increasing the level of saving. For Japanese investors, Postal Savings is the only tax-free investment available, making it the “world’s biggest repository of private savings and a model for capital hungry industrialisers throughout the world.”[19] Other incentives to promote savings should likewise include tax-free interest earnings (thus increasing the effective interest rate). In Cambodia, a persistent problem since the inception of the Banque Nationale du Cambodge, the BNC (Cambodia’s central bank) in the early 1950s has been the low level of saving (as observed in ubiquitously shrinking BNC deposits) and conversely, the tendency for high consumption (as observed in chronic trade deficits).[20]
Civil Institutions to the Rescue?
Because of high transaction costs, the market for credit can be heavily distorted. The presence of traditional institutions such as alternative lending societies throughout Asia have proven effective in situations of credit scarcity. These associations are unregulated, but are well-known to exist in Taiwan, South Korea, and even the Chinatowns of American cities where small to medium enterprises have difficult access to credit.[21] These institutions serve the purpose of increasing the amount of credit available for lending and promote the economic activity that the Harrod-Domar model postulates will produce economic growth.[22] These institutions must be allowed to exist (if not encouraged to proliferate) in Cambodia despite their imperfections, since the establishment of credit banking takes time and investor confidence (especially outside the Capital, Phnom Penh).[23] Like banks, alternative lending associations offer gains from intertemporal borrowing to all whose net present value today from doing economic activity “x” (including consumption) is higher than it would be in the future at a prevailing interest rate “i”.[24]
Capital and Labor
In order to switch from capital-intensive to labor-intensive manufacturing, capital equipment must increase in price relative to wages (i.e., alternatively, a reduction in the wage level accomplishes the same outcome). Since “K” and “L” are assumed to be substitutes here, an increase in the price of capital would induce producers to utilize less capital (as opposed to labor). If the production function used is of a variable nature, where coefficients are in fact not fixed, the intensity of factor utilization will vary according to the price of the factors themselves. As in most developing countries, Cambodia likely suffers from underemployment,[25] or surplus labor, at least in the agricultural sector. Underemployment in agriculture implies low productivity per worker which means lower agricultural wages. It is important to note, though, that the labor which one expects to fill these labor-intensive jobs with will be unskilled. Gerschenkron was first to shatter the myth that backward countries necessarily industrialized by taking advantage of abundant and cheap labor:
Sometimes…the cheapness of labor is said to aid greatly in the process of industrialization. The actual situation, however, is more complex than would appear on the basis of simple models. . . [The] overriding fact to remember is that industrial labor, in the sense of a stable, reliable, and disciplined group that has cut the umbilical chord connecting it with the land and has become suitable for utilization in factories, is not abundant but extremely scarce in a backward country. Creation of an industrial labor force that really deserves its name is a most difficult and protracted process.[26]
To further reduce the use of capital intensive manufacturing techniques in favor of labor intensive ones, employers should maximize the efficiency of the capital stock they do have, i.e., reduce excess capacity. This can be accomplished in several ways: for instance, moving production from a single shift to two or three shifts thereby employing as many workers as possible, or alternatively, simply substituting labor for capital.
Prices and Wages
Lastly, the reduction of price distortions is essential–where there is an overvaluation of the currency, importing cheap capital goods from abroad becomes incentive compatible. In addition, the problem of high wages due to the institution of minimum wage laws, unionism, and the efficiency theory of wages (ETW) distort the neo-classical labor market equilibrium wage, where real wage equals the marginal revenue product of labor. Minimum wage laws and unions are classic economic distortions in a supply/demand schematic (causing a wage floor and monopoly, respectively) but ETW is less well-known. The efficiency theory of wages argues that employers have an incentive to pay workers more than the equilibrium wage because it will motivate that worker to put into his/her work effort that he/she might otherwise forsake.[27] The alternative to paying slightly above the market wage is supervision and coercion, both of which are costly and one of which is very morally questionable.
Harrod-Domar and Cambodia
In the last analysis, is the Harrod-Domar model realistic for Cambodia? As regards the interest rate and ICOR, Harrod-Domar does a decent job of prescribing internally consistent policies which will produce results that the model predicts. However, the facts that wage repression, the elimination of price distortions, and the creation of more savings are very difficult, if not impossible for Cambodia, makes the Harrod-Domar model a hard-to-swallow prescription. In areas where other models have flourished, Harrod-Domar fails completely because it does not address three major dilemmas for LDCs like Cambodia:
(1) the availability of foreign exchange
(2) the provision of public resources, i.e., public goods like schools, defense, infrastructure
(3) the creation of effective demand–not mere “want” without the wherewithal
Harrod-Domar’s deficiencies are numerous in this light, but the policy implications do offer valuable insights into how Cambodia should have leaned towards during the 1950s and 1960s and must lean today with respect to interest rates, prices and wages, and the use of capital intensive manufacturing.
THE SOLOW GROWTH MODEL
In 1956, economist Robert Solow of MIT developed a classic model of growth.[28] The model, which had implications for balanced growth and technology, can be presented in at least two ways: (1) using a Keynesian national income identity function along with the critical condition that net savings equal net investment[29] and (2) using a capital, labor, land, aggregate production function (in which case factor shares must be econometrically estimated).[30] For the purpose of this thesis, the second method will be used (albeit without the empirical backing necessary) since it incorporates elements which are directly relevant to observations and data on the Cambodian economy in the Sihanouk Era.
In that case, income is made to equal a Cobb-Douglas (C-D) aggregate production function. Output is a function composed of factor endowments which equals national income.
Where, Y = F (K, L, T, A) in which:
Y = national income
F is a function (of the Cobb-Douglas variety)
K = capital stock
L = labor stock
T = land stock (and natural resources)
A = increases in the productivity of factors
A generic C-D function is:
Y = A K[[alpha]] L[[beta]] T(1- [[alpha]] - [[beta]])
Where “A” is a coefficient attached to the productive capacity of capital, labor, and land. “[[alpha]]” and “[[beta]]” are the factor shares for capital and labor, respectively. Land’s factor share is the remainder (1- [[alpha]] - [[beta]]). Each factor share, represents in laymen’s term, the importance of each factor to growth per se, relative to the other factor shares.[31]
Taking the natural log of this Cobb-Douglas function yields the following:
ln Y = ln (A K[[alpha]] L[[beta]] T(1- [[alpha]] - [[beta]]))
= ln A + [[alpha]] ln K + [[beta]] ln L + (1- [[alpha]] - [[beta]]) ln T
In which case one can implicitly differentiate with respect to income (Y) and arrive at a rate of change format for the equation. Income growth becomes a function of factor shares times the contribution of each factor, that is, its rate of change:
%[[Delta]]Y = %[[Delta]]A + [[alpha]]%[[Delta]]K + [[beta]]%[[Delta]]L + (1- [[alpha]] - [[beta]])%[[Delta]]T
From this equation, all factors in the original function are accounted for, but there is what Solow calls an “unexplained residual” in %[[Delta]]A known as total factor productivity. This is precisely where technological change comes into play. Solow’s empirical analysis finally proved something most had known or suspected since the invention of the wheel: technology matters! Technology has improved the productivity of labor, capital, and land in unimaginable ways. Agriculture is made many times more productive when fertilizers are used. Computers have liberated white-collar workers (some would say imprisoned them) and so on. There is little that technology has not yet touched or revolutionized. Not only were land, capital and labor to be the ingredients to the broth of economic growth, but such had become the impact of technology.
Economic and Policy Implications
The Solow Growth model’s application to third world countries like Cambodia is not lost in its original design as a model for developed nations. One need not think of technology as merely computers, but as tractors and fertilizers. To be sure, technology isn’t everything, but policies meant to improve technological growth and productivity for Cambodia, in the form of technological transfers, education in basic science, etc. are all to be understood as contributors to growth. By plotting a longitudinal growth curve that has on one axis real GNP or GDP and the capital stock on the other axis, Solow was able to show that increases in the capital stock would produce growth that was larger than expected. Solow’s explanation: a residual which he concluded was mostly due to technology. Changes in each factor should, therefore, explain changes in the growth of income.[32] Solow’s growth model heightened the importance of technology for both advanced and less-developed countries. For Cambodia, where technology stood in the 1950s and 1960s is one aspect of its failure to grow in those decades.[33]
THE DUAL SECTOR ECONOMY MODEL
The dual sector economy model is actually two models in one. The first is the classical or Lewis dual sector economy model.[34] The second is the neo-classical dual sector economy model. Both models fall under the rubric of “dual sector economy” because they use the same variables and have to do with the same two sectors: agriculture and industry. Both models differ in only one respect: whether they assume the economy to be initially fully employed or underemployed. The Lewis turning point marks the instant at which an economy becomes fully employed, and separates the classical from the neo-classical model.
The basic assumptions of the dual sector classical economy model (a.k.a. Lewis model) are that (1) the agricultural sector exhibits surplus labor. This means that people are idle or working part-time only (in sum, “low productivity”). (2) That the marginal productivity of labor in agriculture is declining because stock of land is fixed (alternatively, the production function exhibits diminishing returns).[35] And (3) that wages in agriculture are determined exogenously. Because there is surplus labor in agriculture, the price of agricultural goods is not expected to increase until the marginal product of the last worker employed cannot be replaced with another identical worker of equal cost. Thus food prices will remain constant so long as there is underemployment in agriculture.
The Growth Mechanism
In both the classical and neoclassical models, the growth mechanism is triggered by increased industrial output which in turn increases profit and therefore investment. This investment, both models assume, is sent back into the stock of capital in industry. The loop is completed when that capital creates more demand for workers from agriculture.[36]
In the neo-classical model, full-employment is assumed. The wages offered to induce more workers into industry must increase, and so too must the wages of the agriculture sector. Why? Because the neo-classical dual sector model begins where the classical model ends (that is, past the Lewis turning point), full employment is assumed, and any labor transfers from agriculture to industry will cause a shortage in agricultural labor. That is, the cost of replacing the worker who has left for work in industry is no longer replaceable at the same subsistence real wage which once prevailed in agriculture. Wages there and in industry must go up.
Contrasting Assumptions and Logic
In order to understand the differences between the two models, their logic must be contrasted. The classical model assumes surplus labor in agriculture, a declining marginal product of labor in agriculture, and exogenously determined agricultural wages. The neo-classical model assumes a fully-employed economy which is at or beyond the Lewis turning point (the point at which full employment has been reached).
As was stated earlier, wages in agriculture are no longer exogenous in the model since they can now increase with the transfer of workers from agriculture into industry. This has implications for both the price of food and other agricultural products since the labor costs are going to increase under the neo-classical framework. Whereas the classical model relies on repressed wages to create the profit necessary to invest in more capital, the neo-classical model turns instead to technological change in agriculture. By increasing the productivity of agriculture, food prices can continue to decrease, thus minimizing pressure for nominal wage increases and keeping real wages (W/P) constant.
Policy And Economic Implications: Economic Growth versus Equity
The implications for Cambodia according to the classical dual economy model is that any repression of the wage in agriculture will increase the level of employment in industry which will help it reach the Lewis turning point more rapidly. This is what some have referred to as the welfare paradox, namely the fact that things must get worse before they get better for a country to industrialize. Income inequality which is low in agrarian economies (hence the oft-used phrase “poverty of equality”) gets worse during industrialization. The Kuznets inverted U shows that virtually all industrialized countries have gone from relatively low inequality to higher inequality (where the inverted U is maximized) and back down to less inequality in the post-industrial phase. This is true of the newly industrializing economies (NIEs) of East Asia: Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore, which have reached the threshold of inequality and are turning the corner towards less inequality today. For Cambodia, according to Etcheson, land holdings were becoming more concentrated until 1975. Such increasing inequity would indicate, perhaps, that Cambodia was only following the Kuznets inverted U and had not yet reached the maximum.
The neo-classical model is problematic in its assumption of full-employment, especially since most Third World countries like Cambodia have surplus labor,[37] but does offer a less severe solution than repressed wages: technological change in agricultural production. Since technology alleviates both the increase in real wages in agriculture and the price of agricultural output (especially the price of food), thus allowing continued transfer of labor from agriculture into industry without the necessity to increase real wages in either sector.[38]
How realistic is each model for Cambodia? From a purely ideological standpoint, the classical dual economy model has been relatively successful in capturing trends in both capitalist and communist countries. Countries from England to America have all undergone periods of primitive capitalist accumulation for economic growth to take place. The Second World (composed of the former Soviet Union and other socialist countries) renamed primitive capitalist accumulation the Law of Primitive Socialist Accumulation.[39] Evgeny Preobrazhensky invented the scissors under which Soviet labor (resource) was extracted from agriculture and transferred to industry–resulting in rapid economic growth for a few years.[40] In Soviet Russia, agriculture was squeezed by the State in more than one way: high prices for capital equipment, low prices for agricultural output, combined with collectivization. In non-totalitarian countries like Taiwan and South Korea, land reforms were instrumental in shifting labor to the cities (and so too were the enclosures movement in 18th century England to play a similar role). For Cambodian economic history, there were no such sweeping land reforms until 1975.
The neo-classical model is less draconian in its approach especially with the advent of the green revolution in industrialized countries. As Timmer’s agricultural development path shows, one singular event stands out: the fact that all countries which have industrialized have undergone a green revolution prior to an industrial one (with approximately 50 years in lag, but that has shrunk considerably with respect to the East Asian NIEs). The catalyst for an agricultural or green revolution comes when technology significantly increases the efficiency or extent of arable land as with the use, for instance, of fertilizers and modern implements (which make possible higher yields with fewer workers).
Whether the policy implications are realistic matters only if the assumptions made by the neo-classical model are realistic themselves. To be sure, full-employment is not realistic for Cambodia past or present, but then so too are repressive labor tactics. In the last analysis, these models outline “ideal types” in ideal theoretical worlds. But the value of dual sector, Harrod-Domar, and Solow models within Timmer’s greater agricultural context is in their outline of what one can expect given a reduced multitude of factors: L, K, T, and A. Although their simplicity betrays their actual usefulness, the importance of the factors and conditions they elucidate continues to grow still. As the next two chapters on Cambodia’s economic development and history will show, critical factors such as the level of savings, investment in public goods and purchasing power (as it relates to the real wage) were inadequate during the short few years (1953-1970) in which Cambodia’s chances to industrialize were highest. For, as will become evident, these years have been few and far between for Cambodia.
CHAPTER 3: A BRIEF HISTORY OF CAMBODIA’S ANTEBELLUM ECONOMY
There are no four-lane highways through the parks of industrial progress. The road may lead from backwardness to dictatorship and from dictatorship to war. In conditions of a “bipolar world” this sinister sequence is modified and aggrandized by deliberate imitation of Soviet policies by other backward countries and by their voluntary or involuntary incorporation into the Soviet orbit.
–Alexander Gerschenkron, 1962
The contemporary history of Cambodia’s economy has been detailed in few major books or scholarly dissertations since the 1960s.[41] As an understudied subject of economic development and economic history, it is no wonder that most books on Cambodia are contained within the realm of political science and history proper. The pioneering works of such “Cambodianists” as Ben Kiernan and David Chandler have exposed the tragedy of recent Cambodian history by shedding much light on the Khmer Rouge movement which took control of Cambodia between 1975-1978.[42] Economists like Remy Prud’homme and Achille Dauphin-Meunier who have focused on Cambodia’s economy are few and far between. Works by Robert J. Muscat (1989), the Economist Intelligence Unit’s highly regarded Country Profiles and others have marked the literature on Cambodia’s current economic situation. It is within the context of this literature that my analysis of the history of Cambodia’s economic development begins.
As was explained in the introduction, this thesis is concerned with the examination and application of standard theories of economic growth on Cambodia. This means, for the most part, examining Cambodia’s past for clues on the presence or absence of factors contributing to economic growth. In so doing, the theories themselves can be tested against historical evidence (various statistics, trends, etc.).
Before delving into the history of Cambodia’s economy, a word on Cambodian semantics. The use of the word “Khmer” describes more than ethnicity (though 90% of Cambodians are ethnic Khmer); it is also the Cambodian word for a Cambodian citizen and the language Cambodians speak. In the Cambodian tongue, Cambodia itself is called “srok Khmer” meaning “land of the Khmer.” Therefore, Khmer and Cambodian will be used interchangeably.
The Angkorian-Khmer Empire (9th to 15th century)
Cambodia is the last trace of a once grand Khmer Empire which spanned parts of Thailand, Vietnam and Malaysia. The home of one of the largest man-made monuments in the world, the temple-complex of Angkor Wat built in the 12th century; “The Khmer people trace the origins of their state to the 3rd century AD and the emergence of a rich, coastal power known internationally as Funan.”[43]
A Hydraulic Economy
Historians have called the Khmer Empire, which was based around the city of Angkor, a hydraulic economy because of its advanced irrigation system and the many canals leading into the water ways of the Mekong delta which runs throughout Cambodia and Vietnam.[44] All this until “The prodigious conquests and construction efforts of the Angkorian kings came to a somewhat mysterious end in the 15th century. The Kingdom’s vast and intricate canal system silted up due to disuse and lack of repair, an indication of sudden labour losses in warfare or from epidemic disease.”[45] In the half century before French entry into the region, the rustic economy of Cambodia never had more than a population of one million. Leading Cambodia scholar David Chandler has written of the period spanning 1794-1848,
Nearly all the people of [Cambodia] were ethnic Khmer, who occupied themselves with rice farming and with the monastic and official life. Commercial and industrial tasks were handled by minority groups. Marketing, garden farming, and foreign trade for example by Chinese or by people of Chinese descent. Cattle trading, weaving, and commercial fisheries were controlled by a Muslim minority composed partly of immigrants from Malay archipelago… The Kui people in the northern part of the country smelted Cambodia’s small deposits of iron ore.[46]
To be sure, Cambodia is a deeply Buddhist country, perhaps the most Buddhist per capita. Until France made of Cambodia its protectorate in 1863, the Khmer Empire had all but waxed and waned into oblivion from the 15th century onward. Becoming the alternating suzerain of its neighbors Siam (Thailand) and Hue (Vietnam), Cambodia was on the verge of national extinction in the early 19th century.
The French Colonial Period (1863/83-1953)
Ironically, it was because of this French presence that Cambodia was saved from extinction.[47] French domination, despite its transformative impact, stabilized the region by creating clearly defined borders which protected Cambodia from further encroachment by Thailand or Vietnam.[48] When Cambodia became a full-fledged colony of France in 1883, it was from Hanoi, Vietnam that a French governor oversaw it in addition to Vietnam and Laos. The three countries together were called “Cochinchina” or “Indochina.”
A Story of Retarded Development
The contemporary history of Cambodia’s economy begins with her colonization in 1883; yet little happened for quite some time because France’s development focus was on Southern Vietnam, where most tax revenues from Cambodia were sent.[49] “By 1945, [Cambodia] boasted only two lycées [secondary schools], a skeletal road network and no modern industry of importance other than one large rubber plantation. All external economic relations depended on [the Mekong] river transport to Vietnam.”[50] Any substantive economic development would have to wait for another decade following Cambodia’s subsequent independence in the postwar period.
An Agrarian Economy to Begin With
We see from Alain de Forest’s doctoral dissertation, Le Cambodge et la colonisation Française (1980), that Cambodia had begun efforts to modernize and develop under French guidance. He cites the evolution of property rights and the taxation of rice paddies, tobacco, cotton, sesame, sugar cane, indigo, and other foodstuffs.[51] During this same period, Forest boldly notes the end of patronage and the birth of representative institutions in its place. He is mistaken in that respect, because patron-clientelism has not subsided to this day. He writes, “Depuis 1890, l’institution du patronat est en perte de vitesse. Elle va disparaitre dans les annees 1891-1905… [trans. Since 1890, the institution of patronage is quickly fading. Disappearing in the years 1891-1905...]“[52] By the 1930s, little progress on developing Cambodia’s economy had been made. According to Craig Etcheson,
After seventy years of struggle to establish their authority over the proud Khmer Monarchy and peasantry, the French colonial authorities began in the 1930s to plant the first of the great rubber plantations… Developed primarily by French and Belgian capital, rubber production was geared almost exclusively to the export market. The plantations quickly came to dominate the primary sector, and hence the bulk of pre-industrial Cambodian economy. Because of the low productivity of Khmer workers, the French preferred to import Vietnamese labor to tend the plantations.[53]
France’s need to import labor from Vietnam, according to Etcheson, was due to the low productivity of Khmer workers. Such observation regarding low productivity relative to one’s potential heightens chapter 2’s notion of underemployment. It is a problem tackled in the dual sector classical economy model with ominous wage repression. Because labor was instead imported from Vietnam, intersectoral labor flows (from agriculture into industry) for Cambodians was hampered. Was this a setback for industrialization? Not a big one compared to what the general economic policy vis-à-vis Cambodia had been: ignore Cambodia for the most part, get raw materials out of it, and focus on developing Southern Vietnam. On April 25, 1941, French-chosen Norodom Sihanouk-Varman was crowned King of Cambodia at the age of 18. He was described recently by Michael Leifer of the London School of Economics as “the most remarkable political survivor of the post-colonial era.”[54]
The Sihanoukist Period (1953-1970)
As the Second World War wrapped up, the United States urged its allies to decolonize and retire from imperialism. This was not an altruistic demand–freeing up colonies everywhere would offer America’s unscathed and booming economy access into the domestic markets of previously closed and protected colonies. In the postwar years, Cambodia’s economy remained strictly non-industrial: fishing, agronomy, spice cultivation, and (rubber) plantations.[55] The economy continued to export rice and rubber to France, while the latter sent high value added goods (i.e., luxury imports) to the upper echelons of Cambodian society.[56] In the aftermath of Japan’s defeat, Sihanouk began to talk of Cambodian sovereignty (for the second time; he had earlier been unsuccessful). The French defeat at Dien Bien Phu, Vietnam in 1954 marked the end of French presence in Indochina, but was not the final conflict for that region. A year earlier, however, Cambodia had been granted independence peacefully at the Geneva Conference of 1953. Finally, after centuries of national decline, asymmetric interdependence and tutelage, Cambodia was allowed to govern itself. In the following years, Sihanouk made a number of critical choices which would become the determinants of economic development for Cambodia during the 1950s and 1960s.
Hard Choices Ahead
“To govern” John F. Kennedy once said, “is to choose.” Sihanouk, as will become evident, made some poor choices for Cambodia’s economy, when he did make them. But for the most part, it seems, he failed to govern with forethought.[57] For instance, schools proliferated under his reign, but they were seriously deficient. Graduates could expect few worthy opportunities for their hard work.[58] In most instances, according to Mr. Peth Lim, a Cambodian who studied past the baccalaureate level (just about the best one could do while in Cambodia), the few jobs for graduates had all to do with State employment (teaching with tenure, civil service employment, or military service).[59] The number of available jobs were, additionally, insufficient for the growing number of graduates.[60] The educational scheme was simple: study at the tertiary level to become a professor and teach (pyramid schemes work that way too).
Furthermore, the chronic current account deficits were emblematic of a spendthrift morality. Had Sihanouk foreseen the chaos that would envelop Cambodia after 1970, he might have recognized the need to educate more scientists, technologists, and engineers first and foremost. In addition, fiscal austerity, currency devaluation and extensive agricultural modernization would have helped spurt economic growth from the 1960s onward.
A Central Bank of One’s Own
The Sihanoukist period was interrupted for five years on March 2, 1955, when Sihanouk announced to a shocked Cambodian public that he would step down as King in order to run for public office under the newly promulgated Cambodian constitution (based on France’s own). To replace him, Sihanouk’s father, Norodom Suramarit, took the royal throne. Between 1955 and 1960, A. Dauphin-Meunier notes, Cambodia’s first state-led push for economic expansion and modernization began.
There had been no Cambodian currency under French colonization. Until 1945, the three countries of Indochina: Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, had monetary policy placed in the hands of France. A monetary union later created in 1950 called L’institut d’Emission des Etats associe d’Indochine stood for the equivalent of a central bank of Indochina.[61] But under King Suramarit and Sihanouk, now duly elected chief of state while simultaneously prince, Cambodia began to issue currency of its own, called the “riel,” under the Banque Nationale du Cambodge (BNC). The riel was pegged to gold at 23.3905 milligrams, additionally, the BNC was backed by 13 million non-tradable French francs and an additional 4 million in France’s own treasury, the Tresor.62 Initially, according to Dauphin-Meunier, the riel appreciated in value each year thereafter because of an expanding economy that had increased foreign exchange reserves. These days of plenty would be numbered, as BNC deposits slowly shrunk to lower and lower levels in following years.[63]
Cambodia Dabbles with Socialism
At about this time, Sihanouk became head of the government with an astonishing 99.8% of the votes for his political party Sangkum Reastr Niyum or Popular Socialist Community. He quickly embarked on a mission to free Cambodia from superpower spheres of influence (which he believed were the cause of Cambodia’s debilitating national decline). Like Egypt and India, Cambodia took a socialist and Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) road to development that was marked by the use of agricultural cooperatives (e.g. public collectives), state-owned enterprises, and numerous construction projects. The “socialism” in Cambodia was one that, according to Dauphin-Meunier, arose not from “scientific socialism” in the Marxist tradition, but from Buddhism. He writes,
Essentielement pragmatique, il [le Bouddhisme socialiste] s’inspire directement de principes religieux, preche l’entraide et l’action sociale dans un souci de depassment de l’homme en lutte contre le mal et les injustices sociales, implique un grand respect de la personne humaine. [trans. In actuality, the socialist Buddhism directly inspires the religious principle, preaches for people to help one another and the social action for the advancement of humankind in struggling against corruption and social injustices, stressing on the great respect for humankind.][64]
As became fashionable during the 1950s and 1960s, Cambodia issued numerous economic plans. The first two-year plan, promulgated in 1956 and renewed in 1958, emphasized the development of infrastructure. The creation of a port at Kampong Som named “Sihanoukville” for maritime traffic eased the burden placed on the Mekong River (which had, until then, been the only pipeline for transport to and from Vietnam into Cambodia). 65 For the next decade, five-year plans were promulgated under Sihanouk’s Planning Ministry for 1960-1964, 1964-1968, and 1968-1972. The transportation system, largely undeveloped under the French, received much needed attention from the mid-1950s onward. The number of kilometer of roads more than tripled from 4,805 in 1955 to 16,697 in 1969.[66]
Practical Propaganda?
Much of the data on education, industry, and health-care, for the years in which Sihanouk reigned as head of state before the 1970 coup d’etat in which he was deposed, were gathered from a pictorial book titled Cambodge (1970). The book’s purpose was to attack the Lon Nol regime which replaced Sihanouk in March 1970 (Sihanouk was the regime as is common in autocratic states). It contains the most detailed breakdown of economic progress made from 1955 to 1968, but ought to be taken with at least some reservation. As a secondary source, Milton Osborne’s recent unauthorized biography of Sihanouk, titled Sihanouk: Prince of Light, Prince of Darkness (1994) cites similar statistics on education facilities, though without references as to where they originated, in its concluding chapter.[67] Overflowing with images of a happy and modernizing Cambodia under “papa” Sihanouk, Cambodge is the unqualified mouth-piece of a defeated leader wanting a return to power.[68] On one page, a caption below a picture of President Richard M. Nixon giving a televised speech on the secret U.S. bombings of Cambodia reads: “L’homme `civilisé’ qui soutient le régime sauvage de Lon Nol. [trans. The `civilized' man who sustains Lon Nol's savage regime.]” It is with this qualification that I offer the following statistics.
Cambodia on Education 1955-1968
The growth of Cambodia’s educational system between 1955 and 1968 is indicative of a pattern of economic expansion and modernization. The primary and secondary school system, which served the population of 5 to 18 year olds, increased significantly between 1955 and 1968.
Table 3.1: The Cambodian Educational System Under Sihanouk
1955 1968
Primary Schools 2,731 5,857
Number of Students 311,000 1,025,000
Secondary schools (Junior High and High 12 180
Schools)
Number of Students 5,300 117,000
Technical and Professional Schools 5 99
Number of Students 334 7,400
Universities 0 9
Number of Faculty 2 48
Number of Students 347 10,800
Source: Cambodge (1970), pp. 23, 24, 26, 28.
Educational Quantity Versus Quality
Underneath this facade lurked the problem of quantity versus quality. What Sihanouk had achieved was an increase in the number of students at all levels of education, but the quality of their education was always in doubt. Milton Osborne writes:
In looking back at his years in power, both Sihanouk and his defenders have made much of his efforts to transform and expand the Cambodian educational system. The claim invites debate, because there is no doubt that educational opportunities expanded in Cambodia, particularly during the 1960s. But at the same time there was an ever-growing gap between the numbers of pupils and students processed through secondary and tertiary institutions and the availability of jobs for those who had completed their education.
The issue of education… is given further interest by the prince’s own ambivalent attitude to formal learning… Publicly he could boast that he determined Cambodia’s economic policies without caring `a rap about political economy, political science or other subjects’, and without having read any books on these subjects. But hand in hand with these views went his determination to found schools, colleges and universities… [Yet] standards in most of these newly established faculties were deplorably low, not least because there were simply not enough trained university teachers.[69]
Equally disturbing, according to Osborne, was that science was not singled out as desirable field to enter, at least not when compared to the humanities and arts. To be sure, there were faculties in all fields imaginable, but incentives to steer students into the more socially beneficial engineering and scientific fields were summarily missing.
The most disquieting claim by Osborne regarding the job potential of graduates was affirmed by my own conversation with Peth Lim. According to Mr. Lim, who studied at the university level during the 1960s, graduate students had one avenue of employment: to become professors themselves. There were curiously few opportunities in the private sector, where education was not highly regarded. The artificial creation of both demand and supply by the government might have worked initially. As thousands of students entered the newly built Universities, however, fewer than half could expect to be employed for the extent of their educational attainment. Openings for professorships were highly competitive, and each year many graduates were turned away.[70]
But still, how much quality could one expect from a country that in 1945 had but two high schools? The Economist sums it up: “In 1960 only 31% of those over 15 could read or write, a legacy of inadequate attention to education dating from colonial rule. Important advances were made during the 1960s, but instruction came to a halt during the war in the early 1970s.”[71]
Dual Sector Economy and Solow Growth Models
Using a factor important to both the Dual Sector Economy and Solow Growth Models–technology as derived from research, education, etc.,–one can see firsthand the disturbing effects that poor quality in education would have upon technology. If education in the sciences is an endogenous growth variable, a determinant therefore of technological change, its importance is all the more increased. The explicit link with the Solow Growth Model is apparent in the unexplained residual which Robert Solow deduced was technology. Conversely, if investment in technology-producing education is inadequate, the rate of economic growth expected in the following years will be diminished.
What of the dual sector neo-classical economy model? The dual sectors model has a technological component with respect to agriculture. Technology in agriculture works to lower the cost of food, thus eliminating the need for increases in the real wage for industry. Later, when agricultural production is examined, a murkier picture of modernization will appear. In the last analysis, however, the absence of a sound educational system was a detriment to Cambodian economic growth then and for the following years.
Health-Care Boom
In addition to education, a number of health-care facilities were added to serve the Cambodian population of over 6 million (in 1968). The number of hospitals tripled from 1955 to 1968, while clinics and pharmacies proliferated. This no doubt resulted in longer life-expectancy and lower infant mortality. On this point, Sihanouk’s reign succeed
August 29th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
I can’t believe knuckle head Alex Jones spent so much time writing so much bull shit. Gotsta be insane. Where’s the strait jacket? And give him a bolus of Thorazine STAT!
September 14th, 2008 at 11:23 am
This stuff is unbelievable! I cannot believe that Americans are so gullible that they believe this crap! This is my first time at this site. I will come again to check out your misinformation so I can better understand you and those like you. If I do not understand you, I cannot defeat you. You are dangerous and, fortunately, you are a minority. I fight for your right to free speech, but you need to remember that your freedoms have been paid for by the blood of good Americans who believe in our country and our way of life. America is not always 100% right because we are a human society. However, you should move to one of the other countries you seem to feel sorry for and try to write and publish your garbage. Your life expectancy would be considerably shorter.
March 7th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
She is so wonderful! I hope nothing but good things for her, and hope that if/when she does make a slip up, it\’s not too bad
March 16th, 2009 at 3:53 pm
I LOVE this song! OMG isn\’t it so pretty?
March 24th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
i LOVE Taylor Swift SOOOOOOOOO much