 |
Climategate: the scandal spreads, the plot thickens, the shame deepens…
James Delingpole
London Telegraph
Thursday, Nov 26th, 2009
Wow! The scandal just gets juicier and juicier. Now it seems that the Kiwis may have been at it too – tinkering with raw data to make “Global Warming” look scarier than it really is. (Hat tip: Watts Up With That; Ian Wishart)
The alleged villains this time are the climate scientists at the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (NiWA) – New Zealand’s answer to Britain’s Climate Research Unit. And to judge by this news alert by the Climate Science Coalition of NZ, both institutions share a similarly laissez-faire attitude to scientific accuracy.
Compare and contrast these two graphs and you’ll see .
This is the graph from NiWA’s website, showing mean annual temperature over New Zealand from 1853. Note the dotted straight line showing the upward trend. Worrying, isn’t it? Almost enough to make you fall in love your flickery, yellowy new eco-light bulbs, recycle your kids and commit yourself to a binding agreement at Copenhagen.
Now have a look at this analysis of the raw data taken from exactly the same temperature stations.
Can you see the difference? I can – and I know as little about science as Al Gore.
Prison
Planet.tv Members Can Watch
Fall Of The Republic
Right Now Online -
Don't Miss Out! Get
Your Subscription Today!
CANCER CONSPIRACY? Are
"they" suppressing the cure? Will YOU
be the next victim? Learn
the Secret Truth! - READ FULL STORY
-
- Social bookmarks
- Email this article
-
- Print this page
November 26th, 2009 at 5:40 am
With all this new info coming to light, why is Obaaama still going to Copenhagen? This was on yahoo news last night.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....copenhagen
I wonder if he will sign up…without the approval of Congress and the People.
Quacksilver Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 6:07 am
Where’s Karmakaze when you “need” him – wasn’t he from NZ?…
Storky – just “local weather” again, right?
If so, Karmacheese & the Kiwis are very lucky for not having to go through this hellish “warming” like the rest of the planet…
Lieland – palm-jobs are keeping you busy, eh?…
Wayne – what’s up in Wayne’s Warming World?
Did I miss someone?…
ROGER EDGE Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 7:53 am
funny are you a surfer
Quantummonkeybutt Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Keep In Mind, It Is Absolutely Crucial For Them To Get The United States To Sign The Copenhagen Agreement To End Our Nation As We Know It, And To Fund The ‘New World Order’ Agenda…
We Essentially Hand Over ALL Control Of Industrial, Political, Economic, And Technological Systems To The United Nations If Obama’s Signature Hits The Paper…
As I Am On The International Flight Banned List, We Are Counting On Our European Neighbors To Help Defend Us All From The Most Serious Tyranny The World Has Ever Seen!!! The Goddamn “Endgame”…
AT ALL COSTS, THE COPENHAGEN TREATY MUST BE DERAILED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9KC9qu0eII (KENNY LOGGINS – “THIS IS IT”)
QMB
trainspotter
Angry Moderate Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 9:08 am
Nancy P.
I would not be surprised if at least one of the global warming advocates that you listed is a one of the scientists whose email was hacked.
Where is the MSM? They certainly cannot ignore this story. There are not enough Michael Jacksons in the world to make it go away.
anon Reply:
November 28th, 2009 at 3:36 am
Quakesilver…. im from NZ and we are involved in all this bull**** just this week our government passed into law our new ETS (Emissions Trading Scheme) that will cost the tax payer over $115Billion, our population is only 4.2million now do the math on what that cost per person
Life Saver Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 6:45 am
Holiday Sale Electronic Cigarettes, tastes, feels, looks and satisfies just like a tobacco cigarette except without any toxic deadly chemicals. A safe satisfying smoke also a great holiday gift idea!
For more information or check out our new specials http://WWW.SMARTCHOICEECIG.COM
Ophiuchus Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 9:25 am
This is a scam site…. dont give credit details or any details…. just ignore!!!!!!
Reality Chick Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 9:42 am
I am allergic to nicotine. The smell of nicotine gives me a severe migraine. The new electronic cigarette devices use an electric spark to burn nicotine oil. I promise you that whenever I smell or see an e-cigarette device in use in any public venue, I will scream bloody murder, press charges, and sue the smoker for damages.
PROUD KIWI Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
dont breathe then
rudibr Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 7:16 am
He will sign it, everyone will sign it, including my president in Brazil, who stated so yesterday, with the usual babble about how this is a big and great event bla bla bla.
After Copenhagen, we will all officially be nothing more then maggots, our corrupt and/or idiot government leaders completly ignoring and dont giving a crap about us, afraid or unwilling to take a stand on anything that goes against the globalists agenda.
dan from ohio Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 7:32 am
its time to revolt and remove these people from power!!!
Ophiuchus Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 9:28 am
agree………….
Steve Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 7:56 am
Hi Rudibr,
I think Lula will sign the bill as he thinks that as a developing country, Brazil has an opportunity to gain something. What he fails to understand that as the US is in so much debt, when the accounts are settled, the very US will be deemed as a poor nation and will receive a good part of the plunder.
As long as the world thinks that the US is a superpower and a frontrunner in the world that the US will continue giving. Not at all. Both the US and UK are going to ‘dar o golpe do millênio’ after everyone is on board. Get ready for a war.
Um abraço,
Steve
P.S. Moro em Recife
Steve Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 7:51 am
Hi Mama J,
Obama wasn’t booked to go to Copenhagen until after this scandal broke out. Now he will spend one day there on his way to oslo to get his Nobel Peace ‘Prize’.
I think he is going to try and pressure other nations to sign on to the treaty, before the cat gets out of the bag, just as the US Senate has been doing passing bills in the middle of the night or over the weekend.
I think that the people behind the governments are needing to rush this through before the public catch on to what’s happening. Mark my words.
Best regards,
Steve
LOL^ Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 8:07 am
Those who are going to Copenhagen are criminals
MARK OF THE BEAST Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 8:34 am
COMRADE OBAMA CARES NOTHING ABOUT THE PEOPLE OR THE CONGRESS. THE MAN CHILD, HOUSE BOY THINKS HE WILL BE RULER OF THE PLANET. B GROUP HAS DIFFERENT PLANS FOR THE SHILL. THEY WILL HAVE NO USE FOR THE IMPOSTER PRESIDENT AFTER HE DOES THEIR BIDDING.
Globalists On The Run Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 11:46 am
you can count on it
November 26th, 2009 at 6:25 am
We need to hire MEP Farage! They are going to ignore Climategate and press on their Bilderberg agenda!
November 26th, 2009 at 7:13 am
Almost lynched “Al Gore chuck” at a book signing yesterday. The f---er got away this time.
November 26th, 2009 at 7:31 am
won,t change anything!These elite want a global government and by using the lie concerning man-made global warming they’ll get it.Its time people start removing these tyrants,one way or the other….
November 26th, 2009 at 7:35 am
If this so called president goes to Copenhagen and signs this treaty to tax the world he needs to be impeached.But then we should have a new election cause obiden is a vocal supporter of the New World Order.
November 26th, 2009 at 7:48 am
PRISON PLANET IS THE BOMB ,I LOVE THIS s---. IF IT WASNT FOR PEOPLE LIKE ALEX THESE ASSHOLES WOULD WALK ALL OVER US. OK MABY IM STILL DRUNK FROM LAST NIGHT. YOU HAVE TO LIVE LIFE ANYWAY. CHRIST SAID OCUPY UNTIL I COME.I AM IN YOUR FACE WITH EVERYONE ABOUT THE NWO WITH A SMILE ON MY FACE. I STILL LOVE LIFE ,LIVE HARD,LOVE OFTEN.
November 26th, 2009 at 7:53 am
Obummer will sign anything the NWO tells him to sign. The NWO is a danger to 99.9 % of the planet
November 26th, 2009 at 8:17 am
The greenies are really going to be up the creek with a recycled piece of crap for a paddle.
Just flipped by Faux news….. “CDC: No signs of serious side effects from H1N1 vaccine”
I guess G.B. syndrome, convultions, etc. is pretty mild.
It would be funny if it didn’t get unsuspecting people sick- and no telling what kind of long term damage it might cause.
Now it’s troops telling some reporter how much difference they are making in Afghanistan…. I guess they were refering to poppy protection.
I need to turn that noise off…. I feeel like I need a shower-
November 26th, 2009 at 8:27 am
Watts Up With That is full of stuff like this.
When you take the time to look into it, its always bogus.
I think they’re part of this network:
http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/d.....report.pdf
How ExxonMobil Uses Big Tobacco’s Tactics
to Manufacture Uncertainty on Climate Science
Union of Concerned Scientists
Watts Up With That is one of the “information laundering” sites that this report talks about, I think.
Grow up, Alex.
Face your fears.
ExxonMobil and the Rockefellers are at the heart of the NWO – and they’re taking you for a free ride on their propaganda machine.
Stop dragging the rest of us through your fear based psychological denial.
dorky Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Hey Palm-mmmmmmmmm….er, you suck too?
Norman Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 9:44 am
Leland Palmer,
For awhile I thought you were intelligent but now it seems as if you have knowledge but no thinking. You can be a chemist but not a thinker. You sound very brainwashed like you are in a cult.
Your post is a mindless reaction or attempt to hold on to your faith. If you really were a thinker you would look at the evidence presented in the “climategate” files. The scientists were manipulating data!!
• Manufactured uncertainty by raising doubts
about even the most indisputable scientific
evidence.
By putting this, I have to conclude you are into cult thinking and have lost the ability to think for yourself. The files show the indisputable scientific evidence is tainted. It is manipulated to make things look warmer than they actually are.
If you are a true chemist (like myself) you should be angry at any scientist who is caught manipulating data for any reason. You need to trust the data of others to build your own theories.
Sean Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 10:04 am
Norman,
And you are not putting your trust in data? Who is it you are actually trusting anyway? Does he/she have a name, a face? Hypocrite.
My reply below is to Palmer.
Norman Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 10:25 am
Sean,
The marine saying “Trust no one” is part of my thinking. Humans seem to have a tremendous ability to lie to benefit themselves. On Global Warming I switched from believing the scientists and trusting them to Observation mode. Just watching for myself. I am collecting record highs and lows. In Nebraska in the 1930’s, there was by far the most record high temperatures. Many in the 110 F range. I told Leland in a past post, when I see the temperatures get this hot in my home state I will start to worry. Now I am just in observation mode. I read material on RealClimate and a lot of the posts and I check out the skeptics ideas and theories.
Sean Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Glad to hear you are thinking for yourself, Norman. It would be wise for everyone else to do the same.
Leland Palmer Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 10:09 am
No, you have come to the conclusion that this is what they were doing, based on your biased and suspicious reading of what they were doing.
Trenberth has been widely quoted as being the author of the “travesty” remark, when what he was talking about was tracking all of the heat flows in the earth system.
Other scientists may reasonably disagree with him, by the way. Such heat tracking experiments are notoriously hard to do. It is just such a heat tracking experiment that led us down the path of cold fusion, and that was repeated over and over again, more rigorously each time, taking years to get down to a smaller and smaller possible heat gain from any possible fusion.
Trenberth wants to do this heat tracking experiment. Other scientists can legitimately disagree with him. Trenberth thinks it’s possible, and apparently wants other scientists to change the way they do things, to make their observations more uniform. Other scientists may object, and doubt that this is the most efficient use of resources. Such heat tracking experiments are correct in principle, immensely complicated in practice.
Unless I’ve misunderstood, which is always possible. I’m an analytical chemist, not a climate scientist.
http://www.wired.com/images_bl.....9final.pdf
All of this is entirely normal.
I have very little doubt that most of the other quotes are similar – that once we know what the issues are, the whole lynch mob mentality will turn out to be misguided.
The NWO and the intelligence agencies have been in bed together for years, by the way. The CIA for years has acted almost like a private security force around the world for the Rockefellers and ExxonMobil, in securing oil supplies, including overthrowing governments and setting up corrupt dictatorships. I wouldn’t be surprised if this leak, supposedly through private hackers in Russia, actually was leaded deliberately by the intelligence agencies, either the CIA or Britian’s intelligence agencies.
Norman Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 10:39 am
Leland,
The worst are the computer codes. These are the ones with direct evidence of manipulation of data to produce a desired outcome. The tree ring data was not following temperature so they added a fudge factor to save the tree rings and make it look legit. This is extremely horrible science.
By the way have you checked Greenland temps in the past? In the 1930’s Greenland recording stations had higher temperatures than today. Again it looks like cycles. The powers out there knew we are currently in a warm cycle in the Northern Hempisphere and attribute this to man’s release of carbon dioxide (I believe it is the Pacific Decadal Oscilation or PDO). They are using this as an emotional too to get their real desire. One World Government, a NWO and unlimited power for themselves.
Leland Palmer Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 11:16 am
I don’t see it, in my very brief reading of the computer codes.
What I see is a programmer, trying to import data from other databases with different formats, struggling to import it and make sense out of it. Also, he seemed to be trying to track down bugs in the code, and expressing frustration because of it.
Alex Jones starts waving his arms around, and of course you think there is wrongdoing here.
Sorry, I’m not jumping to that conclusion, about the computer codes, until I know what was going on.
And no, it’s not obvious what was going on, at all.
Quacksilver Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
“The Met Office refuses to release data and methodology for their HadCRUT global temperature dataset after being asked repeatedly.” http://wattsupwiththat.com/200.....e-curtain/
“I will still not pass on the data. We have 25 or so years invested in the work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it.” – Dr. Phil Jones
“All of this is entirely normal.” – L. Palmer
Is it really?
Leland Palmer Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Hi Quacksilver-
I think it is entirely normal, yes.
NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies site has both open data and open source software, or so I’ve read recently.
Denier organizations often download their data in an effort to find something wrong with it.
So far, except for a couple of minor corrections, nobody has found anything wrong with either the data or the software, I think.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/
The NASA GISS data shows essentially the same warming trend as the Hadley Centre data.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/
I think that Dr. Phil Jones knows that he is dealing with a fossil fuel funded denier network, and sees no reason to cooperate with a paid propaganda network.
This paid “information laundering” network will continue to churn out their propaganda, it’s what they are paid to do.
PROUD KIWI Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
go away
Leland Palmer Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Hi Proud Kiwi-
Go away?
Not likely.
The whole world, the future of life on earth itself, may well hinge on the outcome of this battle.
We need a political movement, to take power back from the NWO, and the fossil fuel corporations that have a monopoly on energy supply in this country, and don’t want to give that monopoly up.
You can’t build a viable political movement on lies, these days, I am convinced.
You can’t build a viable political movement on psychological denial, either, not if you want it to deal with reality, and bring a system based on lies back into control.
Our political system is based on lies – the lies of the Federal Reserve, the lies of Wall Street, and the lies of the fossil fuel corporations, among other lies.
Our flight from reality has gotten so bad, that huge corporations are finding it much, much cheaper just to set up covert propaganda networks, than to change their business practices.
The climate system is going out of control, I am convinced. We have pushed it way too hard with our half trillion tons of carbon from fossil fuels, and done so way too fast.
The deniers will tell you that the solutions to the problems are obvious – they are not. They will tell you that scientists are stupid or dishonest – they are not. They will tell you anything that stops this legislation – because they are paid to do so.
And the amount they are being paid is a tiny, tiny fraction of ExxonMobil’s profits, and is even a tiny fraction of what ExxonMobil would have to pay for carbon fees under the climate bill.
PROUD KIWI Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
yo leland– without seeming to be rude,but do you get out into the real world much or do you only see it from your sceen? global warming is part of the earths evolution, always has been, always will be.do not worry, if the earth has had enough of man-kind it will do what is required as it has always done. i fear you read too much instead of looking at the seasons with your eyes open, not blinkered like a race horse.
Leland Palmer Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Hi again-
Another nonsense denier talking point – the world changes, ho hum, isn’t it wonderful.
No it’s not, not if you get caught in a mass extinction event.
The End Permian extinction event killed 95 percent of marine species, and 80 percent of terrestrial species.
What apparently happened in that event was that volcanic activity produced a large amount of CO2.
This apparently triggered the release of on the order of two or three trillion tons of methane from deposits of methane hydrates, on the ocean floor. This is detectable by a large negative C13 isotope shift left in the shells and sediments laid down at the time.
Methane is a greenhouse gas 70 times or so worse than CO2, over a 20 year period, and 20 times or so worse over a 100 year period. It oxidizes into CO2 in the atmosphere, so even after it oxidizes it still delivers a large warming punch.
The oceans turned anoxic, and clouds of hydrogen sulfide gas likely was emitted.
For details on this, visit http://www.killerinourmidst.com.
This could happen to us, only slightly modified from that event. Our half-trillion tons of carbon, which we have released into the atmosphere geologically instantaneously by the industrial revolution, might mimic the CO2 released by the volcanic activity at that time. This might be enough to start the forests burning at increased rates. The permafrost contains 1.6 trillion tons of carbon, and as this thaws it could release as much CO2 and methane as the industrial revolution. The tropical forests, as they burn, could release as much CO2 as the industrial revolution, by 2100.
Here is Chris Field, one of the IPCC group leaders, speaking on Democracy Now, February 26, 2009:
Have you really been so brainwashed by denier propaganda that you will sit idly by and risk something like this happening within our lifetimes?
PROUD KIWI Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
um—-you seem to make a point of saying alot of “mights”my good fellow, could it be you that is brainwashed?i mean,wot to believe? look where science has got us, and you still fall for their dribble—-yes i do believe we have to look after our world but on evidence not bull-s---,. you call me a denier,NO, a realist my good man, so next time your outside dont forget to put on that poisonist sunscreen, that plastic raincoat,oops dont forget your umberalla for all that acid rain.also —um—-you never did say whesther you acually do step out side or not?—”enlighten me”GREAT DEBATE,chap.
Sean Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 9:55 am
I would have to agree. I am quite surprised by this story being so absolutely, with out a doubt, righteous. Who leaked the emails to the public??? Have they even been confirmed as legit? Is the statement “Global warming is not man made.” an actual proven FACT? Can anyone prove either argument? And if it is a fraud, WHO CARES. The FACT is we need to change our ways when it comes to the environment. Whether we have a hand in global warming or not we still need to change the way we treat nature. The raping of our oceans and forests is sickening. The industrial waste from the developed and now developing countries whether land, air or water is mostly unregulated. But no, lets focus on yet another scandal and yet again ignore the real issues. Do bringing these points up make me a green hippie, an environmental cultist or any other bulls--- label you want to put on it? I think it makes me a concerned citizen who won’t be misled by obvious games. Instead of getting so caught up and pissed off at Ed being on FOX, why not get pissed off at the big money hungry companies who are killing this planet and our way of life, how we choose to live it. If the same anger was aimed towards them, maybe something would actually get done. Everyone has become so quick to judge on this issue. So quick to trust what they are being told without questioning, as long as it suits their own perceived agendas or “gotcha” attitudes. It seems to me that it is a propaganda scheme that is being run like any other. Same old, same old. Controlling both sides of the issue. Confusion is a great weapon. It always has been and always will be. You are all chasing your tails and the powers that be are laughing at how easy it is to manipulate you. Good luck to you all.
Norman Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Sean,
I would totally agree we need to have a strong environmental concern. But I am against a Global Govenment. That is what the content of Alex Jones is all about. He is against a NWO or Global Govenment. Soviet Union is a prime example of where this system heads to.
Your love of the Earth and concern for the environment are the emotional levers they are using to get you to consent to their desire for power.
If you believe it is a war against the Oil companies, then you have not studied the Bilderberg lists. There is not this war between the Global Green and Oil companies. They are members of the same group. They create a division at our level to keep us fighting each other.
The Carbon tax and other environmental issues are not about protecting our planet or helping. They are about money and Control. People who crave power can never get enough. That is why this is a huge issue. There is some global warming going on now so they will push this because it is a great way to get a Global Government.
Leland Palmer Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Hi Norman-
Actually, it is a war between the Green and the Fossil Fuel companies.
It’s pretty much that simple.
The Fossil Fuel companies have been losing, now they’re are employing dirty tricks to feed their paid denier network with material that casts doubt on AGW.
Unfortunately, Alex Jones has bought into the output of the paid denier network.
That’s how I read it, anyway.
Leland Palmer Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 10:57 am
I agree, except that I think AGW is real, and the evidence for it is overwhelming.
Your question about who leaked the emails is a good one. I have been thinking about this too.
Most likely, I think, are the intelligence agencies, which routinely monitor email traffic around the world.
Here in the U.S., we have a network of Narus supercomputers installed at telecommunications centers, which routinely track all net traffic, including email. Financing for Narus, by the way, was from JPMorgan/Chase, another part of the Rockefelller financial empire. So, the intelligence agencies would know about these emails, and know the contents of any possible embarrassing scientific emails around the globe.
It’s very much like one of the NWO tentacles (the intelligence agencies), are feeding another NWO tentacle (The ExxonMobil funded denier network) cherry picked, possibly fraudulent emails, as a NWO dirty trick.
Norman Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Leland,
I have seen the Bilderberg lists and the Oil companies are heavily represented. In fact the CEO of ExxonMobil does not oppose Cap and Trade (since he won’t pay, the cost goes to the consumer). It is not so simple as a war between Green and Oil Companies. It is more like how can we get the common person to accept a World Government that will be detrimental to them.
Leland and Sean,
Here is what I find about temps. Going into the past. Is the World really warming? Maybe, or is it a cycle.
I have posted this before but in case you missed it.
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/wheat7.htm
Those are the record highs in each state, check temp and date.
Record lows:
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/wcstates.htm
Norman Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Leland
Here is a link to the original computer coding. Showing the manipulation.
PeteWright Reply:
November 24th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
I managed to secure a copy of the hacked material and was browsing the source code when I came across this comment.
;
; PLOTS ‘ALL’ REGION MXD timeseries from age banded and from hugershoff
; standardised datasets.
; Reads Harry’s regional timeseries and outputs the 1600-1992 portion
; with missing values set appropriately. Uses mxd, and just the
; “all band” timeseries
;****** APPLIES A VERY ARTIFICIAL CORRECTION FOR DECLINE*********
;
yrloc=[1400,findgen(19)*5.+1904]
valadj=[0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,-0.1,-0.25,-0.3,0.,-0.1,0.3,0.8,1.2,1.7,2.5,2.6,2.6,$
2.6,2.6,2.6]*0.75 ; fudge factor
Im unsure of the language but seems very strange to be applying corrections to raw data.
In directory document/harris-tree/briffa_sep98_e.pro
This artical has links to the emails/documents/source
http://www.examiner.com/x-2897…..and-emails
I can’t find the original but I downloaded the emails and will look for it at some point.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving!
Norman
Leland Palmer Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Hi Norman-
Oh, ExxonMobil would pay the highest carbon fees in the U.S., around 6 billion dollars or so, and would have to raise their prices about five percent to do this.
I doubt that they’re real happy about this.
Note the relative amounts of money, by the way.
A few million per year, or a even a hundred million paid secretly in roundabout ways to a network of paid deniers, versus 6 billion in compliance costs, if the Climate Bill cap and trade scheme is passed.
So, setting up a network of paid deniers is just good business sense for them.
Happy Thanksgiving!
November 26th, 2009 at 9:01 am
I want to see Heads Roll as this issue contunues to gain speed . I don’t want to see ONE person as a ‘ Patsy ‘ , I want everyone involved with this to goto Jail !
November 26th, 2009 at 10:27 am
We already knew Phil Jones and Michael Mann were phonies long before these incriminating emails and other files were released to the taxpaying public.
Now it looks like the government climate departments of New Zealand, Australia, the US, and Germany are also corrupted just like the UK.
They like you when you vote for them and pay them your hard earned taxes. They hate you when you demand some accountability.
The worst ones are the flunkies who apologize for the corrupt and manipulative weasels running these climate departments.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Before getting too excited about the Kiwis, you should look at what the other side is saying:
http://hot-topic.co.nz/nz-scep.....scientist/
Any *real* counter-arguments?
I am wondering whether the Kiwi-ClimateGate is to distract from the emails. Where is the truth?
PROUD KIWI Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
we may be a small country m8, but big on weather research, do some study.
noname Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Do YOU have any *real* counter-arguments?
PROUD KIWI Reply:
November 26th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
wot do you want me to say m8—this is not a diversion.not meaning to get into a dick swinging compition wiyh you but nz does a hell of alot as far as climate and weather research goes.we have the clearest skys out, plus the closest country to antarctica.we may be a small country my friend but play some big parts in some arenas around the world. un-like some countries around the world we dont always have to advertise this fact. if you do some research on our little country you mite find that we are more stratigic than you realise.—hope this is good enough for you Mr noname, if not pop down under and see for yourself. CHEERS M8.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Oh these zealots will carry on until they all look like silly assholes to the bitter end.
Because should they not prevail trillions of dollars goes up in smoke and 100’s of trillions will be lost from the tax that would of been in place.
The truth is that this scam was to be pulled of son and was snatched out of their hands at the last moment .
Only the zealots are left cheering it on.
the rest of the world now sees it for what it has always been a lie.
Science if no longer a credible endeavor as the data produced will always be manipulated
in the favor of those who pay the grants.
Scientists are no longer credible period.
November 26th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
As far as I can see the MSM are not saying anything down here, deadly silent.
Although some political party’s are saying our current ETS doesn’t go far enough, far enough at destroying all our agricultural base?
November 26th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
Just take care with this information from the crafty Ian Wishart.
He has an agenda.
Thanks
Peter
November 26th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Over many years we have all been lied to by our Governments… But not just our Governments but many religous leaders. Many things we have been taught are not even in Scripture and millions have swallowed so many lies by these false prophets. If you are a truth seeker please visit the following web site and take the time to read some of the articles… You will be shocked.
THERE IS A GREAT NEW AUDIO THERE FOR YOU TO LISTEN TO. YOU WILL COME AWAY ASKING MANY QUESTIONS. REAL SHOCKING.
http://www.2besaved.com
Blessings as you seek truth
Ben
November 26th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
I have an urgent message for you, more important than any message you can hear. God is Holy and cannot accept sin(honor thy mother and father…, thou shall not kill, thou shall not commit adultery, thou shall not steal, thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor, thou shall not covet..etc…Exodus 20:12-17). Here are some verses that show examples of sin:
“Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.” Matthew 5:21-22
“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” Matthew 5:27-28
“It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.” Matthew 5:31-32
“For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” Romans 3:23. Your good deeds cannot cover up your bad deeds.
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Isaiah 64:6
“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” Romans 3:10-12
You could be perfect in all the law and stumble at one point and it is as if you broke all of them:
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” James 2:10
“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.” James 4:17
God wrote the law on each man’s heart so they are without excuse on judgment day when we will ALL stand before Christ(”Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another” Romans 2:15). The penalty of sin is death and eternal punishment in the LAKE OF FIRE(which IS the second death). I am warning you about hell because I love you! You are dead in your sins and headed for hell which is described in the Word as a FIRE THAT QUENCHES NOT(”…the fire is not quenched” Mark 9:44). It is a horrible and terrible place of everlasting torment that people will go because of their sins. God is Holy, Just and eternal. Offending a Holy, Just and eternal God demands ETERNAL punishment! “…he is an holy God;…he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.” Joshua 24:19; “…For the LORD is a God of judgement…” Isaiah 30:18;”…a just God…” Isaiah 45:21; “The eternal God…” Deuteronomy 33:27
“And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 13:50
“But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.” Luke 12:5
“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.” Luke 16:22-24
“In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;” 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
But God has provided a way for each to escape the lake of fire. He sent his Son Jesus(God manifest in the flesh-1 Timothy 3:16) who was conceived by a virgin by the Holy Spirit of God,lived a sinless life, and suffered a horrible death/shed blood and rose again 3 days later to take the penalty of YOUR sins so you dont have to pay for them in hell for eternity! He loved you so much which is why he did it! He is the only one to have fufilled the law perfectly(sinless) and paid the price of the entire world’s sins so that man could be saved on the merits of His perfection(see Romans 5:19). All you must do to be saved is BELIEVE in Him(trust in Him to save you as a sinner). You must admit your lost sinful condition to Him/that you’re worthy of hell, and ask Him to save you by placing complete trust in Jesus ALONE for salvation(an example in the Word of someone doing this- “And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.” Luke 18:13).It is not even partly by yourselves that you can be saved, but only by the merits of Jesus Christ!
“For God so loved the world, He sent his only Begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life” John 3:16.
“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world” 1 John 2:2
“…Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,” Revelation 1:5
“…I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you…how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
“…what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved…” Acts 16:29-31
“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Romans 4:5
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” Romans 10:9-10
No works or anything you do can save you! May God open your eyes, that one day I may see you in heaven. Read the Word of God(the 1611 King James version- NOT the modern versions, they are corrupt) before rejecting it! Death is fleeting. You may NOT have tomorrow! For death comes when we least expect it! Make sure you are saved TODAY! The Bible condemns the rich, the wealthy, and those who take advantage of the poor, so it CANNOT have been made up by the elite. Because the Word clearly CONDEMNS people such as those! It declares all mankind as sinners(myself included).
I am a Christian, and love you enough to warn you of the dangers of hell. Beware, the Roman catholic church is NOT Christian! The church CANNOT save you but only Christ! Just because someone says they are a Christian does not necessarily mean they are one(remember the crusades in history? Many were murdered in the name of Christianity. These were no Christians at all by their testimony). Please email me to inquire more. I would be glad to help you out in your search for truth!(my email- livingwaters705@hotmail.com)…To those who slander/mock me, I pray for you and love you anyways and hope you will trust Christ before its too late!
Salvation is not found in good works, rituals, church, the pope, water baptism, good lives, etc….But ONLY found by faith in Jesus Christ the Savior!
If you need prayer or anything, just let me know! I would be glad to help! I love and care for you, and I have prayed that every person that reads this who do not know the Lord, would one day turn to Christ in faith for salvation for their sins. I beg you to turn to Christ in faith before it is too late! You get ONE chance while living and then it is too late forever:
“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” Hebrews 9:27
“And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:32
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6
“…there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.” Isaiah 45:21-22
“And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Revelation 22:17