So what this means is we must be skeptical of everything, even things that may actually be benign because we don’t have suficient evidence or data to know otherwise. We must stick to old, tried and true methods and processes, and shun much of what is new simply because we cannot trust the people and organization who are producing these things.

So bottom line…there may be no actual or intended harm from irradiation of these vegetables. It might actually work simply as these “scientists” and government officials say it does. BUT I DON’T TRUST THEM AND I WANT TO HAVE AN INFORMED CHOICE. The simple fact that they won’t allow these vegetables to be labelled as Irradiated means they are denying us the choice of whether to take a chance on believing that what they are saying is true. Maybe it is. I don’t trust people I have found to be habitual liars and crooks.

I want to have information about what I am putting in my body, which is what enables me to choose. I value that freedom more than I fear any virus or bug.

One word about “scientists”. Nazi Germany was full of doctors and scientists who did whatever they could to fulfill the ends of that regime because it coincided with their own beliefs, and allowed them the latitude to conduct whatever experimentation they wanted to. Much “science” is done in a moral vacuum and grows out of the experimenters own belief systems. Their work is not necessarily intended to benefit mankind as the majority of us would think of it, nor are they unbiased in their beliefs, as anyone who has dissented from a majority scientific belief has found. Too many “scientists” do things because they CAN, not because they SHOULD. I don’t trust them either.

Best thing is to grow your own fruits and vegetables as much as you can,and join with your neighbors to promote the common good and welfare. The hell with Big Government, Big Agra, Big Pharma, Big Media and Big Business. They’re all out to screw us over and control and take whatever we have.

Produce that’s imported from other countries that have very different idea of what’s allowed for irrigation (like not very well treated sewage water) could have all kinds of nasties on it.

I buy from a local vietnamese market (in the USA) that gets most of its produce from local farmers. Ironically, not only is the produce much, much cheaper, the quality is far superior to that what is found in chain supermarkets that get their stuff from foreign growers.

If you have a local vietnamese market, check it out as it may be worth your while. The unfortunate aspect is that such a market may also have lots of canned and dry goods and whatnot imported from China. You’ll want to bypass those, of course. Unless you’re into suicide or being maimed at the moment, natch.

But this does not mean we have to clean up our emissions and find more efficient power sources or at least improve the efficiency of our power systems. Pollution comes in many forms, but CO2 at even much higher levels than now is not one of them. But we do need to clean most of the other ones.

Now, coming back to irradiation… people have to understand that you can never, ever, get a more energetic emission of electromagnetic waves or particles than that which is used for the excitation. If that was the case, it would not take long for the whole universe to blow up. But that does not mean you can’t render non radioactive material radioactive… it all depends on the excitation source, its intensity and time of exposure and the type of decays the exposed molecules/atoms go through. A prime example is those drugs used in radio-therapy. However, in the case of food irradiation, the wavelength and intensity won’t ever produce such radioactive material. If you put a Geiger detector next to the irradiated food you won’t be able to tell the difference from the background radiation.

“Karmakaze, science does not take sides, only the side of Truth. I am a man of science and I see that you do your research too.”

That is great to hear. I’m sure one day you will stop falling for the constantly changing anti-AGW bullshit then.

A little OT, but in just the last few years it has gone from, “there is no global warming”, to “there is global warming but it’s natural and caused by the sun”, to “there is global warming caused by the sun, but now its going to cool” to “no, you’re all wrong, it’s the moon!” Every time their bullshit is disproved, they just pluck a new lie out of their arses and run with that, knowing that every time they do, they delay the inevitable day when WE are freed from the fossil fuel slavery.

Back on topic, the only difference between UV and Gamma rays is the frequency of the photons. They are both ionising radiation – meaning they can detach an electron from an atom or molecule. In fact even visible light is an ionising radiation. The range of atoms and molecules visible light can ionise is far lower than gamma rays though. But for the atoms that both can isonise, there is no difference. The effect is exactly the same. That is why photographic film can be used to detect gamma rays too.

Another point to note, lower doses of radiation don’t necessarily kill bacteria or viruses, but they can render them incapable of reproduction which effectively prevents infection. So the dose used is determined by the effect required.

In no case though does the bacteria or virus or plant cells themselves become radioactive, just like shining a light on a photographic film doesn’t make it glow.

—-

@Just a Red Neck

“Wow, I am so humbled by your vast knowledge. (Just in case you missed it, that was sarcasm)”

No, really? Oh my god, I thought you were really praising me! You had me so fooled!

“First off, on my planet statements like: “So let me get this straight”, are usually read as: “Warning! Sarcastic Statements May Follow!”. I see why my friend says that sarcasm is wasted on most folks. BTW, just a suggestion, next time try the decaf.”

Oh, so you didn’t REALLY think that UV caused you to suddenly start radiating UV light? You were just being sarcastic?

“BTW, your first comment which asks if I ever heard of a sunburn; goes on to state how harmful the UV is; so I ask, “how is this good for my food again”?”

I don’t know, by killing bacteria like E. Coli that can cause bloody diarrhea and even death, and it can do it without leaving ANY toxic substances on the food for you to ingest? Could THAT be it? Unless of course, like I said above, you think getting a sunburn suddenly makes you radioactive, that is.

“You then go further and state how powerful of a disinfectant UV is and then again fail to address how this is good for food.”

By disinfecting it? I’m pretty sure that’s what disinfectants do. Maybe in YOUR world they don’t… Oh, you are still talking about UV light making things radioactive, aren’t you?

“You then contradict the article which states they are using UV to disinfect or irradiate lettuce and spinach, by stating that is not what they are doing.”

Where in the article do they state they are using UV light to irradiate food? YOU are the one that said THAT, not the article. As I said UV is not powerful enough for food irradiation. For that, they usually use gamma and X-rays.

“You then list the fact that they are already doing this to other foods as a means of substantiating that using UV to irradiate plants using UV is safe.”

Not at all, because they DON’T use UV to irradiate food. I used it to state they have been irradiating food in the US for years, and no one has died of radiation poisoning yet, simply because it is physically impossible to make a radioactive substance by irradiating a non-radioactive substance. Irradiating ANYTHING leave no trace of the radiation. All that is left is damaged molecules like viral or bacterial DNA.

If you think that is dangerous, you better not cook your spinach, or any food for that matter, because cooking does exactly the same thing.

“You then go on and assume that everyone cooks their lettuce and spinach (which does the same thing as irradiating it) and if they do not do that, they can look forward to diarrhea.”

If it is infected with E. Coli they can, see the latest spinach related E. Coli outbreak in the US, for an example.

“Did I miss anything? Oh yea, you totally ignored the fact that I said that the Steri Pen product which is used to disinfect water by irradiating it with UV by destroying the DNA structure of the organisms is irradiating a non-organic material.”

But the water becomes radioactive, right? Or is it only spinach molecules that become radioactive when subject to UV light as found in normal sunlight?

Seriously, I have no idea what you are trying to say, and I highly doubt you do either.

Please eat irradiated food so you can die sooner and leave more oxygen and women and hemp for me.

Wow, I am so humbled by your vast knowledge. (Just in case you missed it, that was sarcasm)

First off, on my planet statements like: “So let me get this straight”, are usually read as: “Warning! Sarcastic Statements May Follow!”. I see why my friend says that sarcasm is wasted on most folks. BTW, just a suggestion, next time try the decaf.

BTW, your first comment which asks if I ever heard of a sunburn; goes on to state how harmful the UV is; so I ask, “how is this good for my food again”?

You then go further and state how powerful of a disinfectant UV is and then again fail to address how this is good for food.

You then contradict the article which states they are using UV to disinfect or irradiate lettuce and spinach, by stating that is not what they are doing.

You then list the fact that they are already doing this to other foods as a means of substantiating that using UV to irradiate plants using UV is safe.

You then go on and assume that everyone cooks their lettuce and spinach (which does the same thing as irradiating it) and if they do not do that, they can look forward to diarrhea.

Did I miss anything? Oh yea, you totally ignored the fact that I said that the Steri Pen product which is used to disinfect water by irradiating it with UV by destroying the DNA structure of the organisms is irradiating a non-organic material.

One other thing, my statement that plant us UV to grow was incorrect, plants do not use UV, so I stand corrected.

Some interesting reading material:

http://www.osti.gov/energycita.....id=6657527

http://cache.search.yahoo.net/.....p;.intl=us

http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/eae/O.....lants.html