YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A RACIST/NAZI
DO YOU HAVE ANY EDUCATION?
YOU SOUND LIKE AN IDIOT, SORRY, YOU DONT SOUND LIKE AN IDIOT. YOU ARE AN IDIOT.
ARE YOU ON WELFARE?
JUST REMEMBER YOUR GOD IS A JEW YOU DUMB FUCK NAZI!! HAHA

Please excuse my less-than diplomatic responses in my previous posts, as I am also fed-up in my own way. I am impressed by your ability to find the historical information that you reference in your posts; I don’t mean that in a sarcastic way. I really do try to see both of the issues, and your history perspective is very enlightening to me. You have proven to be very resourceful in this exchange. I would like to point out however, that I have a number of writings here that would be easy for me to quote in a way that is not very flattering to the Christian religion.

Islam has their infidels and Christianity has their heretics. I will again mention the crusades along with the treatment of the Incas at Machu Picchu, all atrocities committed in the name of Christianity. We can throw child molestation in the mix too. The list can go on and on. This happens when religions are interpreted for ones own ends (both Christian and Muslim). Would it be fair for me to say “I don’t feel that Christians are inherently evil. But Christianity is”? I don’t think so. At least not by my reasoning. These things happen when men of great fault achieve great social power. This brings us back to where I Keep trying to bring it back to.

All of this history is academic. Neither you or I were there, nor did we experience any of it. What we do know is the capacity of men to commit horrid acts no matter what their race, religion, nationality, etc. I feel that it is extremely dangerous to overlook such a simple truth because then we start to put people in boxes- literally. Just look around. Remember the person who shot the Indian man after 911 because the man was wearing a turban? Is that indicative of all Americans? Many people around the world are starting to think so, and it’s wrong. Ignorance comes in many forms and is the ultimate root of evil.

I guess the position that I’m trying to take here is my belief that good people are good people no matter what their chosen religion; not the other way around. My understanding of history or perceived lack thereof is of no real importance here. Out of the 1.5 million people living in the ~ 25mi x 5mi Gaza strip, I think it would be safe to assume that there are a lot of good people who are caught in the middle. As pointed out in my previous post, the Israeli government has no intentions of coming to terms. The ball is in there court. I feel that there is a great injustice being carried out against them.

So without getting into a history debate, let me ask you: What is your position and assessment on the predicament of the civilian population of the people of Gaza? Is there a humanitarian crisis? Do they deserve it because they’re less than human? Where do you stand?

By the way, have you read “The Peoples History of the United States” by Howard Zinn? Very interesting perspective.

Islam is not a race. But I kind of expected you to play the “race card”.
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jay Says:
“A broad stroke indeed, assuming that ALL Christian Palestinians are innocent and suffer at the hands of ALL Muslin Palestinians. If that is not what you meant, you should choose your words more carefully, like the educated man that you seem to present yourself as.”

I did choose my words carefully…. it is you who not-so-slyly inserted the “all”.
But the fact remains, Hamas was elected by the majority of Muslim Palestinians.
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jay Says:
“If you paid for your studies, you should get your money back. The volatility in that region of the world is a “relatively” recent phenomenon (slightly more than a half century). People from all over the world used to take vacations in that part of the world. Although political Islam dates back to the 1920’s, radical/militant Islam is a byproduct of Western expansionism and foreign policy.”

You are sorely uninformed and obviously have zero knowledge of Islam or Islamic history. Militant Islam and terrorism date back to the false prophet Mohammad, and has never ceased since. Volatility in the ME has only experienced times of lull when non-Muslims have been put in their place through terror, and they paid the jizyah protection money, and observed the shariah controls forced upon them.

I am not saying all Muslims are inherently evil. But Islam IS.
It is the remaining humanity many Muslims that allow them to disregard the hate, racism, and supremacism espoused by the Quran, and are good people DESPITE Islam.
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jay Says:
“America’s first experience with militant Islam did not even occur until 1979 with the overthrow of the Shah by Iranian people and the ensuing hostage crisis. Hmm, why did that happen? Why-did-that-happen? If you truly studied, you would have learned this history. Don’t take my word for it, check for yourself. Or once again, are you afraid?”

Apparently you are afraid of reality and history. Americas first experience with militant Islam dates back to the Barbary Pirates – this is even highlighted in a nationalist song “…from the hall of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli…”

** From AMERICAN SPHINX The Character of Thomas Jefferson by Joseph J. Ellis **

“Several muslim countries along the North African coast had established the tradition of plundering the ships of European and American merchants in the western Mediterranean and eastern Atlantic, capturing the crews and then demanding ransom from the respective governments for their release. In a joint message to their superiors in Congress, Adams and Jefferson described the audacity of these terrorist attacks, pirates leaping onto defenseless ships with daggers clenched in their teeth. They had asked the ambassador from Tripoli, Adams and Jefferson explained, on what grounds these outrageous acts of unbridled savagery could be justified: “The Ambassador answered us that it was founded on the laws of the prophet, that it was written in their koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their [islams] authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners….”

This event occured between 1784-1789 while Jefferson was ambassador to France and Adams (2nd president) was ambassador to England.
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John Quincy Adams:
“In the seventh century of the Christian era, a wandering Arab of the lineage of Hagar (mohammed), the Egyptian, combining the powers of transcendent genius, with the preternatural energy of a fanatic, and the fraudulent spirit of an impostor, proclaimed himself as a messenger from Heaven, and spread desolation and delusion over an extensive portion of the earth. Adopting from the sublime conception of the Mosaic law, the doctrine of one omnipotent god; he connected indissolubly with it, the audacious falsehood, that he was himself his prophet and apostle. Adopting from the new Revelation of Jesus, the faith and hope of immortal life, and of future retribution, he humbled it to the dust by adapting all the rewards and sanctions of his religion to the gratification of the sexual passion. He poisoned the sources of human felicity at the fountain, by degrading the condition of the female sex, and the allowance of polygamy; and he declared undistinguishing and exterminating war, as a part of his religion, against all the rest of mankind. THE ESSENCE OF HIS DOCTRINE WAS VIOLENCE AND LUST: TO EXALT THE BRUTAL OVER THE SPIRITUAL PART OF HUMAN NATURE (Adam’s capital letters)…Between these two religions, thus contrasted in their characters, a war of twelve hundred years has already raged. The war is yet flagrant…While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon the earth, and good will towards men”

John Quincy Adams
Sixth President of The United States of America
1830

*** Note Adam’s own caps ****
I hope no one tries to convince me that Mr. Adams was watching too much western biased television!

I make this statement to point out the fact that I have met many people from that part of the world and in my experience, most (not all) are not separated by their religious differences. It appears however, that you like to stereotype muslims, and that my friend is nothing short of radical prejudice. -

“…by the Muslims…and… because of their Muslim counterparts…”

A broad stroke indeed, assuming that ALL Christian Palestinians are innocent and suffer at the hands of ALL Muslin Palestinians. If that is not what you meant, you should choose your words more carefully, like the educated man that you seem to present yourself as.
If I were to say that all Christians were bad based on the crusades of the catholic church or that all catholics were baby rapers, that would likewise be just an ignorant of a statement as the generalizations that people make towards Muslims.

If I were also to tell you that college students can’t read or write, you could correct me based on the fact that you visited a college campus. There would be nothing laughable about that.
So, aside from your gossip and hearsay, what is your “experience”? Where did you study? Under whom?

Fed-up Says:
“I spent an equal amount of time as your entire time in the army, studying Islam and this whole “palestinian” issue, and have debated with dozens of Muslims, have known and befriended a few Christian “palestinians” in the US, who have told me their family stories and how they were driven from their homes by…. not Israelis, but MUSLIMS.”

If you paid for your studies, you should get your money back. The volatility in that region of the world is a “relatively” recent phenomenon (slightly more than a half century). People from all over the world used to take vacations in that part of the world. Although political Islam dates back to the 1920’s, radical/militant Islam is a byproduct of Western expansionism and foreign policy.

The Western-installed Nasser government of Egypt captured and tortured Sayyid Qutb and his followers in the 1960’s. This moment was the catalyst for (and the beginning of) the violence that would follow to this day. America’s first experience with militant Islam did not even occur until 1979 with the overthrow of the Shah by Iranian people and the ensuing hostage crisis. Hmm, why did that happen? Why-did-that-happen? If you truly studied, you would have learned this history. Don’t take my word for it, check for yourself. Or once again, are you afraid?
Look, I’m not siding with radical Islam. Murder is murder no matter who does it, and that includes the Israeli government. It doesn’t take a genius to understand that violence only leads to more violence and this whole thing can only escalate if that is path that people choose. No matter what side a person is on, their death creates two additional enemies until someone wises up. Do the math. If you think that this has no affect on you or the ones you love, you are sadly mistaken. The consequences of this are far reaching.

Fed_up Says:
“And you know, if you’re integrity and self-honesty are worth their salt, you’d understand that Israel would be quite happy to grant them that.”

In your own famous words: Complete BS!
But hey, don’t take my word for it. How about straight from the horse mouth:

- According to the Israeli press, Yuval Diskin, the current head of the Israeli security service Shin Bet, “told the Israeli cabinet [on 23 December] that Hamas is interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve its terms.” Diskin explained that Hamas was requesting two things: an end to the blockade, and an Israeli ceasefire on the West Bank. The cabinet – high with election fever and eager to appear tough – rejected these terms.

-The core of the situation has been starkly laid out by Ephraim Halevy, the former head of Mossad. He says that while Hamas militants – like much of the Israeli right-wing – dream of driving their opponents away, “they have recognised this ideological goal is not attainable and will not be in the foreseeable future.” Instead, “they are ready and willing to see the establishment of a Palestinian state in the temporary borders of 1967.” They are aware that this means they “will have to adopt a path that could lead them far from their original goals” – and towards a long-term peace based on compromise.
The rejectionists on both sides – from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran to Bibi Netanyahu of Israel – would then be marginalised. It is the only path that could yet end in peace but it is the Israeli government that refuses to choose it. Halevy explains: “Israel, for reasons of its own, did not want to turn the ceasefire into the start of a diplomatic process with Palestine.”——————-

I would like to point out that ALL of our (mine included) relative positions and historical knowledge on this are academic to the reality on the ground. It only serves to overshadow what is happening to REAL PEOPLE right now at this very moment. You are not the only person who happens to know families from Palestine or Israel. For every one you know who says one thing, I can find one who says the opposite. There are plenty of Christian Palestinians and Jewish Israelis who disagree with what the government of Israel is doing.

I ask again, aside from your gossip and hearsay, what is your “experience”? Perhaps you should buy a plane ticket and go see the violence for yourself first hand, because that is the real issue here.
Who did what first to whom is not an excuse to kill hundreds – soon to be thousands of innocent people (Christian, Muslim, Jew-there are Also Jewish Palestinians) who’s only crime is to be caught between two governments with their heads up their asses.

Complete BS. They only got along “just fine” as long as the jizyah was being paid and non-Muslims didn’t practice their religion in public, once Islam violently ceased power. All is well as long as non-muslims remain good dhimmis.

Yes, there are many Christian “palestinians”. And I really feel for them in a big way. They have never once engaged in terrorism or homicide/suicide bombings, that I am aware of. The one’s I have known are such loving people. It is so unfortunate they are driven from their homes and bombed out of their shops by the Muslims…and… because of their Muslim counterparts, they must suffer in the crossfire between Hamas, Hezbollah, and Israel.

READ: Christian Bookstore Bombed By Palestinian Islamic Terrorists

One political source in the city told WND at the time of the attack, “the identity of the attackers is well known to Hamas. We don’t expect the Hamas-controlled police, the Hamas city council or the Hamas Interior Ministry to do anything about this attack.”

The source called the arson a “warning to YMCA’s and Christian groups in the Palestinian areas that they are not safe.”

One Christian leader, an aide to Jerusalem’s Latin Patriarch Michel Sabah who asked his name be withheld out of fear of Muslim retaliation, called the threats against Qalqiliya’s YMCA part of a general trend of Christian persecution in Palestinian areas.

“It’s been happening all over the West Bank and Gaza,” said the aide.”
LINK: search the title, as the filter here won;t alow me to post the link
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READ: Christians Fleeing Palestinian Controlled Areas

Quote:
“The Christians of Bethlehem saw the destruction of the mainstay of their livelihood — Christian pilgrimage and other tourism. Furthermore, much of the violence has been perpetrated by the radical Muslim organizations, Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Imposing Muslim codes [Fed_up says - that means Shari'ah law] in the Bethlehem area and violence against its Christian residents have considerably expanded, including occasional attacks on women. ”

LINK: again, search the title
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WATCH: Muslim Palestinians persecuting Christian Palestinians
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX5a9lSG0Rk

jay Says:
“Fundamentally, these people are just like anyone else that you or I know. “JUST LIKE”. I spent eight years in the US Army, some of it in the middle east. I speak from experience-REAL knowledge. ”

So, let me get this straight — because you spent “some” time in the ME, sheltered in the cocoon of the army, that makes you a scholar on the subject? That’s like saying, because you visited a college campus, therefore you are as knowledgeable as a graduate. Quite laughable.
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jay Says:
“What do you speak from? ”
I spent an equal amount of time as your entire time in the army, studying Islam and this whole “palestinian” issue, and have debated with dozens of Muslims, have known and befriended a few Christian “palestinians” in the US, who have told me their family stories and how they were driven from their homes by…. not Israelis, but MUSLIMS.
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jay Says:
“This whole mess is a matter of nationalist aggression and apartheid. If you can’t see that at this point in the game, it’s because you don’t want to. What are you so afraid of?”

I am afraid of nothing in your context. You know what, go ask any Christian “palestinian”, who doesn’t live under the duress of Muslims, what they really think about the situation. Yes, they would like their own homeland, and to live in peace, without having to pay “protection money” to the Islamic supremacists, and with the ability to freely express their religion in public as they desire, and free from the crossfire between Hamas and Israel.

And you know, if you’re integrity and self-honesty are worth their salt, you’d understand that Israel would be quite happy to grant them that.

IT’S TIME FOR ALL INFOWARRIORS TO STEP UP, STEP FORWARD, AND POLLUTE THE
WORLD WITH OUR COLLECTIVE KNOWLEDGE OF CONSCIOUSNESS. 1 LOVE !!!!!!!!!!!

TIME TO GIVE POWER BACK 2 THE PEOPLE, GIVEN BY THE PEOPLE, & GIVEN 4 THE PEOPLE

AND SO BEGINS THE REVOLUTION …………………………………………….

…….”RON PAUL”…………………….”ALEX JONES”…………………………”DAVID ICKE”…………..
…..FOR PRESIDENT…………….FOR VICE-PRESIDENT………….FOR SECRETARY-OF-STATE…..