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  • New Zealand: “You are no longer innocent till you’re proven guilty.” Police Minister responds: “It’s fantastic, isn’t it?”

    cryptogon.com
    Tuesday, Nov 3rd, 2009

    So it goes…

    Via: Scoop:

    PAUL Yeah but the truth is, under the Criminal Proceeds Act, the Police can take your property if they suspect you’re dodgy.

    JUDITH But you’ve got the right to get it back, you’ve got the right to claim it, and the Police…

    PAUL Yeah but then you’ve got a whole matter of procedure to go through because the cops have decided they suspect you got the property criminally.

    JUDITH Well actually Police would lose all credibility if they went round doing that unnecessarily. They’ve got a lot of leads, they know exactly who they’re after, and they will be after them.

    PAUL Search and Surveillance Bill – new powers for all enforcement officers, like Meat Board Inspectors, like the Overseas Investment Office, like the Civil Aviation Inspector, like the Pork Industry Board Inspector, like the Reserve Bank Inspector, the Dog Control Officer. When it comes to surveillance all of those people have the same powers now as the Police?

    JUDITH It really is a terrible sounding list isn’t it Paul, and what is even more terrible is to know that those powers are already in legislation but they’re interested in a whole lot of different legislation, this bill has come in because of the work of the Law Commission looking at all the various powers and trying to put some rules around them.

    New Zealand: “You are no longer innocent till you’re proven guilty.” Police Minister responds: “It’s fantastic, isn’t it?”  071009banner3

    PAUL The powers are extended. Look there’s two and a bit pages, I’ll read you a few. Agricultural Compounds and Veterinary Medicines Inspector – Animal Products Inspector – Animal Welfare Inspector – Antarctic Marine Living Resources Inspector – Children Young Persons and their Families Inspector – the Extradition Act Inspector – Marine Mammals Protection Inspector. All of these people have the power to come into your premises, to command your IT provider to provide them with all their computer records, to detain you, to use reasonable force, to rub you down, pat you, search you – the Pork Industry Board Inspector.

    JUDITH That sounds terrible doesn’t it? That’s one of the reasons why the Select Committee has actually said they’re not reporting back until May, they want to go through the whole bill and make sure they’ve got everything sorted out, but the Law Commission is very firm that these are existing powers but they often don’t have proper regulations around them. Look I’m like any other New Zealander, I want to know why would the Port Industry Inspector have those sorts of powers just like everyone else, and that’s why we’re certainly looking at them.

    PAUL But at the moment what’s proposed in the bill, is that any of those people can break in premises, and to search everything, detain, use reasonable force, conduct a rub down search and command your IT provider to surrender your computer records, that’s what’s been proposed in the bill.

    JUDITH Well that’s what’s all being looked at now, and I think that’s one of the reasons the Select Committee is taking extra time to look at it, is to make sure that there’s nothing in there that shouldn’t be there, and also to deal with any concerns people have.

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    51 Responses to “New Zealand: “You are no longer innocent till you’re proven guilty.” Police Minister responds: “It’s fantastic, isn’t it?””

    1. herbert Says:

      New Zealand is a small place with a population of just over 4 million people. It’s quite easy to find out where someone lives. If an Animal Products Inspector or any of the other fools on the list decides he wants to take peoples stuff or search or detain on a whim, then maybe he’ll have to offer something in return………like his life.

      GrumbleTroll Reply:

      Yeah, but luckily, NZ is a deballed country with an unarmed citizenry. What can they really do about regulatory thugs?

      Patriotgal Reply:

      Actually, NZers have more machine guns per capita than the US. I certainly hope that IF the thugs start going out, they just DON’T go home that night. SAME FOR THE USA!!!
      At some point, the few real Americans left WILL STAND UP. Probably be killed, but I’m sure that some of the thugs will get to meet their maker, also.

      srp511 Reply:

      I PROMISE

      will hale Reply:

      true true true
      and when the current primeminister admitted in a recent interview that explosives brought down the towers….no one blinked
      went right on watching those dog/sheep tv shows

      Guns N Rosaries Reply:

      Soylent Green. The only thing missing is people being used for food. Or is it truly missing?

      william b travis Reply:

      where do you think the green vegetarian movement is heading

      Jim Lunsford Reply:

      What do you think the mystery meat in Spam is? lol

      addy Reply:

      Well, they are using aborted baby cells for face cream now…..

      See http://www.neocutis.com

      Sickening!

    2. Billy Green Says:

      Citizens are not unarmed in NZ.
      Guns are legal and used by Hunters…Shotguns and Rifles.
      2 legged critters might be the next game in NZ for these tyrannical, traitorous politicians.

      srp511 Reply:

      When a couple inspectors “go missing” it’ll slow down

      Joe Reply:

      not “missing” – but dismembered

    3. hologram5 Says:

      What is new about this? It is like that here in the US now. Cops believe you are guilty to begin with.

      Patriotgal Reply:

      Yes, they are now being trained in an “US VS. THEM” philosophy. It is sad, no more “protect and serve”, but “assume the position!”.
      Just keep pushing, a little more….

      srp511 Reply:

      At what point d the cops become a terrorist and it is a self defense situation?

      Patriotgal Reply:

      It depends on how much you value your personal dignity vs. your life. Period.
      THAT is the choice we must all now face. I will NOT allow myself to be handcuffed, period. If it means that I die, that is my choice. I promise a good fight, though. On my SACRED HONOR!

      Sic Semper Tyrannis!!!

      pitofdoom Reply:

      Become one with Tyranny, it’s hard on the soul but easy on the flesh!!
      Let us now “ohm” in green unison of carbon death care bliss, ohm……..

      Patriotgal Reply:

      Gee, pitofdoom, that sounds almost biblical!

      Jim Lunsford Reply:

      I’m actually going to jail in January. On Halloween I got ticketed by the game warden for shining wildlife with a flashlight. No shit. Me and my nephew were looking for deer, but had no guns. I’m not paying any damn fine for some stupid ass law in which I had no ill intent nor can they prove I have any such intent. This is a poor county, so when they pay for my jail time, it will hurt them.

      Angry Moderate Reply:

      I wondered where you were, Jim. How long is the sentence?

    4. Zimbabalouie Says:

      My mother had penpals ( a long forgotten traadition) from New Zealand for my whole lfe. These wonderful people were working class and they saved up to visit my mother and several of their friends abroad three or four times that I recall. When they visited they brought pictures and souviegners that left me inspired to want to visit their country.

      All of my childhood dreams have been replaced with the adult knowledge that if you visit this country you are subjected to draconian rules of a society that does not believe in any individual rights. This country is solidly founded on the principal that the order of the society will dictate all and if you object you will be quite sorry.

      Mariposa Reply:

      Zimbab, that is the biggest load of drivel I have read in years. NZ is one of the most easygoing places on the planet. It’s gentle, peaceful and beautiful, and the people are civilized in the true sense of the word – they actually CARE about each other. And if one of those strange inspectors did turn up to demand anything, he’d probably get his lights punched out.

    5. Botrax Says:

      New Zealand is a Common Law jurisdiction. That means people can have guns all they want, and any new acts do not actually apply to people, only persons, which are fictitious entities according to law.

      Patriotgal Reply:

      Try getting a “judge” to honor common law! Pigs will fly, first.

    6. Incriminally Sane Says:

      The same statement holds true in all nations that have sold out to the GLOBALIST BANKERS that now claim ownership of your very souls, it is up to you to take back the most basic of GOD GIVEN FREEDOMS that they have assumed to be theirs!

      pitofdoom Reply:

      You are caesars pet once again, now do what, when and how you’re told,
      and enjoy the privileges granted you day by day.

    7. truther Says:

      I have an urgent message for you, more important than any message you can hear. God is Holy and cannot accept sin(honor thy mother and father…, thou shall not kill, thou shall not commit adultery, thou shall not steal, thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor, thou shall not covet..etc…Exodus 20:12-17). Here are some verses that show examples of sin:

      “Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.” Matthew 5:21-22

      “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” Matthew 5:27-28

      “It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.” Matthew 5:31-32

      “For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” Romans 3:23. Your good deeds cannot cover up your bad deeds.

      “But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Isaiah 64:6

      “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” Romans 3:10-12

      You could be perfect in all the law and stumble at one point and it is as if you broke all of them:

      “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” James 2:10

      “Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.” James 4:17

      God wrote the law on each man’s heart so they are without excuse on judgment day when we will ALL stand before Christ(”Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another” Romans 2:15). The penalty of sin is death and eternal punishment in the LAKE OF FIRE. I am warning you about hell because I love you! You are dead in your sins and headed for hell which is described in the Word as a FIRE THAT QUENCHES NOT(”…the fire is not quenched” Mark 9:44). It is a horrible and terrible place of everlasting torment that people will go because of their sins.

      “And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.” Luke 16:22-24

      “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;” 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

      But God has provided a way for each to escape the lake of fire. He sent his Son Jesus(God manifest in the flesh-1 Timothy 3:16) who was conceived by a virgin by the Holy Spirit of God,lived a sinless life, and suffered a horrible death/shed blood and rose again 3 days later to take the penalty of YOUR sins so you dont have to pay for them in hell for eternity! He loved you so much which is why he did it! He is the only one to have fufilled the law perfectly(sinless) and paid the price of the entire world’s sins so that man could be saved on the merits of His perfection(see Romans 5:19). All you must do to be saved is BELIEVE in Him(trust in Him to save you as a sinner). You must admit your lost sinful condition to Him/that you’re worthy of hell, and ask Him to save you by placing complete trust in Jesus ALONE for salvation(an example in the Word of someone doing this- “And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.” Luke 18:13).It is not even partly by yourselves that you can be saved, but only by the merits of Jesus Christ!

      “For God so loved the world, He sent his only Begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life” John 3:16.

      “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world” 1 John 2:2

      “…Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,” Revelation 1:5

      “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” 1 Corinthians 15:3-4

      “Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Acts 16:29-31

      “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Romans 4:5

      “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” Romans 10:9-10

      No works or anything you do can save you! May God open your eyes, that one day I may see you in heaven. Read the Word of God(the 1611 King James version- NOT the modern versions, they are corrupt) before rejecting it! Death is fleeting. You may NOT have tomorrow! For death comes when we least expect it! Make sure you are saved TODAY! The Bible condemns the rich, the wealthy, and those who take advantage of the poor, so it CANNOT have been made up by the elite. Because the Word clearly CONDEMNS people such as those! It declares all mankind as sinners(myself included).

      I am a Christian, and love you enough to warn you of the dangers of hell. Beware, the Roman catholic church is NOT Christian! The church CANNOT save you but only Christ! Just because someone says they are a Christian does not necessarily mean they are one(remember the crusades in history? Many were murdered in the name of Christianity. These were no Christians at all by their testimony). Please email me to inquire more. I would be glad to help you out in your search for truth!(my email- livingwaters705@hotmail.com)…To those who slander/mock me, I pray for you and love you anyways and hope you will trust Christ before its too late!

      I call upon my fellow Christians on here to return hate posts with love and blessings. The Lord commands us to love them:

      “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.” Matthew 5:43-45

      Salvation is not found in good works, rituals, church, the pope, water baptism, good lives, etc….But ONLY found by faith in Jesus Christ the Savior!

      If you need prayer or anything, just let me know! I would be glad to help! I love and care for you, and I have prayed that every person that reads this who do not know the Lord, would one day turn to Christ in faith for salvation for their sins. I beg you to turn to Christ in faith before it is too late! You get ONE chance while living and then it is too late forever:

      “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” Hebrews 9:27

      “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:32

      “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6

      “…there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.” Isaiah 45:21-22

      “And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Revelation 22:17

      js Reply:

      Yeah, sure…

      Not the dumb... Reply:

      I’m so glad we’re in the digital age so the above post doesn’t waste any paper or ink… just time and space.

      Keep looking for a savior, “truther”. See where that gets you.

    8. tay Says:

      common law is commercial law,bad example buddy

    9. tay Says:

      and people is legalese too

    10. jebb Says:

      it’s sad when a small country acts like a big country to it’s own peopl. one would think that a place like zealand would almost have people power veto over their rulers.
      but like the rest of the world it’s divide and conquer. keep people fighting each other over small things and the rulers do as they wish.

      I guess a police state is a police state and the people will learn to love it or take up their weapons

      UpIsDown Reply:

      That would be NEW Zealand.

    11. TrueDemocratLiberal Says:

      New Zeeland needs to go after the filty smokers and shoot them on site. Thats guilty before proven inocent. You can as much see the filthy murdering smokers up and down the streets and theyshould be shot dead – guilty – end of story.

      who cares Reply:

      people like you should be run through a meat grinder

      Louis Reply:

      a little off-topic here, but what percentage of NZ males are gay? Just wondered.

    12. bees r dying Says:

      new zealand citizen
      two months ago the govenment made it against the law to own a hunting rifle if it looked like a sniper rifle

      looked like a sniper rifle

      beware being disarmed we have no say anymore govnment signs anything it wants into law because we are helpless dont let the U.S. go the same way

    13. DA Says:

      I am an expat american in NZ.
      The police here are friendly and unarmed. There is an armed offender squad but they are only called out to confront people who are waving guns.
      The attitude of the police is polar opposite of the US police.
      This is NOT a police state. Yet.
      Clearly, this law is designed to move us in that direction.
      But trust me, we are still 20 years behind the US

      and there can never really be that Us Vs. Them attitude because of the small size of the population. The police here are part of the community and are not militarized. Yet.

      The biggest concern I have is that the Us Vs. Them attitude is creeping in based on ethnic divides. Pakeha (white) vs. Maori. And there is a lot of unrest because of the influx of asian immigrants.

      It will be interesting to watch it all unfold.

      but don’t feel sorry for us. It will take us quite a long time to catch up to the US or UK in police state tactics. If it is even possible.
      The Kiwis are much more political and not nearly as sheeple as the americans. Maybe it is because we have plenty of sheep in the form of animals –already.

      LLM Reply:

      I’m living in NZ too. Your remarks are accurate I think.

      I think New Zealand will be laid-back about this. Most will not think about it.

      Maybe it’s because in the last decade we’ve had government passing an average of 7 new laws a week. And nobody knows what they are.

      It is my duty to obey all of these 350 new laws a year, and ignorance of what they are is no excuse in a court. But I would only know about three of these on average. Not a clue what the others were.

      As to the Maori-Pakeha divide thing, yes. But “te tiriti” guarantees to Maori “the same” as to all others. Shouldn’t that in reverse mean that our “taonga” are guaranteed as well as Maori taonga? One of my customary rights is certainly freedom from pork inspectors wanting to come in and pat me down. (Well, it’s at least as customary as Tipene O’Regan’s customary fishing rights. His one-sixteenth Maori father was a barrister, a knight of the realm, and a rich Wellingtonian, so the customary fishing would I presume have been mostly battered terakihi in one of what passed for restaurants in those days. But he led his tribe to claim hundreds of millions of dollars for that.)

    14. Republic0 Says:

      New Zealand is a small people population for a large land mass. They are known for their large population of sheep. You would think that their politicians would have better things to screw with than the populace (people). I don’t think that the sheep would complain as much as the people over the screwing they are getting.

    15. js Says:

      For the most part the police have always been the enemy of the people, it’s just gotten much worse lately, at least here in the US. The day will soon come when people start decorating lampposts with blue ‘ornaments.’

    16. Rob Says:

      Yes,we are slightly bigger landmass than the u.k with just over 4 million people.Over a million live in Auckland and we call those self important pricks J.A.F.F.A’s(just another f-cking Aucklander!).lol.

      The police are like anywhere i guess some are good and some are ASSHOLES.The good thing is we have no army to speak of and nowhere near enough cops to make us all obey!.

      LLM Reply:

      Rob,

      “Nowhere near enough cops”? These ARE to be the new auxiliary cops. That is what it is about.

    17. borneveryminute_uk Says:

      Err. Who are you ?
      We’re from the Dog Control Board and we understand your dog has crapped on the pavement.
      We’re here to collect compensation for costs incurred during the cleanup operation. You know, protective chemical suits, DNA analysis laboratory overheads etc. We know it’s your dog that did it since your vet has been collecting samples under regulatory policy applicable to the compulsory pet insurance plan that you have, at the mandated twice yearly checks.
      Can you show me some ID ?
      Yes. Here it is. (stuffed in your face)
      Looks bogus to me, dude. I can spot a fake ID a mile away
      Standoff.
      I’m authorised to summon police assistance.
      Oh really ? Just so you know, I’ve read a number of newspaper reports of people posing as police officers, just lately. And bogus council officials conning there way into old peoples houses to rob them.
      Where do you think we should go from here ?

    18. borneveryminute_uk Says:

      Sorry. “their way”.

    19. rf Says:

      bill has not yet passed select commity reiew and will probably not be passed into law, atleast not in its current form. New Zealand (I live here) has a mixed member proportional (MMP) parlimentary system with the National party (neo liberal, populist) currently in control of a coalition government consisting of differing arrangements with the Maori (centre, maori populist), Act (neo liberal, libertarian) and United Future (socially conservative, centre right) parties. unless backroom deals with the Labour party (centre left(ish), main opposition) sqeeze this bill thru it is likely the Maori party will not support it and it will fail. The Greens wil fight this tooth and nail but the media is very good at ignoring them so we may not hear to much about it if Labour is on board. I can only hope reason provails and that people like PAUL continue to persue the story if it doesn’t.

      As a side note if this did go through the back door and the powers given were abussed it would likely be political suicide for the parties invoved in other words the starting gradient of this slippery slope will have to be very carefully managed to avoied backlash. politicians know this so expect them to target known gansters (flush with meth money) initially to garner public support. Once we’re on side they will start to spread its application much wider, expect this to wait till after the next election.

    20. The Transmogrifer Says:

      Common Law and UCC are very different. USA Inc. converted to UCC/Admiralty Law (a formal state of dictatorship) when ultra-traitor FDR sold the country, for all eternity, to the British Crown.

      Now New Zealand…I’d guess that it started out with Common Law of the Land, but, like us they have devolved to Equity or Commercial Law of the Water. Look at the judges of any country, nothing but a bunch heartless pricks who make the law on their benches to suit their lavish life-styles. Just take a good look at Alcee Hastings and his FEMA death camp initiative. He was a judge who got impeached and then became a career politician. Remember the “Peter” principle?

    21. Louis Says:

      in case anybody’s interested, here in Arizona in the USA, police will break into your home and/or vehicle while you’re away, if you have writen of their crimes to the local newspaper. They basically consider the Condtitution and other founding national documents as toilet paper.

    22. Mac Says:

      New Zealand isn’t even a real country for pete’s sake. A miserable little island of less than two million people with an economy in it’s 40th year of failure. However, they are an excellent model of where you Americans will soon find yourselves. Look around Americans, look around. It is too late to change anything without force of arms. A violent revolution is needed but will not happen! You are much like the NZ people in that you been completely brain-washed, dumbed down, and lost your will to fight. The only answer is to do as I have done and vote with your feet. Get out while you can.

    23. MiyokoGoto Says:

      If there is laws like them in the South, I bet blacks and minorities are the only ones to get their properties seized. Is what going on connected with Dr. J.A. English-Lueck and her daughter? Seizing properties by the suspicion by the people with authority seriously sounds familiar with what happened to me in San Jose, CA. When I lived in Pavona Apartment, the rooms above, below, right, left, and the one symmetry to mine were occupied by cause stalkers. They threatened me to kill me and I ran away from the apartment leaving my stuffs behind. That happened after Dr. English-Lueck and other faculties working at SJSU made up a claim of me as suicidal and forced me to be sent to Santa Clara Valley Medical Center when I was on my way to a classroom. Because the UPD, anthropologists, and psychiatrists all had their authority over making up claims while I remained powerless as a student and even could not prove myself denying to be suicidal because they did not listen to me.

      What I mean is that the experience I had might happen in NZ as well, if these authorities are paranoia believing on what they think and can do anything to their victims.

    24. paradise_spoilt Says:

      Shonkey John Key the NZ prime minister is used to getting his orders from Wall street being ex Merrill Lyncher, that’s where he still gets his orders from. The installment of the National Party as government has led to an increase in laws drafted to protect the elite of society at the expense of everybody else. Just like the US and UK we have bankers controlling our government here in NZ and doing everything they can to give them power to suppress any dangers to the monopoly positions their corporate benefactors perceive. Once upon a time this was a country with a backbone, that passed legislation we as a people could be proud of: a nuclear free country, the first to grant voting rights to women, compensation to indigenous people for colonial exploits (thanks UK). But now the banksters whores are in charge and they’re stealing everything that isn’t nailed down. But the rumblings of discontent are growing and people are awaking to what a bunch of greedy self interested pigs we have in power.


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