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NOAA deletes an “inconvenient” kids science web page
Watts Up With That?
Wednesday, Nov 4th, 2009
Hadley CRU isn’t the only government agency that deletes web content related to climate. NOAA/NWS Southern Region Headquarters has gotten into the act. An interesting thing happened today. NOAA deleted an educational web page about an experiment you can do with CO2.
Ordinarily such a thing would go unnoticed, especially since it doesn’t impact anything particularly important like policy, or climate data. It’s just an experiment for kids in the classroom.
Fortunately, I still had the web page open in my browser. I had been looking at it yesterday, and I had been thinking I might try the experiment myself with a datalogging thermometer, just for fun.
Here’s the web page as it was open in my browser:
click for full size image And here is what the same URL looks like now:
click for full size image You can try it out for yourself:
http://www.srh.noaa.gov/srh/jetstream/atmos/ll_gas.htm
What could cause NOAA to pull a web page like this on a moment’s notice?
Two things.
1 It was featured on Climate Depot yesterday.
2 It had this passage that must not have agreed with somebody higher up in the NOAA food chain:
It has been thought that an increase in carbon dioxide will lead to global warming. While carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has been increasing over the past 100 years, there is no evidence that it is causing an increase in global temperatures.
Or maybe it was this one:
The behavior of the atmosphere is extremely complex. Therefore, discovering the validity of global warming is complex as well. How much effect will the increase in carbon dioxide will have is unclear or even if we recognize the effects of any increase.
So rather than corrupt young minds with a simple science experiment with some inconvenient language attached to it, NOAA simply deleted it. Of course nothing is really deleted on the Internet anymore. NOAA looks pretty silly thinking it would go away with a simple delete.
The Wayback machine has the missing web page for posterity:
http://web.archive.org/web/20060129154229/http://www.srh.noaa.gov/srh/jetstream/atmos/ll_gas.htm
Now it looks like I’ll have to run their simple experiment. Stay tuned.
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18 Responses to “NOAA deletes an “inconvenient” kids science web page”
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November 4th, 2009 at 5:20 am
http://www.openyoureyesnews.com/tag/climate/
storky Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 11:22 am
This poorly designed experiment should be deleted. Apparently its author failed to notice that the seltzer tablets react exothermically — they give off heat as sodium bicarbonate and citric acid react chemically. With an unaccounted source of heat fouling the experiment, it should be removed. I would argue, however, that a note regarding the rationale for the removal of the experiment be provided in a footnote somewhere on the site.
Ray Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
Storky, once again you are wrong.
The reaction between sodium bicarbonate and citric acid is ENDOTHERMIC.
Here is a link from Berkeley: http://www.cchem.berkeley.edu/.....rbEndo.htm
The probable reason for the increased temperature is the increase of the pressure inside the bottle as in PV=nRT or if you prefer PV=kNT
storky Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
My goof, thanks for the clarification on the endothermic/exothermic mixup. The pressure rise also plays havoc. But either way, the experiment fails to demonstrate the point by introducing other unwanted influencing factors.
Ray Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
You should also admit that a CO2 concentration of (near) 100% is simply not representative of the 350 ppm in the atmosphere.
Also, once again, they refer to Venus. It is well understood that the high temperatures at the surface of Venus is due to the compression of the atmosphere (as it is more than twice the thickness of that on earth).
In any case, as you love to say, wrong premise (or experiment in this case), wrong conclusion.
Ray Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Storky, when you say “But either way, the experiment fails to demonstrate the point by introducing other unwanted influencing factors.”, do you imply that if the experiment does not provide evidence of the present global warming theory then it should be rejected? Isn’t that what they have been doing with the inconvenient data disproving CO2 was responsible for the peak warming we saw back in 1997? That would be deceptive and certainly not scientific.
storky Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
A badly designed experiment cannot demonstrate the theory.
“peak warming we saw back in 1997?”
Wrong! The top ten warmest years on record, globally, occurred since 1995. 2005 surpassed 1998 as the warmest and 1997 rates tenth.
Hangtime55 Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
But if seltzer tablets were added to both containers , then both containers would offset the additive .
DUH!
November 4th, 2009 at 6:19 am
http://www.KeepTheTruthAlive.com
November 4th, 2009 at 6:31 am
Start manipulating the true nature of reality when they are young. This way, they will never miss it. Especially when you proclaim them with ribbons and parades as the smartest, most informed generation ever! That is, until the next dumbed down generation manifests itself.
dorky Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 6:50 am
Hey – that’s where I & my good friends Snorky, Vain & Karmadaze all graduated!!!
Hangtime55 Reply:
November 4th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Yup , they’re telling todays youth :
DON’T CONFUSE ME WITH THE FACTS !
November 4th, 2009 at 6:34 am
Try leaving the lids of because as they keep saying CO2 is heavier than air.
When you return test with a long match to see if CO2 is still in the bottle, it won’t be. It will all have absorbed the heat and then under convection it will have taken taken the heat up and away from the source. This is not how you define trapping in heat. But it is how you define temperature regulation.
It takes a lid on a bottle or glass in a greenhouse to turn (trap) a gas into a greenhouse gas.
Don’t believe AGW is a fraud, know it!
http://www.spinonthat.com/CO2.html
November 4th, 2009 at 8:59 am
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November 4th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
I have an urgent message for you, more important than any message you can hear. God is Holy and cannot accept sin(honor thy mother and father…, thou shall not kill, thou shall not commit adultery, thou shall not steal, thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor, thou shall not covet..etc…Exodus 20:12-17). Here are some verses that show examples of sin:
“Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.” Matthew 5:21-22
“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” Matthew 5:27-28
“It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.” Matthew 5:31-32
“For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” Romans 3:23. Your good deeds cannot cover up your bad deeds.
“But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Isaiah 64:6
“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” Romans 3:10-12
You could be perfect in all the law and stumble at one point and it is as if you broke all of them:
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” James 2:10
“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.” James 4:17
God wrote the law on each man’s heart so they are without excuse on judgment day when we will ALL stand before Christ(”Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another” Romans 2:15). The penalty of sin is death and eternal punishment in the LAKE OF FIRE. I am warning you about hell because I love you! You are dead in your sins and headed for hell which is described in the Word as a FIRE THAT QUENCHES NOT(”…the fire is not quenched” Mark 9:44). It is a horrible and terrible place of everlasting torment that people will go because of their sins.
“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.” Luke 16:22-24
“In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;” 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
But God has provided a way for each to escape the lake of fire. He sent his Son Jesus(God manifest in the flesh-1 Timothy 3:16) who was conceived by a virgin by the Holy Spirit of God,lived a sinless life, and suffered a horrible death/shed blood and rose again 3 days later to take the penalty of YOUR sins so you dont have to pay for them in hell for eternity! He loved you so much which is why he did it! He is the only one to have fufilled the law perfectly(sinless) and paid the price of the entire world’s sins so that man could be saved on the merits of His perfection(see Romans 5:19). All you must do to be saved is BELIEVE in Him(trust in Him to save you as a sinner). You must admit your lost sinful condition to Him/that you’re worthy of hell, and ask Him to save you by placing complete trust in Jesus ALONE for salvation(an example in the Word of someone doing this- “And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.” Luke 18:13).It is not even partly by yourselves that you can be saved, but only by the merits of Jesus Christ!
“For God so loved the world, He sent his only Begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life” John 3:16.
“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world” 1 John 2:2
“…Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,” Revelation 1:5
“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” 1 Corinthians 15:3-4
“Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” Acts 16:29-31
“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Romans 4:5
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” Romans 10:9-10
No works or anything you do can save you! May God open your eyes, that one day I may see you in heaven. Read the Word of God(the 1611 King James version- NOT the modern versions, they are corrupt) before rejecting it! Death is fleeting. You may NOT have tomorrow! For death comes when we least expect it! Make sure you are saved TODAY! The Bible condemns the rich, the wealthy, and those who take advantage of the poor, so it CANNOT have been made up by the elite. Because the Word clearly CONDEMNS people such as those! It declares all mankind as sinners(myself included).
I am a Christian, and love you enough to warn you of the dangers of hell. Beware, the Roman catholic church is NOT Christian! The church CANNOT save you but only Christ! Just because someone says they are a Christian does not necessarily mean they are one(remember the crusades in history? Many were murdered in the name of Christianity. These were no Christians at all by their testimony). Please email me to inquire more. I would be glad to help you out in your search for truth!(my email- livingwaters705@hotmail.com)…To those who slander/mock me, I pray for you and love you anyways and hope you will trust Christ before its too late!
I call upon my fellow Christians on here to return hate posts with love and blessings. The Lord commands us to love them:
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.” Matthew 5:43-45
Salvation is not found in good works, rituals, church, the pope, water baptism, good lives, etc….But ONLY found by faith in Jesus Christ the Savior!
If you need prayer or anything, just let me know! I would be glad to help! I love and care for you, and I have prayed that every person that reads this who do not know the Lord, would one day turn to Christ in faith for salvation for their sins. I beg you to turn to Christ in faith before it is too late! You get ONE chance while living and then it is too late forever:
“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” Hebrews 9:27
“And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:32
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John 14:6
“…there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.” Isaiah 45:21-22
“And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” Revelation 22:17 …
November 4th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
^ Couldn’t even read it all, whoa.
November 8th, 2009 at 6:25 am
Computer based climate models.
These are the models on which the IPCC has based all of its predictions of AGW.
These models have been designed to ignore the Sun as a factor influencing climate. But however you try and justify ignoring the Sun in a climate model you are either going to look like an idiot or a liar. The Sun provides the Earth with all the heat it needs to produce a climate that supports life. Therefore in a climate model the Sun must not be ignored, and neither should its variable cycles, they are intrinsic.
But there is another intrinsic process effecting climate and of course temperature, which has also been completely ignored by these IPCC climate models. Coincidentally it is a process that when ignored, produces a result, which could be extremely desirable to anyone with a brief to try and show that certain gasses trap in heat, causing a greenhouse effect.
CONVECTION. Convection has been completely ignored by the IPCC climate models for many reasons but one of the most important and convenient reasons is that it enables the IPCC to alter reality and imply that CO2 traps heat and reflects it back down to Earth causing a greenhouse effect. When the reality is that ALL hot air rises, including CO2 (which is in contravention to a greenhouse effect). But because the IPCC simply ignore convection they can incorrectly infer that there is greenhouse effect because, this is exactly how a greenhouse works, by preventing convection.
Some say that the greenhouse effect is real because without it the Earth would be an ice planet. Well one of the answers to that is that if we had to rely on CO2 at 385 ppm to keep us warm then indeed Earth would be an ice planet, but it’s not an ice planet and CO2 alone can’t keep us warm so other gasses must play their part too. Water vapour and methane are supposed to be the other main culprits for causing warming. Water vapour is only 10,000 ppm of the atmosphere which is also not enough to keep the atmosphere warm and the methane content is so tiny its not worth talking about.
It is claimed that the science behind the greenhouse effect is a well established, undisputed and at least 150 years old. This is yet another false claim. The establishment of the greenhouse effect is attributed to John Tyndall, a professor of Natural Philosophy at the Royal Society (previously called the Hidden Collage) during the mid 1800’s. In his book “Contributions to Molecular Physics in the Domain of Radiant Heat” he implies that the atmosphere behaves like a dam to radiant heat, when in-fact, because of convection, nothing could be further from the truth. In the same book he also makes the peculiar statement that if a layer of olfiant gas two inches thick existed around the Earth it would radiate back 33% of the infrared heat escaping, causing the temperature of the Earth to become stifling. Again there seems to be a propensity to ignore convection even this far back. His book “Contributions to Molecular Physics” is very interesting for another reason. The purpose of the experimental studies was to examine individual atmospheric gasses to discover their ability to absorb radiant heat. In his results he continually ranked CO2 as a powerful absorber and water vapour even higher. In all his experiments water vapour was ranked the number one in terms of its ability to absorb radiant heat and appears to be the origin of the claim that water vapour is the strongest greenhouse gas. But when it came to Oxygen and Nitrogen he claimed that he witnessed no noticeable heat absorption abilities in either gas during his experiments. The implication being, that the effect they would have on atmospheric temperature would be negligible.
The very important question then arises, was John Tyndall trying to be deliberately misleading or was he genuinely unaware that Oxygen and Nitrogen have melting points of 54.36 K and 63.15 K respectively. Actually making these two gasses, which make up 99% of the atmosphere far more important in the domain of radiant heat than CO2 which remains as ice up to a temperature of 194.65 K or Water which is ice up to 273 K and are only 0.03811% and 1% of total atmospheric gasses respectively.
The slight of hand becomes obvious if you consider that Tyndall’s job here may have been to produce the effect of a reality reversal, by implying that gasses which are poor absorbers of heat, are actually powerful absorbers of heat and that these gasses may also posses the ability to form layers which can trap heat as with the imagined example of olfiant gas. The truth however, is that the gas which has the lowest melting point is by definition the greatest absorber of heat. In other words if Oxygen and Nitrogen were not able to absorb heat they would still be ice. These two gasses Oxygen and Nitrogen have the lowest melting points of all the important atmospheric gasses and at the same time are, in conjunction, the most abundant gasses at 990,000 ppm compared to CO2 which is a mere 385 ppm.
The truth is, that air is a very efficient absorber of heat but because it rapidly expands when warmed this makes it a poor conductor. But the atmosphere does not use conduction to transfer heat, though it does use convection, and very efficiently. As there is nothing preventing convection in the atmosphere like there would be in a greenhouse for example (glass), then there is nothing to trap the heat and so, it is rapidly re-emitted back into space. Hence the fact that the Earth has never over heated. So if you have a climate model which deliberately ignores convection as a factor, then that climate model is not worth the DELL its running on!
John Tydall is interesting for another reason. He had strong links with Sir Francis Galton and Thomas Henry Huxley who themselves are directly linked to social darwinism and the early Eugenics movement, which later spawned the Nazi movement. Even more importantly, the big money that brought us Adolf Hitler and funded his and many other pseudo science Eugenics programs, (Rothschild/Rockefella/Warburg et al.) is the same big money behind the Pseudo Environmentalism that is Anthropogenic Global Warming.
Be warned, history is repeating itself.
Don’t believe AGW is a fraud, Know it!
Get, CO2 The Debate Is not Over, free .pdf download and free subscription my CO2 Blog here.
http://www.spinonthat.com/CO2.html
November 17th, 2009 at 11:21 am
More BULLSHIT spam from an untrained, ill-informed “blogger.”