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Spotless days: 400 and counting
Wattsupwiththat
Thursday, Aug 14, 2008
As many of you know, the sun has been very quiet, especially in the last month. In a NASA news release article titled What’s Wrong with the Sun? (Nothing) solar physicist David Hathaway goes on record as saying:
“It does seem like it’s taking a long time,” allows Hathaway, “but I think we’re just forgetting how long a solar minimum can last.”
No argument there. But it does seem to me that the purpose of Hathaway’s July 11th article was to smooth over the missed solar forecasts he’s made. Here is a comparison of early and more recent forecasts from Hathway.
He also seems intent on making sure that when compared to a grand minima, such as the Maunder Minimum, this current spotless spell is a mere blip.
The quiet of 2008 is not the second coming of the Maunder Minimum, believes Hathaway. “We have already observed a few sunspots from the next solar cycle,” he says. (See Solar Cycle 24 Begins.) “This suggests the solar cycle is progressing normally.”
What’s next? Hathaway anticipates more spotless days1, maybe even hundreds, followed by a return to Solar Max conditions in the years around 2012.
(Article continues below)
I would hope that Hathaway’s newest prediction, that this is “not the
second coming of the Maunder Minimum” or even a Dalton Minimum for that matter, holds true.
1Another way to examine the length and depth of a solar minimum is by counting spotless days. A “spotless day” is a day with no sunspots. Spotless days never happen during Solar Max but they are the “meat and potatoes” of solar minima.
Adding up every daily blank sun for the past three years, we find that the current solar minimum has had 362 spotless days (as of June 30, 2008).Compare that value to the total spotless days of the previous ten solar minima: 309, 273, 272, 227, 446, 269, 568, 534, ~1019 and ~931. The current count of 362 spotless days is not even close to the longest.
Though, Livingston and Penn seem to think we are entering into a grand minima via their recent paper.
As mentioned in “What’s next?”, we are now adding to the total of spotless days in this minima, and since the last update in that article, June 30th, 2008 where they mention this, we have added very few days with sunspots, perhaps 3 or 4.
Adding up every daily blank sun for the past three years, we find that the current solar minimum has had 362 spotless days (as of June 30, 2008).
So it would seem, that as of August 12th, 2008, we would likely have reached a total of 400 spotless days. The next milestone for recent solar minimas is 446 spotless days, not far off. It will be interesting to see where this current minima ends up.
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32 Responses to “Spotless days: 400 and counting”
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August 14th, 2008 at 5:28 am
I believe some key people promoting global warming knew the truth right from the beginning – and that it’s the sun – they also know about the coming ice age, which will fit their malthusian agenda perfectly.
They know it’s gonna get cold soon – and with chemtrails – with a lot of chemtrails – the killing effect will be even greater.
Amon
August 14th, 2008 at 10:51 am
How do you suppose the globalists are doing this? I just don’t understand the theory that’s being proposed here.
August 14th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Chemtrails most likely are the main contributor to a phenomenon called global dimming. http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=462
This combined with what is said in the article at http://www.prisonplanet.com/de.....ment-20754 could mean even cooler temperatures than estimated.
Cooler temperatures mean less food, which again means compromised immunesystems for people that can’t get enough food and especially during winters.
In addition – chemtrails also contain chemicals that most likely compromise our immunesystems even further.
I can’t see no reason for chemtrails other than making sure that there’ll be less “useless eaters” in the near future – and meaning the next couple of decades.
August 14th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Wow something crazy could happen 2012, maybe it will sort out the nwo.
August 14th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Watch all 440 videos and you will know the absolute TRUTH!
http://hashemsfilms.com/index2.....&cid=1
August 14th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
you do not have to accept any of this-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V5iCUBEUx4
Just remeber who WE are and where WE came from-
God Bless
GS
August 15th, 2008 at 4:33 am
@Article
Yet more bullshit from the liars and deniers. There is NOTHING unusual about this solar minimum, and in fact the next solar cycle has already started.
Sunspots are NOT correlated with temperature as much as this guy wants you to believe. In fact, 1960 had MORE sunspots than at any other time since, and today is still warmer! In fact, 1998 was one of the hottest years on record yet sunspot numbers were barely higher than now, as the Sun was just entering solar cycle 23!
http://solarscience.msfc.nasa......yearly.jpg
Have a good long look at that graph. You will see for example that sunspot counts have been decreasing slightly over the last 50 years, and yet 1/3 of total Global Warming has happened since then.
But even if we did go into a minimum like the Maunder Minimum where there were practically no sunspots for 50 to 70 years, AND IF that cause the “Little Ice Age” (which wasn’t actually an Ice Age, it wasn’t cold enough for long enough) which has not been proven, the most cooling we could expect would be the same as that time period, about 0.4 to 0.9 Degrees Celsius, which would take us back to pre-industrial temperatures, not even a “Little Ice Age”!
On top of that, the sun would eventually return to normal, probably about the same length of time, and by then all the warming plus MORE, would hit us within a decade!
The reality is, the variation in solar output due to these cycles is less than 0.1% from high to low, and that is not enough to account for current warming, nor to stop further warming.
Don’t be fooled by these LIARS!
August 15th, 2008 at 6:12 am
Karmakaze – how can I be sure the graph there is based on real data?
August 15th, 2008 at 8:20 am
Watch Penn and Teller Bull@#^%! The end of the World. It will not end in 2012 nor even in 2400. That beyond our life time. Yes there will be war, but not nuclear. The elites will not allow that to happen. All governments are puppets and they want you to live in fear. They went to one fear to another fear. for example, In the 1950’s to 1990’s Nuclear annihilation. 1995 to 2001 Meteor Annihilation. 2001 to 2008, Terrorists attack. 2008 onward, Nuclear Annihilation. This fear factor is no longer working now in my life. I will not play their game. One last fear the elites have is Global Warming now rename Climate Change and it is cause by humans beings and they need a carbon tax! They can take the carbon tax and shove it! The End of the World is Bull@#%#!
August 15th, 2008 at 9:31 am
sunspot minimum until 2012…
as above so below! Things will be pretty dark for us mere humans aswell
August 15th, 2008 at 9:35 am
I posted this yesterday on another article. Below was posted on the WATTSUPWITHTHAT blog:
The AGW crowd would have us panic and take all sorts of drastic measures in the event that the planet is warming, but there’s been very little words of warning on what could turn out to be worse than warming.
The last time we had a solar minimum there were roughly five billion less people on the planet than now. Granted, we have had major improvements in agricultural production since then, but has anyone looked at whether we can support the present population under anything even approaching the conditions of the last minimum?
I am torn on the possibility that we’re entering a minimum, but shouldn’t the scenario at least be studied. After all, a decent size volcanic eruption could produce similar results.
This article was refered ( http://www.lavoisier.com.au/pa…..ch2008.pdf) as saying that this minimum could reduce growing seasons by two weeks on each end in North America, and then someone ran the numbers.
If I remember correctly, Archibald’s study was for the middle to northern parts of the country, so it might be safe to say the growing season, on average in the Northern Hemisphere will be decreased by four weeks. I’ve been an engineer for twenty years, so 4-H is a long time in the past, but let’s just assume that growing season length and crop yields are directly proportional after the plants get up enough to start producing. And again, let’s assume a twenty four week growing season. If we decrease that by 4 weeks, based upon our rough assumptions, we could be looking at a 15% reduction in crop yield. Even if I am wrong by a factor of 2 and we could quickly mobilize to double the amount of land in production, we’re looking at a potential 3.75% reduction in world wide food supplies.Am I the only one who sees the possibility of this as a cause of concern?
Could warming have been used to cover this up? NASA is still denying that we’re at a minimum.
August 16th, 2008 at 3:04 am
See the shocking material the NWO does not want exposed!
Go to links at;
http://www.thetruthportal.com
August 16th, 2008 at 4:14 am
@Ed Concern
“Karmakaze – how can I be sure the graph there is based on real data?”
Well, it comes from NASA who need to know this shit to keep their satellites etc from getting fried…
More importantly, where do you think that idiot at “Wattsupwiththat” gets his data? Unless you think he has his own solar observatory and satellites that is…
And more importantly STILL, why would you doubt NASA, but not some random bloke posting a blog on the Internet? Seriously, are you that stupid?
But then again, maybe NASA is in on the hoax, and maybe every other solar observatory and astrophysicist on the planet is in on the hoax, and all the climatologists, and all the physicists, and geophysicists and most of all the other scientists on the planet. Maybe the elites have paid them ALL off to fool us!
Or maybe, the handful of climatologists, the majority of which are in the direct or indirect employ of fossil fuel companies, and the few hundred other scientists and “scientists” (you know the guys like Lord Monckton who have never had ANY science education AT ALL, yet claim to be climatologists!) might be in on the REAL hoax? Maybe those few hundred in total world wide are the ones lying to you?
Maybe the REAL hoax is the claim that science itself can’t be trusted, and we should just listen to the people the elites have hired to tell us the “truth”?
For example, I bet you doubt that there is a Greenhouse Effect without having any idea that it was first discovered in the early 1800’s and that there is ZERO DOUBT, both because of empirical observations AND laboratory experiments, that it is REAL and CO2 is one of the causes? Why DON’T you know that? Simply because the media and the liars and deniers have done everything possible so that you do not know a single thing about the SCIENCE behind AGW.
None of this stuff is controversial at all. We KNOW CO2 is a Greenhouse Gas, and we KNOW that mankind has increased atmospheric CO2 by 25% in around 200 years, and we KNOW that nature itself has NEVER changed CO2 concentration that fast (in fact we have changed it 14,000 TIMES as fast as any known natural change), and we KNOW that CO2 has not been this high in over 650,000 years.
NONE OF THAT IS IN DOUBT!
The only part of this science that has any doubt at all attached to it, is how much is too much, and what EXACTLY will be the ultimate result.
Not long ago the liars and deniers were saying there was no such thing as global warming. Now they say “we never said there was no such thing as global warming, we just say WE aren’t causing it”. As the evidence piles up that we ARE, they are starting to change to a new tactic of claiming that it will be GOOD for us! Why do they need to keep changing their story? BECAUSE THEY ARE LYING!
They don’t care about the TRUTH, all they care about is making sure that WE don’t stop giving them TRILLIONS of dollars per year! ExxonMOBIL ALONE had revenue of $377.6 BILLION dollars in 2006, and that was when oil was $70 dollars a barrel, not $116 like it is now. That is a more than 60% increase in TWO YEARS. Do you think their costs have gone up 60% in two years? HELL NO!
Exxon just posted another RECORD three month profit of $11.68 BILLION dollars, but do you know what happened? Their share price went DOWN by 3% because their RECORD profit wasn’t as HIGH as Wall Street expected!
Do you REALLY think a Carbon Tax could replace that kind of income? HELL NO! The THREAT of a Carbon Tax is just their way of making sure that you start to question the SCIENCE, based on their BULLSHIT POLICY!
Think about it – if the elites REALLY wanted a Carbon Tax, and REALLY wanted you to believe in AGW, don’t you think that George Bush and Gordon Brown would be leading the charge? Of COURSE they would, but they aren’t!
—-
@Gary L Varnam
“One last fear the elites have is Global Warming now rename Climate Change and it is cause by humans beings and they need a carbon tax!”
Read what I said above, and tell me that the elites would prefer to give up TRILLIONS in profits, so they can create a Carbon Tax! If you STILL believe that, then you are HOPELESSLY RETARDED.
PS: Penn and Teller are libertarians – the people that believe Enron should have been unregulated because only a “free market” is fair! As far as those two clowns are concerned if YOU get ripped off, that is just proof that YOU don’t deserve your hard earned money, just like Ayn Rand said!
—-
@harry
“sunspot minimum until 2012…
as above so below! Things will be pretty dark for us mere humans aswell”
First of all, no sunspots means NO dark areas on the Sun! Secondly the minimum is already coming to an end – Solar Cycle 24 has already begun.
—-
@Val Wiggin
“The AGW crowd would have us panic and take all sorts of drastic measures in the event that the planet is warming, but there’s been very little words of warning on what could turn out to be worse than warming.”
The warming IS REAL, and even the liars and deniers don’t dispute that any more.
“The last time we had a solar minimum there were roughly five billion less people on the planet than now. Granted, we have had major improvements in agricultural production since then, but has anyone looked at whether we can support the present population under anything even approaching the conditions of the last minimum?”
Yep. In fact the last minimum happened over the last two years, and we have not had ANY problem… Unless you mean that special event the Maunder Minimum, in which case then, yep. We know that event resulted in no more than 0.4 to 0.9 Degrees Celsius cooling, which if it happened right now would barely take away the amount the world has warmed in the last 200 years.
No Ice Age, not even particularly cold. Basically, nothing. Stop listening to the liars and deniers. They are LYING to you.
“I am torn on the possibility that we’re entering a minimum, but shouldn’t the scenario at least be studied.”
It has been. Remember that 70’s media scare about entering a new Ice Age (the one the scientists didn’t actually support, but researched just in case)?
The fact is the Sun, even if it had no sunspots for a hundred years could not seriously cool the planet. The total change in solar output from LOTS of sunspots to NO sunspots is less than 0.1%, and by the time its effects would be felt, such a minimum would not even be able to reverse the warming we would have caused by then.
50 to 70 years of virtually no sunspots resulted in less than 1 Degree Celsius cooling. We have already hit 0.7 Degree Celsius warming! So at best a minimum will return us to normal for a century, and THEN we’ll be REALLY fucked when the Sun returns to normal.
“Am I the only one who sees the possibility of this as a cause of concern?”
Actually, the effects you are referring to would NOT reduce food production anywhere near as much as the amount of food that is thrown away or stockpiled each year to keep prices high.
Consider this link:
http://www.awb.com.au/NR/exere.....D0E092.htm
That is global wheat production statistics for several years. You will see that for each listed year total wheat production has been between 550 and 580 million tons, but at the end of each year, there has been between 35 and 53 million tons SURPLUS! That is approaching 10% at times!
The fact is we WASTE more food (thrown away uneaten) than a 10% reduction of food supplies would lose! So maybe for 50 to 100 years, we MIGHT have to not waste as much, but in general that would probably be GOOD for us!
“Could warming have been used to cover this up? NASA is still denying that we’re at a minimum.”
Are you kidding me? Did you even read the article? It quotes a NASA scientist saying we are in a minimum, but it is NOT UNUSUAL. In fact, if you go check out the NASA pages right now, you will see that the next Solar Cycle has already started!
By the way, the Livingston and Penn paper mentioned in the article? It was rejected at peer review by Science, and that rejection was accepted by the authors, because the evidence while interesting could NOT be said to indicate we are entering a grand minima! They simply got over excited about an area we know very little about, and stretched their evidence further than it could support. Why do people like this blogger ignore that fact? Because they are LYING to you!
August 16th, 2008 at 5:49 am
Karmakaze – I think some of your posts are ok, yet you seem to have an attitude problem of some sort. You’re not the only one here though – and there are cases a lot worse – but more on that – among other things – later, once I have better time. Now I’m off to the airport.
August 16th, 2008 at 6:30 am
@Ed Concern
“Karmakaze – I think some of your posts are ok”
I believe that’s called damning with faint praise… but thanks anyway
“yet you seem to have an attitude problem of some sort.”
Yes, I do have an attitude problem of some sort – it’s called hating retards who believe bullshit because some blog said it, but question the reality of scientific data from a globally respected organisation like NASA!
Maybe you aren’t one of those retards, and what you were really asking was for the source of the data, and maybe you missed the NASA URL the image came from, so maybe it’s all just a misunderstanding. Of course you also failed to question the source of the info in the article and instead chose to question me, so I’m picking that is NOT the case.
“You’re not the only one here though – and there are cases a lot worse – but more on that – among other things – later, once I have better time. Now I’m off to the airport.”
Enjoy your flight, unless you also question aerodynamicists and the science of heavier than air flight, that is! If that IS the case just remember that flapping your arms DOESN’T help.
August 16th, 2008 at 6:37 am
@tom
Hold your breath tom, don’t let them get you!!!
August 16th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Karmakaze – you’re free to question people’s intelligence – call them names and all that if you wish – but are you really sure it’ll make your arguments more convincing?
Anyhow – that’s what I meant with your “attitude problem” – the “gentle” art of making enemies and instead of friends, but hey, have it your way.
Now on your “answer” to my question – which by the way was “how I can I be sure the graph is based on real data” – you replied:
“Well, it comes from NASA who need to know this shit to keep their satellites etc from getting fried…”
Ok – tell me – how many satellites actually get “fried” due to sunspots?
Anyway – along the graph there was no name, reference to original source(s) or anything – nada – and I mean NASA was established in 1958 whereas the graph shows “averaged” (and whatever that means) sunspot numbers starting already from year 1600.
So, at least the pre-NASA data – 1600-1958 – has to be from somewhere other than NASA, not?
Note also that the graph shows SP-numbers up to the year 2000 only – yet it’s 2008 already and the temps have been going down ever since.
For all I know the graph could be created by a computer artist named Mr. Hansen – though maybe that’s exactly why there is no name there.
As for the global warming hoax – well, there are pretty good reasons to believe it’s possible, if not even likely. But more on this a bit later – I’ll have a list of studies and articles for you a.s.a.p.
Ps. ever heard of the “dihydrogen monoxide” hoax? Well, most people fall for it – and it’s a far more simple issue than the global warming one – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D.....oxide_hoax
and
http://vids.myspace.com/index......2028375596
August 16th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
@Ed Concern
“Karmakaze – you’re free to question people’s intelligence – call them names and all that if you wish – but are you really sure it’ll make your arguments more convincing?”
What makes you think I am trying to convince retards? I wouldn’t waste my time. I simply point out the retards so that intelligent but otherwise misinformed people can see them and not fall for their bullshit.
I also make fun of the retards because it amuses me. However, I am in NO WAY trying to convince THEM. They are too stupid to get it.
“Anyhow – that’s what I meant with your “attitude problem” – the “gentle” art of making enemies and instead of friends, but hey, have it your way.”
LOL You think I am even slightly concerned if RETARDS hate me? Hell, that is even MORE amusing! I am not trying to convince people of the truth of AGW – I leave that to the scientists. Picking holes in the arguments of retards – that is just an amusing past time.
“Ok – tell me – how many satellites actually get “fried” due to sunspots?”
None, but they have and do get fried by solar storms etc which means understanding the Sun (and therefore sunspots) is important to them.
“Anyway – along the graph there was no name, reference to original source(s) or anything – nada – and I mean NASA was established in 1958 whereas the graph shows “averaged” (and whatever that means) sunspot numbers starting already from year 1600.”
The URL was a NASA site. Unless you think I hacked NASA and uploaded a bullshit graph that is. Secondly, remember when I said understanding the Sun is very important to NASA? That doesn’t mean they only look at it now. What they do is use any source they can to understand past solar activity, such as old data from observatories. You point out 1600. Guess when the telescope was invented?
Averaged means that the number of sunspots graphed is an average of each year. The number of sunspots changes on a daily basis, so unless they plot every day for 400 years, they HAVE to average the daily numbers. Should be pretty obvious to anyone really thinking about it.
“So, at least the pre-NASA data – 1600-1958 – has to be from somewhere other than NASA, not?”
Why yes, as I explained. Of course most of the data NASA deals with is from pre-NASA days, unless you think the whole science of astrophysics etc was invented in only the last 50 years? That is what makes it nearly impossible that NASA has doctored the data – everyone else is working from the same data and would point it out, if they had.
“Note also that the graph shows SP-numbers up to the year 2000 only – yet it’s 2008 already and the temps have been going down ever since.”
Why yes, you are right. But if you go to the NASA site, you can easily find a precise graph of Solar Cycle 23 (which began in 1998). I was not making any claims regarding post 2000, so no need to get the newer data.
Also, temperatures have NOT been going down! The last thirteen years have had 12 of the 13 hottest years on record. Stop believing the liars and deniers – they LIE!
“For all I know the graph could be created by a computer artist named Mr. Hansen – though maybe that’s exactly why there is no name there.”
And it would still be a hundred times more correct than any bullshit you have ever posted. But if you want I will go find the graphs from the other solar observatories etc. They all show the same thing, so it doesn’t bother me.
http://sidc.oma.be/html/wolfaml.html
This shows the more recent data as well.
That is from:
“The SIDC is the solar physics research department of the Royal Observatory of Belgium.
Its operational activities include the World Data Center for the sunspot index and the Regional Warning Center Belgium for space weather forecasting.”
So are the Belgians being manipulated by Hansen too? How many MORE are in on the “hoax”?
“As for the global warming hoax – well, there are pretty good reasons to believe it’s possible, if not even likely. But more on this a bit later – I’ll have a list of studies and articles for you a.s.a.p.”
What, that tens of thousands of scientists all around the world are participating in a grand scheme to create a Carbon Tax? Of course the elites couldn’t just MAKE the Carbon Tax without all the bother, because well, that would be no fun!
Oh, I must not forget the handful of climatologists and non-scientists etc that are trying to tell us the “truth”, after all, even though the oil companies who fund them stand to lose billions if not trillions, they wouldn’t try to LIE to us…
“Ps. ever heard of the “dihydrogen monoxide” hoax? Well, most people fall for it – and it’s a far more simple issue than the global warming one – see”
Bollocks – most IGNORANT people fell for it. Did you? I know I didn’t.
August 17th, 2008 at 1:11 am
KAMIkaze with a very bad karma wrote: “What makes you think I am trying to convince retards?” and so forth.
Well, I guess we’re pretty much done here then, eh?
No need for me to feed an al-gore jugend who’s on a virtual kamikaze mission – besides – you’ll run out of fuel soon anyway.
Have a nice flight “with the winds”.
Ed
Ps. “Carbon credits could become the world’s biggest traded commodity within the next decade, according to the head of the US Commodities Futures Trading Commission” @
http://www.businessgreen.com/b.....ate-global
“Al Gore’s Conflict of Interest with ‘Global Warming’” – quote from http://www.german-university.org/
“Albert Gore is since 2001 Hedge Fond Manager of ‘Metropolitan West Financial LLC’ (metwest) — together with the prosecuted insider trader Michael Milken and David Blood from Goldman Sachs Asset Management at the ‘Generation Investment Fund’ in London. They all sell and profit from the sale of ‘CO2 Emission Certificates’ and ‘Global Warming’. Now you may wonder WHY Al Gore & friends make so much noise about ‘Global Warming’ . . . because they PROFIT from non-existing ‘Global Warming’.
And there are other ‘Global Warming’ promotion, lobbying and profiteering groups in Washington, D.C., like the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) (Lee Raymond, Vice Chairman of the Board of Directors of AEI, was former CEO of ExxonMobil), who received $1.6 million from ExxonMobil (CEO Rex Tillerson), and the so-called ‘United States Climate Action Partnership’ (US-CAP), which all use lies, fearmongering and scapegoating as fundraising drives and big check investments for their self-serving rackets. US-CAP is just an empty front without any staff – set up by the ‘Meridian Institute’ at 1920 L Street, NW, in Washington, D.C.”
August 17th, 2008 at 9:40 am
“KAMIkaze” with the bad karma – Al Gore is no “plan B” – he is part of the Grand Plan. See “The First Global Revolution – Green Agenda” at http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=464 for it’s a network of people and organizations.
Now, I assume you didn’t read any of those articles I listed previously – which means we really can’t even get on the same wavelenght on this one. Then again – who cares, for you’re just “amusing” yourself here, right?
You: “Why, have you decide to self-identify as a retard?”
If you carefully read what you’ve written here so far, you’ll notice that you have a tendency to label people who disagree with you as stupid and/or retard etc. – and basically just because they disagree with you. This is pretty odd, I think, considering the fact that most of us here – you included – are here anonomously.
You:”You see, I am intelligent enough to understand that AGW can be real AND their plan for a Carbon Tax can be bullshit. It’s not either/or, it’s both!”
Funny – I see it as being “both” as well – that is, both carbon tax and AGW are bullshit – and if you’d read those articles I listed earlier, you might at least have an idea why it is that I’ve come to this conclusion.
And mind you, BTW – I was a green party activist for 5 years here in Finland – but it wasn’t until Al Gore’s inconvenient propaganda film that I decided to research the issue myself and make my own conclusions – and only to find out that it’s a fraud.
You: “Are you seriously trying to tell me AEI is pro-AGW?”
If you read it again – and carefully – you’ll notice that it was someone else saying that, not me. See, I just read stuff and try to make my own conclusions.
You: “Even if you don’t believe in AGW, surely you can see that such a system would have INCREDIBLY GOOD effects for ALL the world’s people? Wouldn’t YOU like to stop paying so much of your money to the fossil fuel companies?”
First of all – C02 is not a problem – it’s not even a pollutant!
Secondly – here where I live, more than 75% of the fuel price goes to the state in forms of taxes – and it’s not the price which is the problem, but the global oil-cartel oligarchs looting the oil-producing nations.
And just for the record – I have nothing against solar-energy – yet that’s not the issue here. The issues here are 1) are we experiencing unusual global warming or not – 2) is C02 causing global warming or not and – 3) is it by any chance anthropogenic.
I happen to believe – after 9 months of research – that CO2 does not cause global warming and that it’s the sun that drives the climate – and both ways naturally – everything else follows.
To me AGW is yet another tool for the elite to try to control the people – yet this time on a global scale.
August 17th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
ED Concern..save your breath mate Kamakase is sooo Blinkered and BRAINWASHED in his EVANGELISTIC PSUEDO RELIGIOUS GLOBAL WARMING SCAM
That anybody who happens to disagree with the PRATT is labelled RETARD or LIAR AND DENIAR..THE ONLY ONE ON THIS SITE WHO IS A RETARD
IS KAMAKASE FOR NOT HAVING A OPEN MIND AND ONLY BELIEVING THE BULLSHIT BEING PEDDLED BY THE “YOGHURT KNITTING,BEDWETTING,SANDALWEARING,LIBERAL,TREE HUGGING,LENTILL MUNCHING,MOTHERCARE ECO-WARRIORS…enviro”MENTAL”lists
August 17th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
KAMIkaze with that karma: “Someone suggested I post there, and when I tried to sign up “Sorry you have been banned…””
Now I really wonder why that is… hell, you are not only dumb, but dumber too. In fact – to me you’re just another Asshole Anonomys talking about “science” as if you even knew something about it.
Tell me how many scientific studies have you conducted yourself?
Got thru highschool yet? Still a virgin? And I mean, if this is your favourite past time hobby, then you are not just dumber than I thought, but clearly the dumbest of all here. And no, I don’t feel sorry for you – with that karma you actually deserve the social life that you’re NOT having. I bet you’re banned from your own home too, you homeless motherfucker.
Now about that “science” of yours – and though you’d make one science case yourself – do you seriously think that science is in some way objective, or is it possible that it’s more subjective no matter how good the scientists are? And no, this is not a rhetorical question – see, if you had even one brain cell left from breathing in too much antropogenic C02, you’d understand the question fairly well.
Ever thought of the fact that science is in fact an extension of politics and that you just can’t get the two separated in most cases?
Scientist are not independent – and some are even politically motivated – especially the one’s who were behind the IPCC. But hey, that just politics, so you refuse to talk about it, eh?
Anyway – these people are trying to justify their politics with science – yet even people who once were in the IPCC have started to doubt the whole shit – but “thank god” Hansen & friends still have dedicated, conditioned, brainwashed AGW-warriors like you to keep up the “good science”.
Now, if this was the 1930’s and the golden age of “scientific” eugenics, I bet you’d be one dedicated supporter of eugenics too. See the “science” was settled then too – and it wasn’t questioned until the war was over.
Anyway – you can go on with your pretty miserable social life and amuse yourself here, and if that really makes your life worth living. Frankly, I don’t give a fuck about you and your “science”.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:44 am
@Ed Concern
What’s the matter Ed? Can’t produce any evidence? Have to resort to stupid “insults” like “Still a virgin?” Grow up you dickhead.
“I bet you’re banned from your own home too, you homeless motherfucker.”
AHAHAHAH Poor Ed, he can’t win an argument and has to throw a tantrum! Aw diddums, did the big bad man call you a retard? Don’t worry little Ed, one day you’ll grow up and you’ll show ‘em all!
“Now about that “science” of yours – and though you’d make one science case yourself – do you seriously think that science is in some way objective, or is it possible that it’s more subjective no matter how good the scientists are?”
AHAHAHAH see, THAT is why I call you a retard. I challenge you to debate the science, so what do you do, you start whining about science itself! That computer you’re using Ed? Take a sledgehammer to it. It’s THE DEVIL!
To answer your question, of course science is in some part subjective, because scientists are human. That is why there are guidelines and procedures that are used to ensure human bias doesn’t affect the quality of the science. Things like peer review for example, where other scientists in the same field (many who have their own axe to grind) subject papers to criticism in an attempt to expose any flaws or bias.
Notice how many long standing “deniers” were included in the IPCC process. They were there to keep it honest, and they did.
“And no, this is not a rhetorical question – see, if you had even one brain cell left from breathing in too much antropogenic C02, you’d understand the question fairly well.”
I understand it totally. It’s the old “they’re all biased and so the science is bullshit” argument that people who HAVEN’T got the evidence resort to. Seen it dozens of times here.
“Ever thought of the fact that science is in fact an extension of politics and that you just can’t get the two separated in most cases?”
BULLSHIT. Science happens regardless of what ever political axe YOU have to grind. That is why the science behind AGW has gotten stronger and stronger and more and more undeniable as time has gone on, even though the leaders of nations such as the US have fought it every step of the way. Bush even FIRED scientists for refusing to ignore the evidence and replaced them with lackeys, and all that accomplished was having the US be left behind in many fields, for example stem cell research.
“Scientist are not independent – and some are even politically motivated – especially the one’s who were behind the IPCC. But hey, that just politics, so you refuse to talk about it, eh?”
Actually, many of the world’s climatologists totally agree. They say that POLITICS ensured that the IPCC report was as watered down as possible, inserting “uncertainty” where there was none, and always choosing the least “alarmist” viewpoint.
Doesn’t change the fact that the SCIENCE is good. The IPCC was nothing but a political panel designed to collate the work of tens of thousands of the world’s scientists. It did NO research itself. NONE of the science behind AGW was done by the IPCC. So no matter what your beef with the IPCC, it doesn’t change the fact that AGW is real and potentially devastating.
“Now, if this was the 1930’s and the golden age of “scientific” eugenics, I bet you’d be one dedicated supporter of eugenics too. See the “science” was settled then too – and it wasn’t questioned until the war was over.”
Actually, no. Simply because Eugenics wasn’t SCIENCE it was social philosophy that used scientific arguments to push it’s agenda.
The science misused by Eugenics advocates is STILL being used to make GOOD decisions such as in health care. Screening for genetic disorders and using that to sterilise people is Eugenics, but using it to prevent or treat illness is good health care!
My point is, science itself is not political. What you USE it for is political.
“Anyway – you can go on with your pretty miserable social life and amuse yourself here, and if that really makes your life worth living. Frankly, I don’t give a fuck about you and your “science”.”
AHAHAH coward! I put a simple challenge to you – describe what the scientists say the Greenhouse Effect is, and how it works, and instead you start moaning about how bad science is! Can’t you even do that one simple thing?
You expect me to take anything you say seriously, and you can’t even read a Wikipedia page and report your findings? Or did you in fact go and look, only to find that what it is, is NOT what you THOUGHT it was, and admitting that would have shot your own argument down?
You claim you spent nine months researching Global Warming and came to the conclusion it was a fraud. I said you must have had some scientific basis for disagreeing with the science and asked you to present some of THAT information, and all I get is a tantrum about how science is biased!
YOU ARE A RETARD! Thanks for playing, fool!
August 18th, 2008 at 5:24 am
Hey fuck face – let me quote you: “I am in NO WAY trying to convince YOU. YOU are too stupid to get it… I leave that to the scientists.”
Now, the articles I listed are refering to loads of scientific, peer-reviewed studies made by scientists + most of those articles were written by scientists as well. So, if you have a problem with that, well that’s your problem then, not mine.
To me you’re still just an Anonomys Asshole with the shittiest karma and with no authority what so ever.
“CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal Of Our Time by Zbigniew” Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc.
http://www.21stcenturysciencet…..candal.pdf
“Solar Cycles, Not CO2, Determine Climate by Zbigniew Jaworowski” M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc.
http://www.21stcenturysciencet…..arming.pdf
“Russians: Warm causes CO2, not vice versa”
http://blogs.news.com.au/heral.....ice_versa/
And now, fuck you very much as well.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:48 am
One more thing about the IPCC being “nothing but a political panel designed to collate the work of tens of thousands of the world’s scientists.”
You might want to – though I know you won’t – read more about that here:
http://scienceandpublicpolicy......9-5-07.pdf
August 18th, 2008 at 8:52 am
Those links didn’t seem to work – so, let’s try it again…
“CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal Of Our Time by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc.” at
http://www.21stcenturysciencet.....candal.pdf
“Solar Cycles, Not CO2, Determine Climate by Zbigniew Jaworowski M.D., Ph.D., D.Sc.” at
http://www.21stcenturysciencet.....arming.pdf
August 18th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
ED Concern..Told you mate!!the guy is a absolute MORON..I’ve given up Arguing with the PRATT AND WILL NOW ONLY TAKE THE “PISS OUT OF HIM”….He comes over as sad sad sad old man stuck to his keyboard
looking up BULLSHIT mostly on Wikipedia..the Man(if you can call him that)wants to get out more and get a life
August 18th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Hey …Out There – I was just practicing my English grammar there a bit – especially the insult-tense which you don’t really learn in the schools here…
August 19th, 2008 at 3:57 am
Ed Concern..You are doing fine mate…like I keep telling that sad sad KamaSHITFACEkase some of us work for a living which HE runs shy of
thats why he as all this time on his hands to spend hours and hours trawling through the Internet for useless INFORMATION
The rest of us have the Common Sense to know we are being SOLD by the SNAKE OIL SALESMEN OF enviroMENTALists and their ilk..a ONE LEGGED DONKEY IN A ARSE KICKING CONTEST
August 19th, 2008 at 6:24 am
“KamaSHITFACEkase” – I love this language LOL
August 19th, 2008 at 6:42 am
@Ed Concern
“Hey …Out There – I was just practicing my English grammar there a bit – especially the insult-tense which you don’t really learn in the schools here…”
Well shit Ed, you’ve got a LONG way to go, you anally retentive, syphilitic, cock smoker!
By the way, if you think insults bother me, they don’t. In fact the more retards like you resort to insulting me, the more I know I’m getting to you, which as I have said before is my main reason for being here. I consider that last post of yours to be Bronze medal worthy, but I am going for Gold! Hell, if you and TTIOT get together (which wouldn’t surprise me as you are BOTH cock smokers!) I could be in for a world record run!
Oh and well done doing what all the other retards do – as soon as I crush your “evidence” with the weight of my intellect and a few well placed FACTS, you go into full retreat, no longer even attempting to debate me. Hell, the Georgians didn’t run as fast or whine as loud! Bravo!
So, arse licker, bring on the insults!
—-
@The Truth Is Out There
“Ed Concern..You are doing fine mate…”
So says the retard who can barely SPELL English!
“like I keep telling that sad sad KamaSHITFACEkase some of us work for a living which HE runs shy of”
You’re right TTIOT, you caught me! I don’t work for a living. I pay others to make my money for me
I would offer you a job, but I don’t hire retards. Sorry, house rules. I’m sure you’ll be happy at McDonald’s though. I hear that eventually you get to suck the manager’s dick AND flip burgers! Won’t that be a bonus for you!
“thats why he as all this time on his hands to spend hours and hours trawling through the Internet for useless INFORMATION”
Not like you eh, TTIOT! You don’t need no stinkin’ information, you just make shit up and go with that! That’s why you work at McDonald’s. You don’t need an education to flip burgers, do you? Unless you call “Sucking the manager’s cock – 101″ an education, that is.
“The rest of us have the Common Sense”
Ah, that great cop-out of the terminally ignorant: “I don’t need knowledge, I have common sense!” ™.
Yes, TTIOT, I am sure you don’t need anything but common sense, after all flipping burgers is fairly simple – don’t touch the hot thing, put the flat flippy thing under the meat, flip. Yep, I’m sure you can handle that.
“a ONE LEGGED DONKEY IN A ARSE KICKING CONTEST”
Two tips for you TTIOT. The saying is “a one legged man in an arse kicking contest”.
Secondly, in the English language “arse” is preceded by “an”, not “a”. A simple rule of thumb is if the initial letter is a vowel, you use “an”, and if it is a consonant, you use “a” (I won’t confuse you with the exceptions).
A couple of examples:
TTIOT is AN ignoramus.
TTIOT is A retard.
See how that works? Stick with me TTIOT and I’ll have you on the front counter in no time! Hell, McDonald’s might even make you a duty manager!
August 19th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Kamakase…whose MUMMY wont let him play RUGBY no wonder your NEW ZEALAND compatriots think you are nothing but a scissy and MUMMY’S BOY…and sorry mate you are telling more PORKIES you dont work you not even a boss just a scrounger on the “OLD KING COLE”
I probably earn more money in a day than you do in a week ..As I’m a
qualified Engineer
You seem to have an unhealthy fetish about McDonalds you sure you dont work there also you ought to come out of the Closet GAYMAN as you realy have an unhealthy thing about Sucking cocks