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The Insanity of “Universal” Medical Care
William Anderson
Campaign For Liberty
Wednesday, July 29, 2009
Albert Einstein supposedly defined insanity as “doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” Indeed, if Einstein was correct, then the U.S. Government is about to embark on a course of insane medical care in the name of “social justice,” “morality,” and “fairness.”
As one who believes that insanity should not be equated with “social justice,” I would like to place myself firmly on the side that believes that we need less government control of medical care, not more. Unfortunately, we have a lot of people, including individuals masquerading as “economists” that are claiming that government control of medical care will result not only in more access to care, but also will create a greater supply of it.
One of the most vocal advocates for “universal” care has been Paul Krugman, the 2008 Nobel Prize winner in economics who has a twice-weekly column in the New York Times. Krugman, who teaches economics at Princeton University, claims that government care actually will increase the availability of medical care, making it less costly and higher-quality. He recently laid out how that would be done:
“Reform, if it happens, will rest on four main pillars: regulation, mandates, subsidies and competition.”
He goes on to explain what he means by each. Regulation would be a set of rules forbidding private insurers from denying coverage due to an individual’s health conditions. (It would be like ordering State Farm to insure you upon request, even if you had a dozen traffic accidents on your record.)
Mandates would involve a requirement that everyone purchase insurance. Those who could not afford the rates would receive subsidies from the government paid by individual taxes and heavy new business levies.
Competition would be the creation of a new government “insurance” plan to “compete” with private insurers, something that Krugman claims “would help hold down costs.” The idea would be that this new “plan” would provide a benchmark of service that would “encourage” the insurers to be more generous.
As one who has studied other “universal” medical policies in other countries, I have a different set of descriptive terms for the program that Krugman outlines: command, control, coercion and contraction. In fact, what I have listed is the hallmark of “universal care” elsewhere, and the idea that the American political classes can create a similar “plan” and avoid the pitfalls that plague those systems simply is insane, if we use Einstein’s definition.
I shall explain each of my points:
* Command: Government mandates are commands from above, usually enforced by the criminal code. Thus, we will have the situation in which government will be ordering plans not only to accept whoever applies, but also to include coverage for things that currently are not covered in private plans. Obviously, this is a prescription for bankrupting these plans, which I believe is one of the goals of those who would implement these policies. It is obvious that whole new bureaucracies would be created to enforce these policies, and insurers and medical professionals would be forced to come up with whole new series of documents to satisfy the horde of bureaucrats that would descend upon them (on top of the horde of bureaucrats that already are “regulating” the system).
* Control: Once government has managed to force insurers and medical professionals to adopt policies favorable to the political classes — under threat of criminal prosecution — then the government essentially has control of the system. Although Ted Kennedy in his recent Newsweek essay claimed that this program would not be “socialism,” indeed, that is exactly what it would be. We also can be assured that once this system is implemented, any private exchange at all would be criminalized, just as it has been in other countries with “universal” care.
* Coercion: In a free market, medical care is built upon a need followed by voluntary exchange between the person needing care and the medical professional. In this Brave New World, however, voluntary exchange would be out, and coercion would rule the system. Not only would individuals and businesses be forced to pay for something they rather would not do, but they would face fines and possible prison sentences if they refused or tried to “game the system,” as Krugman likes to claim.
* Contraction: This is the final but inevitable step in government program like this. The idea that this “plan” would result in greater availability of medical care is ludicrous. If that were so, Americans would be crossing the border to Canada for their medical care, not the opposite, as what is currently happening. As the hand of regulation becomes tighter and harder-fisted, medical professionals will drop out of the system altogether, and the capital that has given us the miracle of modern healthcare would deteriorate and ultimately fall into disuse.
For example, Montreal, a city of more than three million people, has only three MRI devices, while Allegany County, Maryland, which has about 80,000 residents, also has three MRIs. The reason for the disparity is simple: an MRI in Allegany County is capital for which the use provides an income for its owners, and doctors like to use it because it provides a relatively-inexpensive way to do exploratory surgery without having to do anything to the patient.
In Montreal, however, because all medical services are “free,” an MRI is not an asset but a liability, an expense for which there is no compensation given to its owners. Thus, if one lives in Cumberland or Frostburg and needs an MRI exam, one is available within a day, while in Montreal and other parts of Canada, one waits six months or longer.
As John Stossel recently has pointed out, the “contraction” of the system means that people wait and wait for simple care because no legal alternatives are available to them. No doubt, when the lines begin to grow long — and they certainly will if this “new” system is imposed — Americans will be told that the wait is because of “incompetent and greedy doctors” or something else that is untrue.
There also will be another development, one that will have even more impact on American freedoms (which are dwindling by the day). For-fee medical care will be made available in places like India and Latin America, where trained professionals already reside and where new investment into medical capital will be poured, and many Americans will take advantage of it. When that happens — and it surely will — there will be an outcry led by the political classes and the statist media against “medical tourism,” and laws will be passed criminalizing leaving the USA for any medical care that allegedly is available here. Thus, the government effectively will build its own “Medical Iron Curtain.
Americans do not need to destroy their healthcare system in order to “save” it. There is another path we can take, one in which we restore the free market and get the government out of the healthcare business altogether. Soon enough, this system would be the envy of the world, but it seems that the envy of the political classes is such that free markets in medical care are not in the political cards.
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July 29th, 2009 at 5:27 am
I’m from the UK, and we have the NHS. Now I’m all for smaller government here too, but the NHS needs to stay. Government should be able to protect its citizens, and this includes protection against health problems, whether minor or major.
I look across the pond and see the insurance system as highly flawed in general. That’s not to say that there shouldn’t be private health care though… if you have the money to pay for that, and you want to, then thats freedom of choice and you should go for it.
All I know is, when my father was close to death a few years ago, the NHS saved his life, using treatments that cost upwards of £200,000 overall, something we couldn’t afford in a million years, but was provided by the state and the NHS…
Matzo Man Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 9:59 am
He could have probably afforded catastrophic health insurance and would have made more money by not having a NHS burden, which has got to be significant, maybe more than his premiums. And the government has no reason to spend money wisely; they can’t go out of business so they can do whatever they want!
Rob Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 10:04 am
“Those that would give up a little liberty for safety, have nor deserve either” – Benjamin Franklin
Government is to protect liberty and freedom. Not safety and security that’s your responsibility and my responsibility and no government has a right to take my ability to take care of myself from me.
boogereater Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 10:11 am
First off you misquote Ben, and second…safety and security are a part of liberty and freedom…and third…you sound like an uninformed dumbass
Duh Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Rob, congratulations!! That has got to be the stupidest thing I have heard in a long time.
Michael Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 4:28 am
Rob, in an ethical society when somone is sick you help them, we can’t throw them on the sidewalk because they can’t afford to pay for it. Sick – help. What the government should do is ensure people are not taken advantage of by large companies selling people foods and drinks with so many chemicals in them who knows what effect they may have on us to reduce alot of the health problems seems might be associated by these things.
Some might say, ‘its their fault for not taking better care of themselves’, even if it is a few people’s fault, other than maybe a handful who is completely, innocent. And without compassion what kind of society would we be.
LukeLuke Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 3:12 am
Another point, I watched a piece on BBC24 that showed a British Dentist who had bought a small plane and was flying around the USA providing oral care to Americans that could not afford Dental procedures.
Threre were hundreds queueing up for help.
To me that just did not seem right in what is in the rest of the Worlds opinion is the greatest country that sits upon this beautiful planet.
wildcat Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 6:15 am
Rural areas in the USA, Canada and UK have a problem attracting qualified dentists and doctors – there is not enough of a population to pay for all the training and equipment that a modern dental practise would require.
The only way to resolve this was to pay extra high wages for a short term contract with a guaranteed city job later on.
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 8:07 am
@Wildcat
Yes, most of the best and brightest Canadian Doctors left to go get rich under the American HMO system.
Add in that it also has to deal with a sparse population density – being the second largest landmass in the world with the population of the state of California – and it’s understandable why Canada is experiencing problems maintaining a full standard of care.
Less doctors, more patients and a system in dire need of maintenance from a government that wants to see it all die and become ‘American’.
Yeah, there is no perfect solution – but it’s better than what the HMOs offer, hands down.
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 7:39 am
You have no idea what you’re talking about.
At all.
Stop listening to the Republican screed. Not everything is a f---ing conspiracy.
HMOs have been saving up for this day ever since they killed Clinton’s attempt at healthcare reform – buying out Repubs and Dems just in case this ever happened again.
You want to talk conspiracy, look at how many in congress are bought and paid for by the same HMOs that they’re defending.
Now they’re saying that Socialized medicine will kill Old people. Great. More fear mongering from the Fear party – again, masquerading as ‘truth’.
Also, this article has no factual basis (granted, its an editorial, it doesn’t have to) but it’s just another tool to misinform.
Socialized medicine does have it’s issues – but these are the things that the supposed greatest country in the world can look at and address before making it their own.
None of this would be a problem, of course, if it was the Middle Class that were paying for this like everything else. However, because the rich are being asked to shoulder the burden and help contribute to the running of the country now it’s a national scandal.
And while they turn their noses up at the American public, they continue to do everything in their power — tax loopholes, offshore accounts, etc. — to avoid putting money back into the country that allowed for them to be rich in the first place.
I think you need to re-check your facts, take your uninformed passion down a notch and look at things from a different perspective. Because blindly following the Republican BS line is doing you absolutely No favors.
Be Well, Be Informed and please, do honest, factual research.
Ask hard questions of both sides.
Cheers,
DD
LukeLuke Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 3:06 am
U.K od is correct in my opinion. I to live in the U.K and our NHS is one form of Collectivism that works. We all pay out of our paychecks and do get the care that is needed at whatever time in our lives we may need it. Agreed there is a strong case to say we should have a choice in whether we contribute or not. Yet it does work and the people who work in it are dedicated to helping the sick.
We do have a phenomenon of Holiday health tourists though who know they need urgent surgery and just happen to arrive here from the third world. They get the urgent Surgery then go home again at our expense.
Margaret Thatcher was a social Darwinist and even she did not attempt to reform of end our Healh service. Some accountability would be nice though as there becomes more managers and advisers than feet on the ground.
July 29th, 2009 at 6:26 am
You couldn’t afford it because of regulation. If the govt was out of health care there would be competition for your business just like every other profession and THAT would bring the price down and eventually save someone else’s father’s life. The fact that it costs so much is their way of making sure you stay dependent on them.
No one is responsible for you but you. Not the govt!
Rebekah Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 7:27 am
YEP, YEP, and a GREAT BIG YEP !
WE need to turn BACK the clock to a time of FREE ENTERPRISE, FREE MARKET and INDEPENDENCE with very LITTLE GOVERNMENT and CHARITY WHEN NEEDED !
I’ll ride a horse if I NEED TOO???? ALL THIS REGULATED GOVERNMENTAL IMPRISONMENT is BULLSH*T and I FOR ONE AM SICKENED BY IT !
bojinka plotter Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 9:07 am
what about catastrophic coverages and toothaches? you can’t have people passing out from the pain and crying in the streets.
jonas salk Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
the amount of lies being put out regarding healthcare in america is astounding. unfortunatly the young in america are completely fooled by the false arguements
you better get healthy because you wont be able to get treatment when you are sick
you also better get ready for massive tax increases and extreme inflation when this dogs---
hits the fan
July 29th, 2009 at 6:27 am
I’m Canadian and I cannot imagine getting screwed by insurance companies over healthcare too. Paying for healthcare is charging a person in a state of vulnerability and weakness that blatantly says, “we have nothing in common except perhaps the illusion of solidarity”, and, “I couldn’t give a f--- about you or your family”. “Cash or credit”? “Next!” We have come a long way from communal barn raisings etc. From where I am sitting nothing exposes the hypocrisy of ‘democracy’ like the american healthcare system. Charging people cause they are sick, is, sick. Wage slavery at its finest. Adam Smith, in the wealth of nations, the capitalist bible, says that having a wage slave is superior to having a slave, because if they get sick and die you can replace them with no loss of investment by the owner.
In Canada, however, our once proud system is currently under covert assault. The government is creating a crisis in healthcare by decreasing services, while the population continues to grow. Soon, they will be able to say, “See, it doesn’t work!” And, their friends will be able to cash in on a last remnant of new deal style infrastructure, which past smarter generations worked so hard to acquire. Going to an emergency room will have you waiting for close to ten hours now here, for what often is a five minute visit with a g.p. Does this mean that the canadian system doesn’t work? No. It means, “what works” is defined and orchestrated by the people who are in the positions of power to make it work or flop, which accords with their private interests. America is much more religious than canada, for the most part, and europe, and yet, “loving the neighbour” there is just a slogan for thomas kinkade resin products, and slave morality, it would seem. Sorry, not hating on america. I believe the american ideal and the french revolution are the pinnacle achievements thus far of humankind, but, I am also aware that the city in speech is different than the city in actuality. As the Fed demonstrates, there is no such thing as a ‘free market’. We westerners need to be vigilante in guarding our laws and exposing our institutions to the light of day, otherwise, the small gap between representational democracy and fascism will have been crossed, sure it already has, but for now we at least have the protection of the performance of outward appearances. Anyway, in a nutshell, I don’t see how a true democrat, not the political party variety, but a patriot, by definition one who wants the best for the people, would think healthcare should be private expense. Don’t be such a f---ing heartless pennypincher, some things we should help each other out with.
Duh Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 10:36 am
DonkeyRider, i am a Canadian currently in the USA and let me say this, its unbelievable the propaganda they are spewing to the americans here about canadian health care. I have seen a few commercials that have made my jaw drop. And the sad thing is most americans think this to be true.
This whole country needs to go back to the stone age and start again from the ground up.
Don't chemtrail me bro Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 11:34 am
You raise some good points. The bottom line with me as an American is that when it comes to the Healthcare system of a people, no way that it should be a for-profit sysem. That is immoral. It should not be tolerated, it is a comple abomination. A for profit healthcare system is looking to find ways NOT to help. I hope you guys up north can find a way to keep your system intact while it is under assault from the same kind of predatory forces that rule our system.
DaMartyr Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Remove all profit incentive so quality is decreased? Why would a bright mind go into medicine and get drenched in tuition debt just to go to a low paying job due to profit caps? That would create less competition, longer lines, and more incompetent doctors.
DonkeyRider Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
You make it sound like he or she is gonna work at mcdonald’s… hardly the case… wouldn’t say canadian doctors are hurting financially. We have our share of sociopathic doctors chasing bills too… wouldn’t want to be their patient. Give me the guy or gal who actually cares any day, even if their I.Q. is 140 versus 144… I think they might be more attentive to my recovery and a better md. Less competition? Healthcare is government run. Longer lines… you got me there… but for reasons outlined above. Btw, what kind of lines are there for those who can’t afford health insurance there? f--- my neighbour. Incompetent doctors… Canadian mds are second to none. If I were you, I’d be more concerned about Pharma titans and their “profit first” interests dictating research progress and products. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Swine flu vacine anyone???
Alex DeLarge Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Good post D.R. and you too chemtrail.
It’s funny how there is always unlimited funds for illegitimate wars like Afghanistan and Iraq. There was $24 trillion available to bail out crooked bankers and fraud artists, but when it comes to decent healthcare for all citizens, it’s always “nope, sorry, the cupboard is bare.”
The U.S. corporate health care system has devolved into a eugenicist, wealth concentration machine. The system spends tons of money on huge corporate salaries and bonuses, dividends for shareholders, advertising, lobbying and bribery. Every dollar spent on these things is a dollar NOT spent on healthcare, which is supposed to be the whole point. The only way a corporation like this makes money is by denying people care. It’s really that simple and it’s dead wrong in my opinion.
July 29th, 2009 at 6:40 am
Actually private care is not accessible for serious problems you have to use the NHS as I found out when my lung collapsed.
Even though I had life insurance I could only be treated by the NHS as the private hospitals only deal with non life threatening cases.
As a result I had to stay on a ward with lots of other people most of whom were dieing and defecating themselves, homeless people roaming the ward going through peoples stuff etc.
Now I am grateful to the doctors and nurses who did the emergency procedure to save my life but I was shocked at the level at after care which to me was like being in a third world country.
I dishcarged myself early as I was fedup of having to watch poor old people having to ask up to ten times for basic care. The bathroom that was shared between 20 people was a discrace and at several points was covered in human feces.
The government make sure there is no alternative unless you are a celebrity you will be put in nightmarish conditions, where sleep, good food and regular care and attention is off the menu.
Private care in the UK is great but only for minor ailements you get seen to quickly in a clean hospital by staff who are paid properly and actually have the resources they need.
No offence to the staff who do the best they can on a shoestring but the NHS = National Horror Service
Joe Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 3:10 pm
I’ve seen this exact story somewhere. Word for word. Interesting.
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 8:10 am
Yes, it’s called ‘The Propaganda Machine At Work’
Good call.
July 29th, 2009 at 6:50 am
Believe what you will, but socialized medicine in Canada works. This is why Canada is ranked amongst the highest in any lists.
Most of the BS you americans will hear about it, is just that BS. yes there’s problems. there’s a key difference.
hospitals, in Canada, are staffed with people that WANT TO HELP, where as in the private industry, hospitals are businesses FIRST, patients are CUSTOMERS, and the whole point is to do as little as possible, while charging the most.
In Canada, if you are sick, you go to any doctor or hospital you choose, show your Medicare Card (if you don’t have one you’ll have to pay a small fee) and get TREATED. No forms, no HMOs, no BILLS. You will never died because you can’t afford treatment.
There are indeed wait times here in Cannuck land, but nothing close to what the US MsM is “reporting” and in the case of severe need, we’ll send you wherever you need to go to get treated, even if that’s to the US.
It’s pure insanity, no, not socialized medicare, the fact that most americans are smart enough to call their government on the BS they spew, but swallow every tidbit of made up “facts” they shovel into your face when it comes to medicine.
So, lets rehash something. Socialized, government run, medicine is horrible and the end of the world right?
Well, your politicians and military are already on THAT plan, and they seem to love it. Kristol was completely pwnd by jon Stewart the other night on this exact topic.
“Government run medicine is horrible, the worst possible thing to do”
few minutes later
“The government runs the best medical service there is, bar none”
when called on it his reply in essence
The army deserves better healthcare than the rest of americans, because they are better than the average american, and it would cost too much to treat each and every american equally.
THAT’S INSANITY
lola granola Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 7:24 am
Mr. Bongwaters,
How much of your paycheck is taken out in taxes to fund other people’s illnesses?
hiho Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 10:03 am
that style of thinking is what prevents a good (if created properly) system from working.
America has for a long time lost its sense of community and turned into a “me” society. Sure some of your earnings via tax are funding other people’s illnesses, but what is wrong with that? At the same time, other people’s tax money could potentially be used to help your illnesses, and its good to have peace of mind that if something seriously happens to you, that you will be supported instead of being treated like an outcast because you have no money.
“Oh but they should have got a better paying job”
This draconian thinking should be dead and buried. In todays society there are many many things that impact upon a person’s wealth. Maybe they have a lower paying job but enjoy their job. Maybe they are in a trap where in this tough time cannot find a better paying job or cannot get the qualification etc. The possibilities are endles. Who are you to deny a person help from their illness?
Oh of course, everyone from this site has a right winged conservative ideals like Ron Paul. Ron Paul isn’t always right, nor is any politician, but if he helps put control over something that could be terrible if the democrats don’t do it right, then that is a bonus.
I am fortunate enough to live in a country where if I get sick and can’t afford it, i’ve essentially made an “investment” to get better. We pay for rubbish like wars and research into global warming etc, but you want to deny people from getting better.
Something to remember with your right winged conservative ideals: the more healthier people, the more productive the society, which means less money being spent on healthcare in the future, which means the government may have some slim minute chance of paying off some debts or provide some service you may need. The research shows that for every $1 investment made in healthcare today, the government will save $14 in the future.
DaMartyr Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
It’s the “me” mentality that thinks stealing from productive people to pay their bills for them is acceptable. The US is supposed to be a free society, not one where a government official mandates I take vaccines to be healthier. Medical capital investments will flee the US and the system will be broke, requiring higher taxes and inflation. I’d rather pay $100 in insurance per month and get a bill if I get sick than be a slave my whole life.
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 7:54 am
Would you leave someone dying in the street too because it would inconvenience your day…?
Everyone pays into the same system. Maybe you get sick, maybe you don’t – but the fact is that no matter what happens, whether it’s you, or someone you love, that system is there to help catch you when you fall.
You think it’s funny paying $50,000 just to give birth in a hospital? Or owe $10,000 for the anesthesia to keep you from being in agonizing pain?
My sister couldn’t afford health insurance and now she owes $60,000 that she’ll never be able to pay, just because she gave birth.
In Canada, it’s free. Entirely. From Entrance to discharge.
I dare you to tell me that the American system works.
Geolibertarian Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Candada has the single-payer system, and not only does Obama not support single-payer, he ruled it out as an option from the very outset!
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/.....e_paye.php
Why?
Because under single-payer, the delivery of health care is still private and patients are still free to choose their own doctor, and the sociopathic eugenicists pulling Obama’s strings don’t want that:
http://propagandamatrix.com/fo.....ml#msg9645
Duh Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 10:40 am
phishybongwaters – awesome post man..
Granola thats the problem with you americans. You only think for yourselves. I take back what I said about Rob..THAT has got to the most stupidest self absorbed comment I ever read on this entire site..
I dont think you will find too many canadians that mind being taxed to help out “other” people when they themselves dont have to worry about getting help when they are sick..God im still shaking my head..
the sad thing is most americans think like you and this is why your country is going down the toilet..and i think its best that it does. Do the rest of the world a favor.
Self centered f---S who only care about themselves.
jonas salk Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
i wonder if any of you selfrightious canadians have ever been really sick and have actually had to really use your health system or if you are healthy young people who havent expirienced the horror stories. americans can take care of themselves we dont need a nanny state to solve problems that are our personal business
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 8:17 am
Well Jonas,
How much does it cost you to give birth in a hospital? How much does it cost you – personally – to fix a broken arm, or be treated for cancer? Or stay overnight in the hospital.
Look that up for me, would you? Let’s see the numbers. Now show me what they are when you don’t have Health insurance.
I guarantee you that the cost of whatever that cost is is a monstrosity compared to the pittance you’ll pay for ‘Socialized’ medicine. When you or your parents are sick and dying and you get a bill for tens of thousands of dollars, know that in under ‘Socialized’ medicine that would be FREE.
And, while we’re on the topic: ‘Socialized’ medicine? Why don’t you just call it ‘Dirty, stinkin’ Commie’ medicine…
You are so snowed that you don’t even know which way is up.
Postmaster General Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
How many people in Canada nowdays, a couple of million? Keep your govt. deathcare to yourselves hosers!!
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 8:18 am
*sigh*
Read a book
July 29th, 2009 at 6:57 am
Nationalized health care HAS a reduction in services built into the model. It’s one of the primary tools and goals of a eugenicist. That, there, is more than enough for me to say “no thank you, shove it up your ass.”
Don't chemtrail me bro Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 11:47 am
You said that you that you think ntionalized health care has a reduction in servises built into the model. Alright, let’s look at the other side of the coin… the current U.S. healthcare system is built around the profit motive. You hear all the time about services denied to people by these corporate healthcare providers. People die because they don’t “qualify” for the procedure. That certainly sounds like a “reduction in servises built into the model.” You are a classsic case of one of us Americans who is buying the propaganda. OUR system is the flawed system. I’m an American and I’m going to call a spade a spade.
Joe Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
FYI: Private Insurance not only has it built in it is the GOAL of the Insurer to limit and reduce pay out of services PERIOD. I don’t like the Health care bill or more to the point what it has become, but even I got admit that the current systems is horrid. It needs to be fixed. Not maybe, definately. If you think the current proposal is not good. Fine, thats one things but to say that the current HEALTH CRISIS (and that is what it is) is fine or not a huge problem is being willfully ignorant.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:05 am
Your going to die, why shouldn’t Corp/Govt cash in on your death care carbon credit?
July 29th, 2009 at 7:14 am
Einstein was a fraud, just like everything else we’ve been made to believe.
NH schemes are indeed a eugenicists dream, look at the many tens of thousands of elderly patients that die in British hospitals from viruses, totally unrelated to whatever it was that they were admitted for.
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 8:22 am
Oh, and look at all the malpractice suits filed against American Doctors who don’t know their asshole from their armpit.
And if you think the spreading of bacterial/viral infections only happens in NH-ized hospitals you are so ill-informed that it’s laughable.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:24 am
You are claiming to be writing for “Campaign for Liberty”, you should just say the truth that you are “Campaigning for Insurance companies”
July 29th, 2009 at 7:25 am
Those of us with health care worked for it.
At some point in our lives we made a choice to stop f---ing around and get our lives in a direction leading to success. That is a choice as FREE AMERICANS we get to make. In a free society you are also FREE to f--- off and not drive to success. If you choose that route, then don’t bitch about where it got you.
Free to succeed, free to fail.
Personal Responsibility.
Duh Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Not when it comes to health care.
Another moron.
Canadians are free, more free than Americans on alot of things. So that argument does not work..
You just keep piling up the stupidity that you represent as your country..
Why is the goverment in place? to WORK for the PEOPLE. health care should not be a option by the rich..it should be a givin..
You dumb asses are comparing american and canadian health..and why? look at the list and see where america is compared to canada..
You are completely a jackass who should be shot in the head.
I hope a bomb does drop on this cess pool of a country, do us all a favor.
Postmaster General Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Hey, hey Hoser…
Go blow yourself, who gives a f--- about America’s Northern red-headed stepchild.
onechance Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
This is the second time I’ve heard this sentiment from a Canadian recently. Real classy people you are, at least were not subjects to the queen of England. f---ing scumbag.
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 8:31 am
@Duh
Wow, yeah, brilliant. Asshat.
If you’re not going to bring an informed, intelligent argument to the party then, please, go post on 4chan or something.
America is under attack by one of the most well-funded Psy-Ops armies in the World: HMOs. They’re rich, they’re powerful and they have been saving up for decades to go to war with the next person who dared try to cut in on their territory.
They kicked down one President already, now they’re trying to destroy this next one to make an example for all who would dare come forward:
Do. Not. f---. With us.
Obama is taking them on, head on, and – scary as it is – the HMOs are winning. A single speech or two from Obama is not going to get rid of the daily BS streaming across the airwaves every day. TV, Radio, Print.
American citizens are being swamped and swarmed and misinformed. It’s no wonder everyone’s so pissed off. How can anyone know what to think – especially if you’re working 2 jobs and have kids and barely know what’s going on anyways. All you’re going to hear is the negative s---.
Factually: Bad news travels faster than good news. And sticks longer.
Obama had an uphill battle before he got into office, now he has to fight uphill, barefoot, through a swamp in a hurricane.
Thank the HMOs for that. They’re the ones that deserve your scorn and your blame.
Don't chemtrail me bro Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Sounds like you subscribe to the “Me” view of society instead of the “We” view of how society should look like. Strictly a Caveman perspective.
July 29th, 2009 at 7:29 am
To everyone for nationalized health care, I have a question for you.
My neighbor in his 50’s was born with one kidney. He drank like a fish his entire life until his one kidney went out. Spent 6 weeks in a coma, and now has dialysis three times a week for the rest of his life, to the tune of NINE THOUSAND DOLLARS a MONTH! He knew his health was compromised (one kidney) every single time he put that bottle to his mouth, but didn’t stop until it was too late. Who should pay for this hospital time and dialysis? Should he, for making bad choices and having to deal with the consequences, or me, Taxpayer Joe, because the government steals my paycheck to do so?
U.KO'd Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 8:01 am
Good question. The same can be said for obesity… should someone who risks their own life by scoffing down fat all day be treated for free when they know the full risks involded?
Well I would say why do we need to deal in absolutes? We can still have universal healthcare for the resposible, and we can still insist irresponsible people pay for their own healthcare when they know the risks… I would say however that the NHS should support those who want to take control of their life…
Joe Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
Whats your neighbor’s name. Can we get his side of the sotry. Where does he get his coverage from now? How does he pay for it? How old is he? Please give us some solid facts that we can verify because I’ve seen this I ahve a and this happen so this will become the rule not the exception. Also, if he was in a coma for 6 weeks his brain matter would have serious deteriated and there would be more cost that he couldn’t afford also his dialysis treatment is the most expensive I have ever heard of. In other words I smell serious BS. But I await your answers before I say you are full of it.
Postmaster General Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
He should move to Canada, hmmmm Moosehead beer, and Crown Royal pleaaase!
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 8:40 am
Sure, there will always be people who abuse the system.
Just ask all those rich people and corporations who’re using tax loopholes to avoid putting millions back into the system.
Or, you know, ask AIG what you do.
You think Nationalized healthcare is bad, those pricks f---ed you way worse than ‘Socialized’ medicine ever will.
All while under the guise of having a ‘Free America’.
Yeah, that one stings.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:23 am
Few facts about USA’s health care system:
- USA spends 14% of his GDP on health while Canada spends 9%. (USA is one of the less efficient among the industrialized countries… blame it on transaction costs, negociations, administration, etc.)
- Infant mortality rate in the USA is worst than most industrialized country.
- Over 40,000,000 americas are without any form of health insurance.
- Half of bankruptcy in the USA happens coz of people who aren’t able to pay their treatments.
- Private health care insurances are in for the money. They will always try to find flaws in the contract so they don’t have to pay for ones treatment.
Postmaster General Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Those people should quit working at Wal-Mart and move to Canadaaaa…..
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 8:42 am
Incidentally, my sister was demoted at Walmart — docked a full $1.30 from her hourly pay — because she got pregnant and was therefore ‘less useful’.
July 29th, 2009 at 8:54 am
I think healthcare falls under “unalienable right to life”. Private companies should not have full control over health care the same as private banks should not have control over our money supply. Paying out the ass for your health is like paying for oxygen to breath. I don’t know the exact answer but look at public schools, there are both public and private schools and they compete. Some public schools are better than others and the better they are the more money they get. The crux of everything is to stop assholes from being GREEDY and charging people more and giving less. Maybe once healthcare bigwigs start seeing they cant rape everybody with this scheme system they will stop scheming! And if there is enough money for these wars we’ve been having, theres enough money to fund healthcare, and research, and hospitals.
Don't chemtrail me bro Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 11:53 am
correction: that’s inalienable right, not unalienable right.
July 29th, 2009 at 9:00 am
oh and for all you ASSHOLES who say sleep in the bed you made. Like oh wow I didn’t smoke, I didn’t drink, why should I pay for you? YOU ARE NOT PAYING FOR OTHERS, you are paying for ALL OF US TO HAVE HEALTHCARE. You pay for wars, you pay for bulls---, but you will be mad that someone has to have a new liver or kidney because they made a bad decision. f--- THAT, we are humans and we break and get hurt and just because you live in a bubble doesn’t mean others have too. Also, for everyone that looks down on another, look at yourself. You may not smoke, you may not drink, but what about that diet pepsi? What about the car you drive and the noxious emissions? You heat your house? You get your nice little lawn done and sprayed? You probably are doing a s---load more harm thinking you aren’t then a drunk reject whose only footprint on the world are his (or her) empty bottles. If someone is running and trips and falls and breaks their arm are you going to not help them and leave them to bleed in the street because they were “running incorrectly” and should no better? Come on assholes, one day it will be YOU who needs the help, let just make sure its there.
Duh Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Again Light they are self aborbed flakes who only think for themselves. No sense of community and brotherhood just whats in it for themselves.. THIS is the american dream and luckily its soon to be over..
And you americans wonder why the rest of the world cant stand you. Because you do what you want when you want, you dont even care about your OWN people, you’d soon push someone else outta the way just so u can get somewheres on time..
Sad, Pathetic….where the hell is the sense of community in this damn country..I just dont get it..what ever happened to helping out your neighbor…What has he ever done for u? maybe thats the problem, you all expect things just cant help out someone just for the sake of helping out someone..
Don't chemtrail me bro Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 11:56 am
When I’m overseas in an area that might be iffy, when people ask me where I’m from I tell them I’m Canadian. I’m from the USA. It’s just a safer thing to do.
duke of omaha Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Whaaaa, a hoser doesn’t like us, what should we dooo……
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 8:47 am
Actually, it’s the CHRISTIAN thing to do.
“Love thy neighbour as thyself”
That’s the word of Christ… of GOD… from the Bible. Perhaps there are a few on here who are in need of some Bible study time. You know, ’cause they’re such good Christians and all.
Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
http://www.topical-bible-studies.org/24-0003.htm
Ronda Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
I have to agree with Light & Duh. I think if you don’t want to help somebody who is suffering then there is something wrong with you.
Postmaster General Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
You can smoke, drink, and eat backbacon everyday in Canadaaaa… Free health care for all!!
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 8:48 am
Yep, you can do that in America too.
And it’ll cost you (or your grieving family, when you die) tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills.
July 29th, 2009 at 9:09 am
yeah, I would think that in our case, with all the military bulls--- we pay for , that we could afford to at the very least not have people screaming out in pain from toothpain and messing up my vibe at the mall.
July 29th, 2009 at 9:45 am
“…any private exchange at all would be criminalized…”
My grandfather got his false teeth on black market in Hawaii. I did not understand why he had to go to the black market to do this, but now I know. It was against state law there.
The black market will now be everywhere or else you will have to stand in line. If you thought the DMV was bad imagine making all of health care like that! So to speed it up you slip the doctor some cash. THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN JUST LIKE IN THE OLD USSR!
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 8:52 am
Um… yeah, bring up the Cold War and the USSR.
Man, you are so reaching right now.
Come back when you have an argument.
July 29th, 2009 at 10:05 am
I oppose this. Forcing anyone to do this is simply wrong. What else will they force on you? America was built on freedom, not coercion. What if you take good care of yourself and don’t want health insurance? You will be penalized?
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 8:54 am
Obama is putting the Nationalized system side-by-size of the HMO system. You’ll have a choice. And competition will drive down prices.
Which will piss off HMOs.
Massively.
That’s why they’re fighting tooth and nail to kill this thing dead and bring down the president who dared to try and change the status quo.
July 29th, 2009 at 10:22 am
This bill and plan IS NOT THE ANSWER! The fact they want to rush (UNREAD) this and other plans through lightning quick SMELLS OF DECEIT ! Sunshine is the BEST DISINFECTANT !!!!! and they hide everything , unlike Obama’s promise of disclosure.
Don't chemtrail me bro Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 11:59 am
I agree, I want some kind of national health plan instead of private monopoly healthcare but this bill is not the answer. Everytime they try to rush things thru the congress in this country we get the Pariot Act, Homeland Security, cap and spend etc.
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 8:59 am
I wonder where this level of passion and scrutiny was during the Bush era?
I agree that rushing things through is going to make for problems – but when you’re the only one who genuinely wants to fix the system; knowing that the person who comes after you will kill it dead the moment they can; knowing that you probably only have 4 years (at best
to get something in place that will take 10 years or more to fully be up and running smoothly…
Well, yeah. It’s going to be a rush. Get the best minds on it that you can, smooth out the wrinkles as it’s done.
You know, like the Patriot Act… except that people will actually pay attention to – and read – this one before it’s passed.
July 29th, 2009 at 10:33 am
JUST LOOK AT THESE TWO AND TELL ME YOU DONT SEE SATAN WORKING THROUGH THEM !!! SERIOUSLY LOOK AT THEM, ALL THAT BOTOX ISNT GONNA SAVE HER SAGGING FACE,LOL.
Postmaster General Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Botox for everyone in Canadaaaa…..
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 9:00 am
Your name is well deserved. Are you also a Birther?
July 29th, 2009 at 10:40 am
The only medical change we need is the AMERICAN PATRIOT to cut the obama hemorrhoid out of the USA and send him back to his ismalic fairy moon god allah!
Frankly obama and his comrades have told so many lies and have been PROVEN wrong , and that they are liers, who even cares about the NBC birth certificate any more? He needs to be cast out for fraud, deceit, lies, treason, and more. Here is more PROOF of the deceit and lies:
Oh ya, and, Barry IS a COMMUNIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey guys! Guess what? More on Usurpers Birth
Posted on July 29th, 2009 by Lynn Dartez
In 1961, the Public Health Services, U. S Department of Health, Education and Welfare, National Center for Health Statistics, National Vital Statistics Division published the “Vital Statistics of the United States — Volume I — Nativity.”
Here is a .pdf copy of the 246-page document — if you don’t have high-speed Internet connection, go get a cup of coffee when you click the link.
Section 5, the Technical Appendix, contains text discussion of factors affecting the collection, classification, and interpretation of the natality statistics published in this volume.
Subsection 5-7 contains the requirements for “Sources of Data,” and contains an image (page 228) of the “Standard Certificate of Live Birth,” issued by the National Vital Statistics Division. The Standard Certificate of Live Birth (page 227), issued by the National Vital Statistics Division, which has served for many years as the principal means of attaining uniformity in the content of the documents used to collect information on this event. It has been modified in each state to the extent necessitated by the particular needs of the State or by special provisions of the State vital statistics law. However, the certificates of most States conform closely in content and arrangement to the standard certificate.
The “Standard Certificate of Live Birth” contains the father’s race in block #8 and the mother’s race in block #13. Hawaii’s “Certificate of Live Birth” contains the the father’s race in block #13a and the mother’s race in block #12a.
Now, here comes the good stuff. Page 231 contains the requirements for “Race and color.”
“Births in the United States in 1961 are classified for vital statistics into white, Negro, American Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Aleut, Eskimo, Hawaiian and Part-Hawaiian (combined), and “other nonwhite.”
Do you see a classification for “African?” I certainly don’t.
Now, let’s look at the document that Obama has provided for certifying his eligibility for the Office of the President of the United States and that is displayed on Annenberg FatCheck.org.
FATHER’S RACE is “African” — an incorrect entry for that data field. Just a typo? I don’t think so. The Obot who created the bogus Certification of Live Birth just couldn’t type the word “Negro.” Negro is just not politically correct, don’tcha know.
Oh, what tangled webs we weave, when first we practice to deceive.
This information was provided by Steve Cee, a genealogist, who has also authored this new analysis (graphics-heavy MS Word document) of the Obama Certification of Live Birth (COLB). Steve’s contribution adds to Dr. Ron Polarik’s extensive forensic examination.
Obama’s COLB is demonstrably counterfeit. It’s a fraud — as is Obama
Postmaster General Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Thanks Lou for that update, now back to Canadian Healthcare for allllllllllll!!
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 9:03 am
You are the reason the GOP is floundering.
You think you’re helping anyone with screed like that? The Democrats love you.
You are helping them.
Just thought you might like to know that.
But hey, it’s a Free Country (TM) — by all means, continue.
July 29th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Unfortunly we have been taken over by some forign enity. oboma & company (acorn) They have complete controll and are rushing to completly remove the constitution and our freedoms and turn controll over to the new world order. They are not even trying to hide It. They have been In our country for some time 1929 . sona will try to take our guns (and or forced flu shots martal law ect.) and this will be the start of the end. I look forward to the day when these traitors are prosicuted and executed for there treason.
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 9:05 am
The public school system has obviously failed you.
You should find Bush and tell him you were left behind.
July 29th, 2009 at 11:32 am
The “Free Market” approach is what led to the fiasco that causes untold deaths and lack of adequate healthcare.
People who make such claims as this author apparently have no medical issues or are floating in dough or have a dubious reason for writing such garbage..
Single-Payer, not-for-profit healthcare is the only sane answer. Einstein would wholeheartedly agree with me on this, I am confident.
What I am suggesting is not doing something over and over again, for it hasn’t ever been done for the general public.
But ask virtually any Vet, congressmember, or person on Medicare if they would enjoy giving theirs up for Mr Anderson’s truly insane notions and they will suddenly call him the crazy person he is.
Cut the heads off the health insurance companies and make it single payer. The MRI equipment is already plentiful here. Don’t allow these “crazies” to insult your intelligence and try to scare you.
In most cases, they have some ulterior motive that surpasses the actual care and health of Americans. I wonder what Anderson’s is?
July 29th, 2009 at 11:36 am
I recommend everyone here visit:
http://projectcamelot.org/index.html
There is a lot more info. out there that you won’t find here. This is a good site and source, but there is more to the story. Instead of listening to Alex talk about pimpin the hoes, hear the truth.
http://video.google.com/videop.....5260900218
And go to Ron Paul’s site and Contact your senator and congressman,
the number of co-sponsors has started to slow, we’re close but need a lot more:
http://www.ronpaul.com/
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 9:07 am
Ron Paul should definitely Audit the Federal Reserve.
July 29th, 2009 at 11:58 am
I am not sure what the best answer is but we should start by running the scumbag insurance companies out on a rail. These days the only way to get quality health care is to be employed by a large corporation (or a local state or fed government) so you can be covered under an uncancellable plan that will probably pay when you get sick.
Postmaster General Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Bill, free healthcare in Canadaaaaa for all!! You can even have a pet Polar Bear in your backyard.
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 9:08 am
You know, if you take all of your posts, line them up and add a beat, you could have the next Republican hit single.
Do it. The free market will love you.
You’ll be rich.
July 29th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
I can not say that I am entirely in favor of big Government either. But the problem is that the the medical insurance companies are so messed up, it leaves a functioning Democracy little choice but to try and pass a universal/quasi-universal health care plan. My sister, for example, is 3 months pregnant, and recently told me how no insurance company will cover her over here in California. So she gets Medi-Cal. What is the alternative? Have the child on the front lawn? This is absurd for anyone who is “pro-life” or anyone claiming the such. Perhaps I’m ignorant though – really…what else can she do?
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 9:13 am
Well, for a few grand she can make the trip to Canada.
Or she can stay there and be out $50,000 or so to give birth in a hospital. Without Anethesia.
Or she could try and find a midwife.
That’s probably the most sane answer. She’ll have a natural birth, it’ll be safe and she won’t be nearly as bad off.
Google water birthing. Warning… can get graphic and gross.
July 29th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
The most stupid article i have ever read on this site. Seems that the author has no clue about basic solidarity. Even in the 21st century.
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Thank you for your common sense and compassion. Seriously.
July 29th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Having worked in the U.S. health care system for twenty years I can tell you the capitalist free enterprise model of health care is totally f---ed and totally criminal.
Look to Canada, Norway and France as what to model a health care program toward.
And seal your borders and make immigration with tough standards to protect your own system.
The stronger you make your system, the more you can choose to help out a few extra people every now and then…on your own terms.
Deport the illegals. And take care of your own first.
Postmaster General Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Send the illegals to Canadaaaaa. Free health care of allll!!
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Lalalalala – enjoy your dream world.
July 29th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Giving half your money to greedy insurance company execs is insanity. The system we have know is stupid and criminal. We pay twice as much as most countries where everyone has coverage. Don’t be a chump for our insurance industries, they already have pleny of money to consol themselves with.
July 29th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Fact is people need healthcare. I work in Health insurance if you get Cancer, Aids, Heart Attack, Diabeates, or Pregnet and dont have coverage your fuked. I lived in Europe for 4 years never had to wait in line for surgary or medication or doctos visits. Tax me I am ready for Federal Coverage.
July 29th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
FOR PROFIT is the key downfall of the American system. 40 million without healthcare is proof that the system is suffering from corporate greed and in need of some humanitarian kindness. Americans ARE crossing the border to Canada to buy medicine and will probably travel to Cuba after seeing SICKO.
Canadian government oversight and price/profit regulation allows voters to have some control over the process rather than being at the mercy of corporations maximizing profits for shareholders. That’s where the THEFT of resources is occurring and why universal coverage trumps ZERO coverage.
I’m a Canadian living in Japan and have experienced the pros and cons of the National health vs. private healthcare debate. Japan uses a hybrid model of private hospitals/clinics and universal coverage. I believe that Obama and the globalists are perhaps in favor of this type of system because it allows inflated prices of medication and poor service to maintain private profits and at the same time boost taxation and control over society.
I taught English to a German pharmaceutical company manager who explained how one tablet of medicine that his company sells in Japan for 5 cents wholesale ends up costing the national system one dollar by the time distribution companies and hospitals/clinics get their cut as approved by the government. As a result medicine is overprescribed and placebo sugar pills are often substituted to put people’s mind at ease when they really have no need of medication. The Japanese public have no idea how corrupt the system is because they get coverage and are indoctrinated to accept things the way they are.
Because National Health premiums are based on income, those who can afford to pay more contribute to the benefit of those who cannot, which is cool. The downside is that protectionist policies for domestic drug companies make private clinics with imported medicine remain outside the system.
My full time job required me to join the national system and experience its bogus medicine and hours of waiting in long lines. When I was laid off and moved to a new “city” I was able to opt out and purchase private healthcare from England. This allowed me to go to the foreign clinic with an appointment (rather than wait for hours like cattle) and receive the most effective treatment/medicine available.
If you have a high salary then private coverage may cost you less, but for low income earners national healthcare will provide a basic medical standard but with some inconveniences. I suspect the globalist don’t want 40 million more healthy American voters with fully developed brains able to figure out how badly they’re getting screwed by their system of money. But just like they figured out how to profit from greenhouse gases they are probably looking to make a bundle even with National Health by creating a corrupt system. So Americans must be vigilant and read the fine print of Obama’s plan.
If the FED is abolished and Americans escape from debt slavery, paying interest on their money supply to European investment bankers, then there will be hundreds of billions of dollars annually in the economy that can go toward funding universal health coverage and education.
So WAKE UP PEOPLE and get rid of the Federal Reserve System and fractional banking that is creating inflation, stealing your wages, reducing your standard of living and keeping you in debt from cradle to grave.
July 29th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
This article is just scare tactics. It repeats the talking points used by the GOP that have been endlessly debunked. The most controversial aspect is the public option, which will simply give you a choice. there will not be anyone forced to do anything. this site has taken a nose dive man.
Postmaster General Reply:
July 29th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
Bingo Jordan, you win an all-expense trip to Canadaaaa!! Land of the free healtcare for allll….
July 29th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
http://www.scribd.com/full/170.....ip1gi3rqgo
READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SPREAD THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 29th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
I don’t care what you say. I bust a gut every time I watch this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UtL3maK8aU
July 29th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
I don’t care what you say, I bust a gut everytime I see this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UtL3maK8aU
July 30th, 2009 at 12:29 am
Is there a way this site can shorten these articles a bit, and maybe just throw up the links? I can’t be here all day ya know.
July 30th, 2009 at 1:33 am
http://www.scribd.com/full/170.....ip1gi3rqgo
read this
make copies
tell every1 u know to make copies and file charges at your district courts and police stations
July 30th, 2009 at 6:05 am
This is the best argument for universal health care for all Americans. Please read.
(I am not the author, but I agree)
–
Septeus7 Says:
July 22nd, 2009 at 2:05 am
Here are my thoughts on this issue and I oppose Obama’s plan, the current HMO system, and unlike Ron Paul I don’t in the fantasy of “the free market” but rather wish for a return of the Hill Burton system which actually worked.
A Conservative argument for the “Right to Health Care”
“A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead with no clothes. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, and he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, he too passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and looked after him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’ “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?” The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
Any man who wished to call himself a conservative must ask himself what is it that he wishes to conserve, preserve and protect. But this is really being asked is what do I value and think should remain for the future. Well, according to so-called conservatives such Dr. Ron Paul we ought to be conserving the principles of the Constitution of this nation and thus “life, liberty and (the right to) keep the fruits of my labor.”
Unfortunately, the Constitution says nothing about a right to life, liberty, and to keep the fruit of individual labor. It is the Declaration of Independence that says all have “the inalienable right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.” What does the “pursuit of happiness” have to do with the “fruits of labor”? Ben Franklin rewrote the section of the Declaration of Independence from Jefferson’s original phrase of “life, liberty, and property.”
Why did Franklin think that the “pursuit of happiness” wasn’t reducible to the notion of enjoying the benefits of one’s property and labors? Because was it very obvious to Franklin the Declaration of Independence for the people of America had represent all Americans not just those that owned property. Why would American who didn’t own property and didn’t enjoy much of fruits of their labor fight for the rights of those who did own property and enjoyed the fully benefits of that position?
No, the idea of happiness isn’t found the materialistic idea of pleasures of the materialistic wealth but on the higher conception of man being found in the Christian conception of the Joy comes for being able to live a human being knowing that you creating a better world around you. True happiness is found in the knowledge that you have done good.
Knowing that happiness as understood correctly the founders is found increasing capacity of right action of human beings toward each other is thus a proper basis for civilization. In fact, the freedom to pursue happiness is necessary for civilization to be preserved and advanced and thus government that obstructs that pursuit has violated the natural law and thus the right of people to alter or abolish such a government.
Now that it has been established that proper basis of Civilization is to increase the capacity of man to care for man if one is to be conservative in anything regarding the action of legislation in government then it must be according to this principle. One cannot argue as the Anarchist argue that legislation and governance is unnecessary to effect the upward capacity of man because according to them perfection of action is found already in the perfect working of the “free market” prior to governance and legislation but if this were the case then no increase of capacity of man would be possible because the working of the free market i.e. the productive action of man all already perfect and thus any argument for a free market without government an argument against the possibility of civilization by definition.
Government intervention into the productive action of man and productive being defined as work increasing the capacity of man to care for man is the only proper basis of civil action by government because government only has authority within civilization and since civilization must work to the benefit of man so must government.
So what subjects of legislation must Government consider in order it to function? The things needed increase the capacity of man to care for man? Does the practice of medicine increase the capacity of man to care for man? By definition it medicine does just that thus whatever action government takes toward medicine it must be increasing the amount of medicine practiced and power of its effect.
So what action can government takes toward increasing the medicine practiced and the power of its effect?
According to the Libertarian, no action of government can be taken accept to insure such an outcome except that an individual is protected in “property rights” and that a system for settling disputes over claims regarding those property rights.
Does this claim make sense? Can government which is a collection of individuals is by virtue of it being solely capable of sovereign action on behalf of a nation is less capable of effecting change toward increasing healthcare whereas any other individual or collection of individuals without sovereign power is more capable?
If government is so incapable against unthinking foes such as disease and injury then what chance does it stand against armies of arming thinking men?
Governments have, can and do make inventions into medicine which improve the amount of treatment provided and its effectiveness.
The question is to what extent government should be involved in medicine.
Well, most folks think that the Military should have a medical system attached to it and most folks would say it’s vital to well functioning military? And they are right thinking such a thing for what Military ever functioned with plans regarding to the healthcare of its members?
But where doesn’t the Constitution talk about this specifically?
Nowhere, but general principle of the Common Defense would imply we would have the authority to do what was necessary to allow a military to function.
If a military is necessary to that purpose and military being made of men needs universal medical care for its members to allow for it function of the common defense of the civilian population then by what logic should the civilian population be denied universal care needed for provide the military with healthy men for service? Shall we have a strong military while the civilian population is crippled and sickly? Shall we demand a military do protect the nation against the ravages of invading armies but let it very nation succumb to the ravages of disease, injury, and illness? If the civilian population is sickly and weak then who will provide the military with arms and supplies? Would anyone say our military should dependent of the charity of foreigners and strangers? If no, then why force the civilian population such dependence while claiming to fight for independence?
If a military is vital for the common defense and a nation have right to a common defense then does it not follow that the vitality of nation be vital also to the common defense and thus the right of the citizens of the nation?
That is first argument that certain level of healthcare is a right of citizenry for without it providing for the common defense is impossible. So a good government make that enough of the working population is provided care to support a common defense.
The second argument is the principles of domestic tranquility and the fact that is necessary for government ensure that general state of peace. If a nation is not tranquil then how can one be secure in their right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness? Therefore the Government has the right to action needed to defeat enemies that threaten the domestic tranquility. Are not the common enemies of mankind disease, injury, and even misery disruptive to the domestic tranquility?
Can there be Tranquility while our populations suffer the full and unrelenting savagery of nature? Did the founders of this nation intend us to return to the rule of jungle and everyone for themselves? Surely not! They founded a republic where the common welfare of the nation is the guiding principle and we have the right to fight the enemies of the common good and enlist the power of government toward that action.
Only a slave would accept the idea that disease is the natural state of man cannot be fought and the citizens do not have the right to the claim political power needed to fight the common enemies of man.
The third argument is that if the General welfare clause means anything then wouldn’t it mean looking out for the health of citizenry?
Now the Libertarian will once again argue that only way the government and look out for the general welfare is to protect the property rights of the individual and that alone secures the general welfare.
But notice the claim here is that property equal human welfare. But is that true? Let’s do a little though experiment and test out this idea. If I’m free human being and have the right to life, liberty, and enjoyment of the fruit of my labor and I’m happily working until I get sick and now my life is threaten. So I am forced to sell everything and I have to pay for treatment and Mr. Libertarian would say I’m enjoying the fruits of labor by selling it freely to secure medical treatment.
According to the theory, I have a right to life as long as willing to exchange labor or wealth in order to keep that right. Once I no longer have anything of value then no action necessary by any other person to keep me alive and they like the priest or Levite are perfectly morally in walking right by me. Well, notice the claim here. The right to life isn’t inalienable but can by denied by anyone because there is no inherent value to my life in terms of the market and even if there was a market value to saving my life if the person who could save just didn’t want to act there should be no principle of law compelling him to act on my behalf.
Now continuing with my story where let’s say I continue to get sick and no longer have anything to pay so he makes me an offer he’s continue to treat until I get well if I agree to be his servant for the next 15 years? Well, According to Mr. So-Called Libertarian it not the government job so stop transactions like because after all I don’t have a right to health and the government shouldn’t force people to take of me and since the debt slavery is only way the free market would voluntary take care of me God bless the “”Stars and Bars” we are back in the Confederacy. But US constitution isn’t the Confederate constitution and we recognize that you cannot claim to promote the general welfare while permitting the institution of slavery debt or chattel because then while slavery exist the welfare of the owner is protected and the welfare of the slave is denied.
Slavery isn’t conservative because the of human beings value doesn’t consist in the sum total of the fruit of their labor or how much property they have and therefore no exchange of property could be just that permits human slavery.
Human beings have an inherent value being made in the image of God and just letting those slip away to disease, illness, to needless agony without fight if a crime against our common humanity as much trading our human freedom for property is a crime.
What is a right? A right is something that only exists in the context of civilization for it would be absurd to say a man on a deserted island had any rights against the weather or the wild animals which threaten his life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Now even if women where to show up on the island it would still be absurd to say anyone of them had any right unless they start a particular set of relations. The set relations would be of the kind needed for them increase the human power of existence on that island for permanent settlement.
In short, without the possibility of family there are no rights because without the possibility of permanent effect what force would compel a set of proper relations to exist among men if all relations are of no lasting importance? Can a right be said to exist while also claiming that it of no importance to the future?
So rights come into existence because they are necessary for civilization to lasting effects toward increasing the capacity of man to care for man and therefore if some claims decrease the power of man to be civilized then no right exists.
So does man have an absolute individual right to “fruits of his labor” i.e. property above all other claims so that no claim can compel another man to use his labor and/or property against his preference even if such action is necessary to avoid death or mitigate destructive suffering?
Do children have the right to claim the fruits of labor of their parents? According to the Libertarian, no individual (the child) has a right to the labor of another (the Parent). But if everyone where to exercise this so called liberty of denying children the fruits of the parent’s labor what would happen? Well, civilization would collapse and what use is a right if exercised results in the destruction of civilization?
So seeing as the claim the no one has any right to the labor of another cannot be universally true then in some cases the opposite must be true and if that must be true then on those such occasions then a right to the labor of another must exist because it is necessary and if a relation among men is in principle necessary then by definition it is a right.
Is medical care such an occasion where it must be provided in because in principle in order to increase the power of man to exist in civilization it is necessary and thus a right?
To answer this one must inquire to the nature of medical care and answer the question in what does the value of medicine lie. Is it the ability to collect fees for the service rendered or the function of rendering care itself? Obviously, the rendering of care is where the value lies and not the so-called right to compel compensation.
Why? Because the action of medical care is hopefully to heal and thus allowing the potential of the patient once healed to return to a productive life and thus from the value generated in the recovery of the patient and not taking of wealth created prior to the onset of illness or injury because if medicine exists merely to cannibalize the already existing wealth of the sick then it is not medicine at all.
Why, because what motive exists seek medical care if the sick know that doctor only find gain the patients sickness and not their recovery?
If the sick know this then everywhere the value of medicine is reduced and if the value decreases then it is less often provided and produced because it would make no sense to produce something of decreasing value i.e. diminishing returns and thus supply being restricted by the physical reality of decreased value will cause the price to raise because less care is provided and what care there is would be of decreased value.
Therefore all actions of medicine by nature must be toward the rendering of more care regardless of current immediate cost and therefore if the Government finds it necessary in providing for a Common Defense, promoting the General Welfare, and ensuring of Domestic Tranquility that establishing institutions of medicine are necessary and if the practice of medicine by its nature requires that care everywhere be extended and increased. Therefore, access to such care is not to be denied because it proper and necessary function of public service and if it cannot justly denied because it necessary then it is a right.
Healthcare is a right of man because if it denied then Healthcare is destroyed everywhere in that act of destroying the value of human life by sin of omitting necessary action towards one’s neighbor. That is why Christ said “go and do likewise” referring to the action of Good Samaritan toward the injured man on the road.
The Good Samaritan’s action was the only action lawful action and how can society function without law? Is Government less obligated toward its citizens to follow natural law than the Good Samaritan? If he is compelled to finance medical care of his neighbor because it was necessary then by what means is our government excused from that duty if it is necessary?
Healthcare is not a Good it is a necessary service of man towards man.
July 30th, 2009 at 7:04 am
Just what we all need. To become wards of the state & do as we are told. We kicked the brit bastards out once, because of their tyranny. We don’t agree with ” Make the world England”.
DD Reply:
July 30th, 2009 at 9:42 am
Ummm it’s not just Britain.
And I wonder if you really understand what you’re turning your nose up at.
July 30th, 2009 at 8:01 am
I work for a company that runs the business aspect of health clinics across this country. We have many good providers who work with their patients to make ends meet on the costs of healthcare when our patients can’t afford it. We work very hard to make up for what the current system now lacks, yes our system needs reform especially since a patient can be denied healthcare coverage by an insurance company for a whole list of medical problems that they can not help nor prevent. The private insurers are mounting up into a system of hypocracy, getting people to pay for medical coverage that they aren’t really supposed to use. We all agree the system needs reform here in our offices, however this healthcare plan put out by our government poses a major problem for my company and my providers, due to the massive amount of imposed government regulation half of our providers will end up not being able to practice for months or even years, rendering my company and our clinics void and leaving how many people jobless. Further all our patients who have been seeing our providers for over ten years and have needs to see our providers monthly will be forced to find another provider for that time period, and on top of it the healthcare system would be much like medicare, in which our patients would no longer be able to come each and every month since it would suddenly be seen as “unnecessary”. Further this particular healthcare bill takes away a patients choice of provider, its one of the clauses in the bill that we would practically be assigned a healthcare provider. I don’t know about you but I really prefer to pick the person that sees my entire body privates and all, and not to mention didn’t our forefathers stand on the choice of individual citizens? Now our government will be able to say that a woman has a choice to abort her baby since its her body, but she doesn’t have the choice of who is giving her annual pap every year, don’t know about you but that’s a little messed up. Further this plan also gives the government the right to deny life-saving surgery in older aged citizens inorder to give the surgery to younger aged citizens. Imagine your 69 yr old grandfather or father being told he’s not allowed to have triple bypass surgery because he’s not going to make much more money to give to our government when the 49 yr old across the country will. That is putting the decisions of “God” into government hands, didn’t the world as a whole decide no government will ever “play God” again when we witnessed the horror of Hitler? Further this runs one very unAmerican risk, this particular healthcare plan runs the risk of its citizens no longer being citizens but subjects, when we would be seen as how much we give and how much we take from our government simply by our health is when we are no longer citizens of a country but subjects of an empire because we become nothing more than a number. This particular plan is a major threat to our liberty and to the American spirit, passing this bill will spit on everything our forefathers fought and died for. I am not against healthcare reform because it is necessary, private insurers and the greedy healthcare providers out there have caused this system to be intensly corrupt. Howeve I am not against universal “free” healthcare either, because nothing is free someone somewhere down the line has got to pay for it and that pay will come out of higher taxes when we already give our government how much of our money? I think that we are in serious risk with this particular healthcare bill, if it didn’t imply loss of choice, loss of jobs, loss of rights, and cost me more money I’d be for it but those are things I’m not willing to pay.
July 30th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Just because it bears repeating:
America is under attack by one of the most well-funded Psy-Ops armies in the World: HMOs. They’re rich, they’re powerful and they have been saving up for decades to go to war with the next person who dared try to cut in on their territory.
They kicked down one President already, now they’re trying to destroy this next one to make an example for all who would dare come forward:
Do. Not. f---. With us.
Obama is taking them on, head on, and – scary as it is – the HMOs are winning. A single speech or two from Obama is not going to get rid of the daily BS streaming across the airwaves every day. TV, Radio, Print.
American citizens are being swamped and swarmed and misinformed. It’s no wonder everyone’s so pissed off. How can anyone know what to think – especially if you’re working 2 jobs and have kids and barely know what’s going on anyways. All you’re going to hear is the negative s---.
Factually: Bad news travels faster than good news. And sticks longer.
Obama had an uphill battle before he got into office, now he has to fight uphill, barefoot, through a swamp in a hurricane.
Thank the HMOs for that. They’re the ones that deserve your scorn and your blame.
July 31st, 2009 at 7:45 am
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