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Turley fears Dems will let alleged ‘Bush crimes’ stay buried forever
David Edwards and Muriel Kane
Raw Story
Thursday, July 24, 2008
George W. Bush has been more sparing than most presidents in handing out pardons, but it is starting to seem that the conclusion of his term in office may be marked by a generous use of the pardon power to let members of his own administration off the hook. What’s more, constitutional lawyer Jonathan Turley believes that the Democrats will let him get away with it.
“The Democrats are trying very hard to show … that they’re not going to re-open these issues and that the Bush crimes will remain buried for all time,” Turley told MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann on Tuesday. “It would start a new administration on the same level that George Bush left it. And that’s a very sad thing.”
Turley was particularly concerned about a recent statement by law professor Cass Sunstein, an Obama adviser, that only “egregious” crimes by Bush officials should be prosecuted by an Obama administration.
(Article continues below)
“We’ve had eight years of moral relativism and the avoidance of legal process,” stated Turley. “And to start a major campaign with the suggestion that we’re going to distinguish between egregious and non-egregious crimes promises more of the same.”
“Did we just see accountability go out the window for good?” Olbermann asked Turley.
“That would probably wrap it up,” Turley replied.
“There are very few obligations that a president has to do under the Constitution, but one of them is not to violate the laws that he is supposed to enforce,” explained Turley. “And what really concerns me about Cass Sunstein’s statement is that I don’t know what a non-egregious crime by a president or by an administration might be. I think that all crimes committed by the government, particularly the president, are egregious.”
Turley further pointed to Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s refusal to initiate impeachment proceedings against the president, saying, “I don’t understand why some Democrats can’t just simply accept a very straightforward proposition, that we’ll prosecute any crimes committed by this administration, an Obama administration, a McCain administration. Because they’re crimes. They’re all egregious.”
Sunstein’s remarks followed a story in last week’s New York Times, which reported that “several members of the conservative legal community in Washington said in interviews that they hoped Mr. Bush would issue such [pre-emptive] pardons. … They said people who carried out the president’s orders should not be exposed even to the risk of an investigation and expensive legal bills.”
Former Reagan Justice Department official Victoria Toensing — recently best known for arguing that no crime was committed in the outing of former CIA officer Valerie Plame — told the Times flatly, “The president should pre-empt any long-term investigations.”
Turley noted that the Bush administration doesn’t seem to care whether pre-emptive pardons would be an implicit admission of guilt. “I think this would be the ultimate and final show of contempt by this president for the rule of law,” he concluded. “I think this president would find it very consistent to say, ‘I can tell prople to commit crimes and then I can pardon them for it.’ What is very troubling is that there appear to be Democrats on the other side who would welcome that.”
This video is from MSNBC’s News Live, broadcast July 22, 2008.
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19 Responses to “Turley fears Dems will let alleged ‘Bush crimes’ stay buried forever”
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July 24th, 2008 at 4:49 am
He can ‘pardon’ all he wants. But their ‘rule of law’ is going down and they will prove totally meaningless. The so called Law is a joke on it’s own and this is an example as to why.
July 24th, 2008 at 5:10 am
This government is a disgrace. No one pays for any crime no matter how great. They are the definition of nihilists, the entire Bush League. Morally bankrupt, and so corrupt there’s only one explanation. Hitler never died, his soul was transplanted into Dubya, but they forgot to put the brain in. Satan had to build a new wing on to hell for the Bush league and Haliburton got the contract. A million souls cry out for justice. How long will the world stand still?
July 24th, 2008 at 6:00 am
Good thing they represent “We the People”.
Democracy is not a Republic…. look it up. Save the Republic.
July 24th, 2008 at 6:45 am
this will set the stage for absolute governmental lawlessness in the USSA from prez to dogcatcher in the coming obamanation..how can you not believe everything Alex is saying..
July 24th, 2008 at 7:30 am
“They said people who carried out the president’s orders should not be exposed even to the risk of an investigation and expensive legal bills.”
Apparently there is a different law for them… if you are asked to commit murderer… you are the murderer and you go to jail!
Saying they were asked to do the crime does not make them innocent.
July 24th, 2008 at 7:48 am
newfly777;
“USSA”…that’s great, very funny, i was going with the “New.S.S.R.” but yours is way better.
what do you think of the term i coined “cyber-serf”?
SERFS UP!!!
July 24th, 2008 at 7:57 am
Not one of the people who call themselves our “leaders” are going to jail. The only people going to jail are people like us. Who do you think the bullshit “rule of law” is for? Them? Hahahaha!
Whose rule and whose law? Here’s a hint…it’s not ours. It’s for us and to us, but not for and to them.
Just like other pathetic sound bites. For example, “protect and serve.” Who do you think the police “protect and serve?” Obviously it isn’t us. The police love nothing further than to “help people.” Yes…into handcuffs and off to jail. The police “protect and serve” the organized criminals at the top and those hidden from view. And most of the police are too fucking stupid to realize who they “protect and serve.” That’s why when you go to a protest they have the look in their idiot eyes like they can’t wait to crush your skull with a baton.
This whole planet is an asylum run by insane criminal idiots. Just a big playground for organized crooks who control all the laws, the military, the police, the judges, the churches, and most of the brainwashed idiots you see at the grocery stores buying their poison food stuffs.
Good luck finding any Karma or justice on this stupid planet. Oh, and your idiot God or Jesus isn’t coming to save you morons. It’s all been orchestrated to keep the masses under control and give them false hope that there will be some judgment day or everlasting life if you believe in a bunch of fairy tales. So keep turning your cheek and loving your enemy as they pummel you into submission and steal everything you think is your right to have and to own. Your right to life or liberty, much less the pursuit of happiness. How can anyone be happy on this slave planet Earth?
July 24th, 2008 at 8:01 am
Call Conyers office, I just did
Let them know you want Bush and Cheney held accountable for war crimes and to let Kucinich discuss all impeachable offenses.
Take a minute and call now;
Washington, D.C. Office:
2426 Rayburn House Office Building,
District of Columbia 20515-2214
Phone: (202) 225-5126
Fax: (202) 225-0072
It actually took less time to call then write this
July 24th, 2008 at 8:54 am
Too bad “we the people” aren’t prosecuted only for “egregious” crimes.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:59 am
I’m now convinced that we’ve moved into a dystopia of the sort described by Orwell or Philip K. Dick. Surveillance. Totalitarian rule by illusion made possible by a complicit media. Rampant criminality at the top; fear, learned helplessness, and ignorance rampant among the workers. Orwellian doublespeak. Total destruction of the family and culture (meaning theater, music, cuisine and the arts). Gross polarization of wealth with radical measures taken to maintain that polarization. Widespread, visible pollution and the collapse of the Earth ecosystem. I’m not describing something that could happen. I’m describing the reality on the ground right here, right now, in Amerika. It seems to me that the latest surveillance bill could be seen to mark the completion of the transition from emerging informal surveillance state to dystopic totalitarian/authoritarian/kleptocratic tyrany.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:10 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture
Torture remains a frequent method of repression in totalitarian regimes, terrorist organizations, and organized crime. In authoritarian regimes, torture extracts confessions from political dissenters, so that they admit to espionage or conspiracy, probably manipulated by some foreign country. Most notably, such a dynamic of forced confessions marked the justice system of the Soviet Union during the reign of Stalin (thoroughly described in Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago). In addition to state-sponsored torture, individuals or groups may inflict torture on others for similar reasons; however, the motive for torture can also be for the sadistic gratification of the torturer, as was the case in the Moors Murders.
Did they just say STALIN?????????????
July 24th, 2008 at 10:17 am
I called John Conyers offices this morning & asked the following 2 questions regarding the meeting about impeachment scheduled for this Friday:
• Has Mr. Conyers indicated that he will stop the proceedings if any mention of impeachment is made?
• Is it true that the gathering is a result of H.R. 1345 which is specifically about impeachment being referred to the Judiciary Committee in a full House vote last week?
Read my story of what happened on my blog
http://www.deepdarkrabbithole.com
Try calling yourself.
July 24th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Screw the New World Order. Bush must be beaten down like mad, for taking our freedoms away.
I can not believe our time was the end time……
I will just wait for Jesus now.
July 24th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
The sadists want to get away with their sadism.
July 24th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Chuck and also George Hayduke: Spot on, guys. You might find my article “The Godfather USA” interesting reading. Link:
http://gregoryfegel.sulekha.co.....er-usa.htm
I personally believe that institutionalized fascism in the US government goes way, way back into the 19th Century, and the Bush Administration’s behavior is in no way an anomaly or unique to the American experience. I also believe that fascism is so deeply imbedded in the US government, the US military, US corporations, US education, and US society that there is NO WAY we can turn things around through the existing political process or through nonviolent demonstrations.
Unfortunately, the US population is far too brainwashed and apathetic to engage in the much-needed Revolution. So what I hope for, and what I tell my congregation to pray for (that’s a joke, son) is the total economic collapse of the USA, which could ‘defang’ and render the USA powerless to continue its Imperialism on the world stage.
As for domestic fascism within the USA, that’s the problem of the US citizenry, and if they haven’t got the brains or the balls to overthrow the US government, I’m not going to risk my own life doing it for them. When I do fight, it will be for myself; the American people have not proven themselves worthy of my own efforts. A person would be a fool to fight for people who have neither the sense or the courage to fight for themselves.
July 24th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Democrats and Republicans – Two heads of the same monster!
July 24th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Do “THEY” really have that much power and dirt on people to stop impeachment? Seems like there must be some operative or handler or three for each Senator and Congressman to marionette them all with distractions to keep them off the track, perhaps this is what happened with Ron Paul, to get him off track his handlers thought it safer to get him to run for President so he was not as much of a problem on the hill bringing impeachment proceedings and such?
July 25th, 2008 at 1:11 am
I agree with George, …(Hayduke that is, not “w”!!)
July 25th, 2008 at 3:50 am
What we see here is a part of the drama of “how it is”.
When it comes right down to it, the elite will do what they want with what THEY have constructed, ie the law, the state, the constitutions etc.
All states and everything withing the context of the State Apparatus belongs to the elite, they created it, and now they are dismantling it in their arrogant and in-your-face manner.
The most pertinent question is:
What am I going to do about this in my “here and now”.
Meaning in my day to day life, what will I do about this.
I can talk, explain, hand out information, but as a creative individual, I have choices, we ALL do, and the elite know this too.
They know Clinton can lie to the US and get away with it.
They know the Murrah building in Oklahoma can be blown up, and the news covered up and get away with it.
They know all the lies about Afghanistan, Iraq and 9-11 can be blatantly obvious, but what is the threat to them?
Really, this will continue, along with the dismantling of all the structures the ELITE have created through time towards the Global “Nazi” scientific dictatorship that the elite have planned out ages ago.
So now we see it all blatantly happening, the question is, will we good people just let it?
Are we too afraid to say something, to organize ourselves, to spread the word, to scream, to create empowering alternatives?
To just take the step, the primary small steps away from this madness and towards creating the world, the life that we all deserve.
Its really not that hard and most people reading this, with these interests know that there are models and examples, and if there are not, we can create other ones.
It will probably get a whole lot worse, but it doesn’t have to.
Spread the word, make noise and start thinking and planning how to create an empowered life for each other.
The elite are doing it for themselves. NOW.