World Trade Center building 7 was not a square or a rectangle, but a trapezoid:
As such, the larger side of the building would be heavier and more massive.
NIST claims that column 79 collapsed, leading to the collapse of the whole building.
Column 79 was located towards the larger end of the building (towards the bottom of the following diagram):
Because NIST claims that only column 79 was destroyed in the beginning of the collapse sequence, and because the same side of the building in which 79 was located was the bigger, heavier side of the building, two different influences should have ensured that the building tilted toward the bigger end.
article continues below
Therefore, high school physics shows that – if column 79 had collapsed and explosives did not take out all of the other support columns at once – building 7 should have tipped towards one side.
NIST’s argument that the strong exterior steel held the building perpendicular and didn’t let it tip over is illogical. The forces generated by the two above-described processes would be larger than any dynamic NIST describes. At the very least, the contrary forces would have been visible, and there would have been buckling, swaying or other indications of competing forces.
NOTE: If the collapse had started at the base of the building, then perhaps the wider base on the larger side of the building might have compensated for the greater weight. However, NIST states that the collapse started at the thirteenth floor. The wider base should not have offset the greater weight and failure so high up – from the 13th floor upwards – at least not entirely. In the absense of explosives, we still should have seen substantial deformities, buckling and/or tipping.
I encourage physicists and engineers to estimate how much heavier the larger side of the building was than the smaller side, and to calculate the forces which would have been at play given the hypothetical collapse of column 79.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:17 am
Gravity gets you down! So this article is wild speculation at best and is not based in the here and now.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:25 am
Gravity gets you down!
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:11 am
I’m still wondering if the building fell faster than it should have. If it collapsed faster than the laws for the spped of gravity, then all of NIST’s babble rings mute in my ears
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:14 am
So we are suppose to believe that out of 81 columns it only takes 1 to bring down a building?? isnt that the point of having 81 columns lol. i would imagine a building like this could withstand several columns failing. what a joke!
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:26 am
There’s no end to people’s capacity to produce horse crap and no end in the capacity of people to accept it.
Everyday I lose more and more faith in humanity.
What happened to the intelligentsia who would in past times speak out against such bold-faced lies?
We live in a time where money is God.
So, I guess they have been silenced by a pay-cheque (sp?).
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:41 am
They would have been much better off not publishing this ridiculous report. 1 column out of 81 and some thermal expansion from office fires: come on, now your just taking the mickey out of us!
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:59 am
Thinking about the press release session… The building falls down because 1 column gives way from a “new” thermal expansion phenomena initiated by a few fires. While at the same time, the so-called 50 experts suggest that the building can’t be brought down by explosives because it will take too many to actually bring down the structure. Are you kidding me? It is obvious that explosives can bring buildings down, We would not need 3 years to figure that one out! From the report they failed to mention at the press conference, that 2 of 3 attempts to model the structural failure, yielded no collapse. Further, the FEA model shown was only a short time period and was not shown to completion (6-8sec) covering the entire collapse sequence. Additionally, and generally in all NIST reports they seem to rely on some mythical property of steel that looses strength while hot and is brittle at the same time, while in reality, the material if it did reach high enough temperatures might be more like Gumby, stretching, sagging, etc. As many have pointed out, the building would tilt toward the damage area, never or extremely unlikely to go straight down.
This was not engineering, or science… but a stream of unmitigated Bull $*@$. We need to get the FEA model released. Many of us have LS DYNA or equivalent non-linear FEA and can check the models and results independently. All FEA strictly follows the engineering adage “Garbage in, Garbage out”. The NIST results mean little to nothing without independent verification of the models. It is easy to “engineer” the results by parameter adjustment. Much of the subject of FEA is well above the engineering communities heads, let alone the general public. For experience, even engineers tend to by into the pretty pictures, even if total BS was input into the model.
The perfect storm… A “New” effect and FEA models, and no physical evidence to boot! Will you have the blue or red pill today?
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:09 am
These buildings were built during the energy crunch. There are a few factors to consider. The project was something to do for numerous construction workers. The methods and a few of the materials were new and un-proven. In order so control spending trusses were brought into the mix along with light weight steel members (that is to say lighter than what you would find in buildings like the Empire State).
In numerous locations “box beams” were utilized along with C channel and selected based on engineering specs that favored lightness and cost effectiveness. The Empire State Building was over built in contrast to the built for speed WTC buildings. So, then the designers who never built skyscrapers like these before needed to claim they were in fact durable and safe.
How on Earth could an engineer know for sure what the total cost would be on a building built to be light and cost effective during an energy crunch? The simple truth is that the proof is always in the pudding. The buildings were not erected so that they could be struck by planes. It is merely wishful thinking that they could withstand “2 747 strikes each” or something like that.
It is an unrealistic expectation that seems to be viral that our buildings are in some way bullet proof when it is merely the grace of God that allows them to stand. In NYC’s early days these growing skyscrapers steel from PA was cheap and plentiful so the buildings were generally way over built. The modern way is based on minimums and that was rooted in the energy crunch of that period.
We arrived at a time of glass and steel but back in the day there was less glass, heavy steel and precast concrete wall sections. The buildings stepped down in width on the way up back then and gives them a greater internal strength. I don’t know how many of you ever were in the WTC towers when they stood? As you went up you could feel the buildings sway in the wind. With that came a lecture from the tour guide about the towers.
Essentially the towers were skinny boxes that lacked all of the appeal and charm of the older and still erect Empire State Building. These were office buildings with a restaurant and observation area but were in no way over engineered. What do you expect happens when a jet crashes directly into a building? The logic here has the plane bouncing off the magic tower.
Wait the next will be there were no planes…LOL Someone will mention the “POD” attached to #175 or how there were no fires in WTC7 or that dark smoke means a poor fire but never accounts for all of the plastic, chair cushions, TVs, computers, laminates, desk cubicles, reams of paper, carpeting, chemicals and all the other things that burn foul.
Steel becomes weaker as it is heated and to say it does not is dishonest. Steel members that are joined with welds are generally brittle in the joints. Steel trusses must be fire rated because trusses and fire don’t mix. There is more to say for another time!
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:09 am
“They decided to pull it” -Silverstein (or whatever)
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:14 am
AO,
The properties of stiffness and strength vs ability to stand up to various stress-strain inputs should be considered when evaluating how a particular build or structure will react. The more brittle and heavier (stone and concrete) materials always exist in balance and trade-off to the goal of making usable space in the structure for occupants. The fact that the building is flexible under dynamic loads, in fact, makes it generally very durable. It won’t “shatter” it bends, moves, or whatever else is required to redistribute loads and reach a new equilibrium point, either moment by moment (dynamic) or under static conditions, otherwise your building will be walking down the street (all integrals must sum to zero vs time, i.e. the building is on average stationary).
Thus far neglected is any mentioned of built-in safety factors built into these structures.
Lastly, I do not recall any plane hitting WTC7.
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:27 am
AO,
Will you explain where the interior core columns went?
I once heard it said well, the pancake theory (floors falling down due to gravity) is like what you see on an old record player when the record gets released from the top of the spindle. The spindle still stands and so does the 47 interior core columns.
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:38 am
fuk you nist bastards slaves to the end of the world
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:40 am
Richard Gage and AE911 truthers must feel like Galileo making the case for a heliocentric solar system in a world of inquisitors.
Irony is a quote by Our Vice Dick , Cheney, who said,
“There comes a time when deceit and defiance must be seen for what they are. At that point, a gathering danger must be directly confronted. At that point, we must show that beyond our resolutions is actual resolve.”
The King wears no clothes !
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:51 am
I’ve argued with a friend who was spoonfed the gaping hole story. I’ve always questioned how the southside of WTC7 could have received the amount (However you want to define the extent of damage) of damage it aquired. The government story stipulates that the damage to the southside of WTC7 was the result of the towers falling and it was debris from those towers that caused the damage to this side of WTC7. Well, alrighty then. Between WTC7 and the towers were two other buildings (WTC5 and 6) and they got clobbered more. But, you know what. They didn’t fall down. So the argument goes on.
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:56 am
I think I read in the NIST Report: “The thermal expansion of the metal structure, due to fires that weren’t adequately kept from rapid thermal expansion due to the sprinkler system being deactivated (water diverted to fire operations at Towers 1 and 2), and also due to the added stress of heat applied from FEMA personel roasting marsh mellows in the vicinity of the WTC complex the day before, added a full 24 hours of additional heat to the metal complex and this was a phenomenom that was quite unique to typical fire/collapse dynamics that we claim to have studied in the past”
Thanks NIST. Smokey The Bear would be so proud of your findings/dillusions.
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:02 am
2 different videos showed some of the towers[not 7] steel columns still standing after the demolition wave had reached the ground,and then lo and behold these massive support columns still standing straight up disappeared..poof..gone like magic..turned to dust in front of my/our eyes..knew right then and there,with 100% certainty,that this was positively an inside job..there is only one thing on this planet that can turn steel to dust like that,and that is a nuclear reaction..
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:11 am
AlphaOmega, how many buildings were built in the United States during this era and how many have fallen???? Of all of those “cheaply” built, gravity defying structures….3, WTC 1, 2, & 7. All due to a “perfect” set of circumstances that caused them to fall straight down with 0 degrees of deflection, not to mention that the events yielded fortunes for a small group of individuals and still does . This article makes plenty of sense. Engineers calculate the placement and integrity of every component of a structure to counteract every possible scenario and forces that may affect the structure. A trapezoid design distributes the buildings weight unevenly and to think that all surfaces would fall in harmony is absurd. It’s also worthy to note, the entire penthouse structure on the roof collapsed completely within its self prior to the total collapse. Are we supposed to believe that the penthouse fell because “1” support column failed? You say the proof is in the pudding, I say the pudding and proof was swiftly sent to China before anyone could get a good look at it. Why do you suppose Rudy did that???
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:42 am
I read the new NIST explanation just to see what kind of bullshit they were going to and pull. There was no point though. All you have to do is watch the building fall to realize that it’s not a natural process. It fell symmetrically and spontaneously through itself with no resistance an at free-fall speed. “Thermal expansion” or not, such a perfect collapse into a neat pile in that manner is not possible. Combine this obvious reality with the rest of the evidence, witness testimony, and complete lack of proof presented by the official story, and the whole thing becomes laughable.
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:59 am
And only a single powerful force should have toppled this criminal regime…if they weren’t all busy to look cool ‘n stuff…
It’s all water under the bridge now…
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:07 am
APPARENTLY THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOT SEEN THE VIDEO OF THE BRIT REPORTER, WITH WTC7 STANDING IN THE BACKGROUND, ANNOUNCING THAT WTC7 HAD JUST COLLAPSED. THE BUILDING FELL INTO IT’S FOOTPRINT 15 MINUTES LATER. SEEING IS BELIEVING.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:08 am
Consider this a general reply to those that mentioned me….
Your contention is that explosives were used to fall 7. Another variation is the use of thermate or thermite. More of what you contend (you in general who consider WTC7 as an implosion) is that the fires were not severe, that the physical damage from towers 1 & 2 was insignificant and that fire does not weaken steel or in any way cause deflection….
The type of construction used is problematic since it uses the lightest possible members in concert with fire resistant coatings to allow for an estimated window of time to extinguish any subsequent fire. Any steel member has a “fire rating” and the more substantial the longer. Trusses must be coated and are problematic since the coatings can and often do come off if they are indeed ever applied.
Essentially we lack the ability to substantiate any claim that we might make regarding the use of explosives to take down WTC7. I’m sure that if you had absolute proof you would bring it but my bet is that what you actually have is less then absolute proof or more likely a sort of Rube Goldberg patchwork of complicated claims and scenarios.
NIST never set out to prove your side and it appears that they disproved it by stating that there was no proof that explosives were used or even present. This places any and all of the NIST investigators into an ever growing Rube Goldberg type of complicity scenario. Surely you can see that you are actually suggesting that everyone including the NYFD was in on the scheme that grows ever more complex??
As I said and as was agreed to buildings like the Empire State were over engineered and buildings like the WTC were unique and absorbed a great deal of risk due to there light and cost effective approach. There is nothing you can say about it since the truth is the towers did not withstand the impacts and since they are the mother load of truss construction we can see why trusses are dangerous.
It is true that as the temperature climbs the atoms in the area become more and more excited. Steel that is heat treated becomes annealed and softens when it is exposed to heat. Heat causes expansion and weakens welds. NIST created a model that happens to fit with the observations of 9-11 and also ruled out explosives.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:15 am
AlphaOmega scribes: “a sort of Rube Goldberg patchwork of complicated claims and scenarios”
You are one snappy-dressing domino delivery boy.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:27 am
This NIST conclusion is absolute bullshit! What about Larry Silversteins quote of “There has been such a terrible loss of life today why don’t we just pull it” ??? referring to WTC 7 These guys have fucked themselves and are scrambling to deter anyone from the truth because the NWO is running scared!
911 was an inside job and it doesn’t take much of a brain to figure it out…
I will call myself a conspiracy theorist when you consider yourself a coincidence theorist….
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:34 am
Alpha Omega gets paid to post here.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:34 am
FEMA stated that a deisel fuel fire hypothesis was the reason,along with structural damage from debris from the falling towers, that caused WTC& to collapse. But they went on to state that the diesel fuel fire hypothesis was of a low probablity.
AO read the official FEMA report.
Now, they also had molten metal in subterranian levels for months after the event at WTC7. That heat of those fires was consisntent with the temperatures required to liquify steel. However, a diesel fuel fire could never reach a temerature to bring steel to the point of liquification. There are numerous videos of workers, both government and private clean-up companies, at WTC7 discussing the molten metal. Also, NASA did imagery several weeks after 9-11, and showed the intense levels of subterranian heat at where WTC7 once stood and of where the towers had been.
NIST has not discussed this. In fact, in an earlier reporting, NIST discounted the diesel fuel tank fire hypothesis. This is why they have ephasized the structural collapse due to columns being damaged from when the towers fell and hit the southside of WTC7.
The government only states that the steel beams, columns etc “weakened” in relationship to the highest temperures that diesel fuel can aquire and that the weakening of the steel facilitated the collapse. Again, what about the molten metal and the temperatures at the sites?
Chew on this data AO
Also, I’m still waiting to hear from NIST as to how these buildings fell so fast, at or near free-fall speeds.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:38 am
Sorry about the spelling mistakes. I make up for it by having alot of common sense.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:42 am
Have a great day folks
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:43 am
Alpha Omega is either an idiot or a disinformation agent.
1. The government has NEVER provided a model on how WTC7 could collpase in 6.5 seconds, let alone a model for WTC 1 & 2 collapsing in 10 seconds.
2. WTC 7 was built like a pyramid as any modern steel building is, the pyramid structure is simply hidden with Modern Steel. In all buildings, thicker and stronger steel is used on the bottom floors and gets lighter as you go higher.
3. Fire proof coating is NOT required for steel to withstand fire. Coating is only good for 2 hours while steel can withstand fire for dozens of hours. Fire proof coating was not removed from WTC 7.
Alpha Omega is a traitor, murderer and war criminal for their support of our evil US Government.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:51 am
“NIST never set out to prove your side and it appears that they disproved it by stating that there was no proof that explosives were used or even present.”
How would they know ? The debris was removed from the crime scene !!
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:54 am
Zionism = Nazism = KKK
All 3 are racist political ideologies that seek to create a pure race state.
The American KKK also wanted a racist 2 state solution just like racist Israel wants.
The only good Zionist is a dead Zionist.
Destroy the racist ideology of Zionism along with the racist state of Israel and much of the worlds problems will be solved. Certainly much of Americas problems will be solved.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:59 am
tritium.
must have been something in the sheetrock.
inside job, outside job, who cares?
All you need know about 911 is that it absolutly did not happen
the way we have been told.
Years of disinfo and re writing reports after they are proven unsound and untrue are a mainstay.
If you have no unanswered questions about 911, you havnt looked at 911 in any unbiased fashion.
Its important to gather ALL the info, if it isnt logical or refutes known theories of physics and mathmatics, it most likely is bullsh*t-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V5iCUBEUx4
about 2:50 watch the collapse-
God Bless America
GS
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:59 am
They really screwed up when they demolished building 7 because if they hadn’t, there wouldn’t be nearly as many 9/11 truthers. It’s hard to pull off a large up like 9/11 without a few screw ups, and I’m glad they made the mistake of pulling building 7.
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:00 am
op not up
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:00 am
Like 1 column explains this. Its beyond farcical.
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:01 am
Z.ionism = Nazism = KKK
All 3 are racist political ideologies that seek to create a pure race state.
I.srael’s 2 state solution is the exact solution the KKK wanted here in America. I.srael is the opposite of America and should never be supported by ethical and moral Americans.
We must destroy the racist ideology of Z.ionism and destroy the racist state of I.srael in order to have peace in America and most of the world. Z.ionism and racist I.srael is a moral and ethical crime against humanity.
Yes, I had to insert a “period” in several words because Alex Jones is a Z.ionist who seeks to control the Anti-war Anti-Z.ionist movement. He will give you 90% of the truth but then seek to control/hide the other 10% of truth to direct you away from the actual truth.
The only good Z.ionist is a dead Z.ionist.
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:05 am
So some of you elected to go the ad-hominem way… good luck. For the rest that discuss matters like adults thank you. Overly complex explanations that require huge amounts of participation from all sorts of people are the least likely to be factual.
Some people have have suggested that 2 atomic bombs were detonated under the towers
Some insist that there was a missile pod under flight 175 that was switched in flight with a bod equipped fuel tanker…(mmmmmm mmmmmmmmmm)
Some suggested that the fires in 1 & 2 were insignificant while we watched people jumping to their deaths rather than being burned…(mmmmmm mmmmmmmmmm)
Many people insist that vast amounts of people “were in on it” and they all hate America…(mmmmmm mmmmmmmmmm)
Many people insist that there were no planes at all PERIOD…(mmmmmm mmmmmmmmmm)
Do you see where I’m going here? Do you realize that your accusing 1000’s of people of mass murder or being part of mass murder? Don’t you see how it is you that must prove your allegations to the world? If you were going to mastermind 9-11 why would you do it yourself when the USA does everything via proxy? Why not just nuke NYC and blame it on anyone you want? What if Ron Paul is correct and we are looking at “blow back?”
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:05 am
They really screwed up when they demolished building 7 because if they hadn’t, there wouldn’t be nearly as many 9/11 truthers. It’s hard to pull off a large up like 9/11 without a few screw ups, and I’m glad they made the mistake of pulling building 7.
What Choice did they have. It was pre-primed. 4 planes 4 buildings.
Shanksville plane gets intercepted. Not in the plan. They wouldnt plan a plane meets a field. Not like that. They gave themselves a 10 square mile headache there. They would never do that. Its pretty safe to assume the Shanksville plane was building 7’s real target. It had to come down, plane or not. Thats probably why the saga ran till 4pm in the evening. Diabolical bastards debating the pros and cons. Then Silverstien got his pull it order.
That man should be in an orange suit on “that” statement alone.
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:08 am
BBC Reported Building 7 Collapse 20 Minutes Before It Fell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7SwOT29gbc
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:27 am
Anyone notice that they are claiming the collapse began at the 13th floor? 13 is a very important number for them. Thermal Expansion could mean literally explosions or bombs. They might be telling us the truth hidden behind their symbols and double meanings.
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:37 am
I’m looking at this great picture. I realize that WTC6 is a smaller building (I believe on 9 stories) sandwiched between the North Tower annd WTC7. I’m just looking at the massiveness of the North Tower and trying to imagine where all the mass went. In my mind, it should have buried WTC7. Now, I don’t know which way the North Tower came down, other than watching clips that show it came straight down and not to one side or the other. Again, I would think that WTC7 would have been buried. Or at least, the whole south wall buried. So, where did the mass of the North Tower go in this was merely a collapse and not an explosion?
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:40 am
Scott’s on the right track………
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:42 am
My father burned his lawn debris and his garbage, including various plastics, in the same steel-mesh burn barrel for many, many years. High winds often buffeted the fires with a strong bellows effect, increasing their heat and their intensity.
After several decades, when my father’s steel-mesh burn barrel finally started to break apart, it was not because of heat fatigue from the fires; it was because of RUST. If my father had protected his steel-mesh burn barrel from the rain while he wasn’t using it to makes fires in, it might have lasted and served him well for another decade.
Think about it. If ordinary fires could soften steel, it wouldn’t be safe for anyone to use a wood stove. But even a wood stove made from cheap pig-iron or ‘pot metal’ doesn’t soften or melt in continuous use with raging interior fires.
In England and Europe, people have for centuries used woodstove-type iron or steel indoor heaters that burn coal, which is a fossil fuel that can potentially burn much hotter than wood does. Their iron or steel coal-burners DON’T MELT from the heat of the fires.
A foundry that smelts molten iron, steel, or other metals commonly uses iron or steel tools, including crucibles, ladles, tongs, and molds, to transfer the liquid metal from one container to another, and to process and shape it. These iron or steel foundary tools don’t normally melt — even with continuous use at high temperatures.
No matter how high you turn up the burners on your gas stove, you’re not going to melt the metal supports that the pots sit on, or the pots themselves. You burn your whole house down, but the metal stove tops, the pots, and the stove itself will still be there in the ashes, unmelted.
– Gregory Fegel
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:42 am
Anyone wonder where all that construction material and contents of those buildings went? This lends much support to those who see that the towers underwent an explosion and or implosion. A collapse explanation doesn’t address where the physical mass went? Also, I would think that the debris from the North Tower would have “shored up” the south side of WTC7 and might have actually put pressure on that building to fall to the north, rather than to the south, as NIST contends.
I was just pondering that after looking at this photo posted here.
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:46 am
Mike:
Most of the WTC metals went to India and China for recycling.
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:50 am
Greg, most of the metal (what was left) did go to India and China, I agree. I’m interested in where it went immediately after the towers vacated their 110 stories (whatever this volume is) of air above and ended up on the ground.
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:53 am
Greg, I read your talk on fires and heat on steel etc. This is the kind of logic I love. Good job!
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:55 am
Don’t confuse things with facts and physics, dang it. That AlphaOmega post is some great fiction. Clearly, this person has never taken a High School physics class, let alone a critical thinking course. There is a reason no highrise structure has ever collapsed due to fire, and that is engineering and knowing the qualities of the materials used – whether built during an “energy crisis” or not. For this bonehead to assert that “any” heating of steel creates weakness is just plain silly. We’re discussing a symmetrical structural failure of a building with MANY support columns. For symmetrical collapse, there needs to be perfectly symmetrical and perfectly simultaneous and instantaneous failure of all supports, otherwise there will be an asymmetrical collapse – and that wouldn’t be a total collapse at that. After having spent fifteen years in the LAFD, I can tell you that if this moron’s assertions held any truth whatsoever, no highrise could afford fire insurance and no fire department in the world would have entered another highrise fire from 9-11 on.
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:55 am
Take care folks
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:56 am
AlphaOmega, you’re full of crap and you know you are. Despite all the possible scenarios, the fact remains that the government is holding evidence and blocking investigations. There are massive holes in every event that occurred on 9/11 and they need to be addressed. If you really believe that the CIA asset, Bin Laden, is responsible for these attacks, you are a fool and you need to look at history. Furthermore, you need to go back to your Neocon buddies and think of some more ways to hold back this tidal wave of pissed off people. We will learn the truth and reclaim control of this country, one way or another.
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:13 am
Wow Wakeup and Gary, I was trying to hold AO’s hand to try to get him to think things through a little further and whamo, you guys let him have it. Hopefully he will come around and not just accept what the “officials” have to say, but ask deeper questions with given facts. To accept NIST’s findings, which left out facts that were inconvenient to them, is just not practicing critical thinking. Remember, so many gullible people felt that FEMA’s diesel fuel fire hypothesis was the answer. We watched this be disproven. Then we had folks explain that jet fuel, and other items combusting in the towers’ fires, could not have reached temperatures to melt steel. So, the government had to come back and state that the fires merely had to “weaken” the steel which caused them their ability of strength to hold the towers load. Well, on the surface that seems to explain the governments story for a collapse, but critical thinkers would ask more questions and realize that the government was deflecting an answer as to wy we had molten steel. We said jet fuel/buildings’ combustibles on fire couldn’t reach the temperatures that the government claimed was resposible for melting the steel (we brought this fact to them) and they responded back that the fires didn’t (we said couldn’t) get to temperatures to melt steel and that it merely had to soften the steel to cause it to lose it load bearing capabilty and then the towers collapsed. Ahhh, they didn’t answer how we ended up with molten steel.
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:21 am
Mike:
The actual volume of concrete and metal in a skyscraper is rather small in relation to the volume of the building itself. It has been estimated that the volume of the steel girders and other construction metal left after the collapse of one of the Twin Towers would have been only a few stories tall. As indeed it was. This is particularly true when an explosive shearing force, such as a controlled demolition, has pulverized the building’s concrete and reduced most of it to dust.
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:26 am
Alpha Omega displays all the characteristics of a paid Mossad/NST troll.
If he’s not, then his persistent efforts in the cause of blind ignorance still make him deserve to be addressed and regarded as one.
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:32 am
AlphaOmega said: “So some of you elected to go the ad-hominem way… good luck. For the rest that discuss matters like adults thank you. Overly complex explanations that require huge amounts of participation from all sorts of people are the least likely to be factual.”
That is why they have a 1000 page report on the subject. To explain how campfires made a steel beam heat then contract and lose its concrete support.
Yeah right.
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:49 am
AlphaOmega said: “Overly complex explanations that require huge amounts of participation from all sorts of people are the least likely to be factual.”
The disinformation troll AlphaOmega is trying to divert us from the most disturbing truth — that not only was 9/11 an Inside Job, but that that the 9/11 attacks probably required hundreds, if not several thousand, willing participants to accomplish. We will not come even close to rescuing the USA from fascism unless hundreds, and more probably many thousands, of the allied fascist perpetrators are made to face justice. Serious justice.
See link to my article on this subject, “Impeachment is Not Enough.”
http://kennysideshow.blogspot......ravda.html
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:55 am
Hey Mike, was I too hard on the guy? Sheesh, and I thought I was actually sugar-coating a bit. Sorry, my brother! I’ll try to remember to put on the velvet glove before I type next time. Just so you know, I was very complimentary to him on another post. I said I was very impressed by his ability to type into a PDA keyboard while driving his pizza delivery truck … And I meant that in the nicest way possible.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Death to all Zionists!
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Ad-hominems are all many of you have. Rube Goldberg solutions are a long way around and only entertaining but utterly useless. Here you have no proof that explosives were used but instead you created an alternate representation of what you want to believe happened. We even have the molten steel claims when the highest temperature found was 1340 degrees F. Not hot enough to produce molten steel. There are no pictures of the molten steel under the WTC 1,2 or 7 but there are several faked photo shopped images of glowing metal.
Any way NIST is not going to “get back to you” since they realize that many of you are nearly insane. Your entire claim is a Rube Goldberg solution. Those are the FACTS as you guys put it. Your accusing the NIST people of numerous crimes since their results differ from what you want to hear. According to numerous people here the “CAPER” includes nearly everyone except anyone that drinks your Kool Aid.
Please get out of your mothers basement!
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Alpha Omega is most likey Alex Jones pulling the strings on both sides, either very ignorant or purposely providing disinformation to cloud the facts. What real 9/11 Truther has ever said Nuclear Bombs, no planes ect… Those are professional disinformation campaigns designed to attach fringe beliefs to the real TRUTH campaign. Very obvious, you traitors, murderers and war criminals are pathetic. Come invade my home your little Zionist NeoCon and I will blow your heads off just as the Iraqis do. God Bless the Iraqis who blow the heads off these fascist invaders and occupiers.
Alex Jones is a Zionist and Mossad agitator. Wake up Sheeple.
The US Gov or Mossad are the only ones who can set up a disinformation campaign as professional as this which relies on 90% accurate reporting while using the other 10% to create agitation and disinformation to lead you away at the last minute.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:20 pm
well if you think 90% is bad ken, you might as well turn to CNN or FOX. I am sure they can fill you in on that other 10% you are missing.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Alpha Omega should be corrected like the Zionist idiot it is:
- 1,340 degrees under the WTC 7, “5″ days after 9/11.
- NIST is a Government organization not an impartial observor.
All one has to do is look at the picture of WTC 7 after it was demolished. A very nicely packaged collapse. In fact, WTC 7 was stonger than all other buildings in the Secondary areas of damage on 9/11, yet all only had very minor surface damage like broken windows or beams being shot out from 1 & 2 that caused some minor surface damage to nearby buildings.
I agree that the 4th plane was supposed to hit WTC 7, not the stupid White House disinformation propaganda. The fighter pilot who shot down the 4th plane as been confirmed in Guantanemo Court Proceedings. The pilot was even awarded a medal 6 months ago. The fighter pilot operated on previous NORAD Rules, disregarding Rumsfeld/Cheney orders that were enacted 3 months prior which would have stopped a fighter pilot from taking action without Cheney’s final permission. Crazy to need a Vice Pres permission dont you think?
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:31 pm
That was funny Wakeup
I enjoyed your response my friend.
Greg, I could understand what your said about the volume. After all, buildings are made to have room inside to be occupied. What I was looking for is this: Was there a study where we know the actual mass (concrete, steel, glass etc) and was this what we found at the base of the collapse. If we looked at it this way, we would have another example to prove that the towers had undergone some type of an explosion (thats the dust etc we watched drifting all over Manhattan) and not by a collapse, whcih would have preserved that mass.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:37 pm
AlphaOmega,
You are clearly ignorant. You really need to spend more time watching video footage and reading on the topic. Molten steel was evident at the sites. Now, I’m not going to hold your hand on this. This is a fact that is not even in dispute, just not addressed by NIST/FEMA etc. They acknowledge its presence, but have chose not to give an explanation for it’s presence. You clearly are not worth the time and, like NIST/FEMA ignoring to address the molten metal, once has to choose to ignor you.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Wakeup, I read your marsh mellow analogy as well. Very well explained.
And if that marsh mellow fell of the stick, it would have taken longer to hit the ground than the time we watched these buildings come down. We all know how these facts here and there add up to controlled demolitions of these buildings. I’m starting to think that Darwin was right about the theory of “survival of the fittest” We know which ones we are and God help the others.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Sorry Mike,
NO it was not! Regardless you have no proof that explosives were used in WTC7 and for that matter in WTC1 & 2
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:02 pm
@ ken:
AJ may make occasional mistakes, or bark up the wrong tree sometimes, as most of us do, but AJ is NOT, as you say, “a Zionist and Mossad agitator.”
And if you are a real seeker of Truth, you should have a more open mind about issues like the No-Planes Theory. When I first heard it, I was highly skeptical, but a combination of evidence and sound reasoning has shown me that in fact no planes were crashed into any buildings on 9/11.
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Mike wrote: “Was there a study where we know the actual mass (concrete, steel, glass etc) and was this what we found at the base of the collapse.”
Yes, Mike, someone has done that research. Right now my own attention is being pulled in several directions, but I’ll try to find the source of that data.
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Thanks Greg,
No rush on that
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Gregory Fegel must be another Zionist or Disinformer.
Maybe Greg should look at the structural perimeter column damage of WTC 1&2. Only something with wide wings can do that.
Alpha Disinformer, we have plenty of evidence regarding demolition. Pictures, video and the Laws of Gravity along with the Laws of Thermodynamics say more than NIST or FEMAS thousands of ignorant words.
Let me guess, both of your dumbasses believe some idiot walked on water and now you pretend to be cannibals that eat the flesh and drink the blood of this idiot? Or maybe you are a Zionist who thinks one should cut the tip of your childrens dicks off? Pathetic, either way you are an ignorant barbaric fools that live your lives by rituals and superstitions.
NIST & FEMA = Criminal and Evil US Government.
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Specifically, in Appendix C of its World Trade Center Building Performance Study, FEMA claimed:
Evidence of a severe high temperature corrosion attack on the steel, including oxidation and sulfidation with subsequent intergranular melting, was readily visible in the near-surface microstructure. A liquid eutectic mixture containing primarily iron, oxygen, and sulfur formed during this hot corrosion attack on the steel… The severe corrosion and subsequent erosion of Samples 1 and 2 are a very unusual event. No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified.
FEMA had evidence of liquified steel, as most my wise counterparts here have known. To the rest, the hell with you
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Weak distraction there, AlphaBits! Again, your science is nothing but pseudoscience at best. What you seem to insist on doing, and this is because you have no other choice, is to focus on the discrediting of “unofficial” explanations, rather than providing and credible, verifiable and reproduceable scientific hypothesis supporting the NIST (and your) hypothesis. It’s not up to us to prove that explosives were used. Explosives can conclusively and without question cause a collapse such as that of WTC7. It is YOUR job to scientifically support YOUR hypothesis that this collapse was caused another way with real science that can be replicated in controlled experimentation. The hypothesis that some new new scientific “anomaly” that just happened to occur on this day when never before occurring in any past highrise structure fire and can’t be successfully duplicated in a controlled experiment is preposterous. If your hypothesis is actually somehow accurate, every insurance company on the planet would have immediately ceased insuring every single highrise building in existence, and the construction of new highrise buildings would also have to come to an immediate halt to take into account this new scientific finding.
You know, you don’t have to keep taking this beating. If you head on over to the Fox News website, you can laugh and scratch in their virtual vegetable patch with other (I almost said “like-minded”) hollow patriots.
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Notice how the “explanation” was announced during the Olympics and just before the Democratic National Convention? They made sure it would get little publicity.
But what could they do? Admitting explosives opens upon questions of detailed planning of demolition as well as uncomfortable questions of Guliani’s Command Center, not to mention the Enron evidence.
At least now when some corporate media shill says there is no evidence supporting a 911 conspiracy we can laugh our asses off.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:01 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcqf5tL887o
I got it now.
FEMA had liquified steel
NIST didn’t know of any because they claim they were clueless
NIST in this video claimed they would look at the rate of the buildings collapse and study that to provide an answer.
Blahh Blahh Blahh
Has anyone read that answer in the just released NIST Report?
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
It sickens me to watch the MSM´s take on the NIST report. They just go on and say 9/11 truth movment takes a blow or the mystery is finally solved as if this report says something amazing when in fact it says the same thing they´ve been saying since 2001 that WTC 7 fell due to fire now they just give it a more technical explanation and give you column numbers and as this article just proved the NIST report tottaly wrong..as if we needed more encouragement.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Remember, they have a backup plan if ever they have to admit that explosions brought down the towers.
My friends here can help me find the Bush press video on the merits of torture, where-in he stated that they got valuable information into the tactics talked about by the terrorists. Bush stated that one of the persons being interrogated stated that they had plans to set off explosives in the center of buildings so that people above couldn’t escape.
Again, Wakeup, you have expressed yourself well. This is the critical mindset of evaluating. I respect your thinking. If it was 12:00 noon and I had to argue with some airhead that it was daytime, and they kept insisting it was night, it would seem less time consuming and logical to tell them to prove their ridiculous position while the sung beat down on our faces and the noon whistle sounded. That is essentially what you said. Thanks
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Hey Mike, no, I didn’t have a chance to read the “new” NIST report. I’m a little backed-up in my reading. I still have to get to the last two they came out with. I heard here was some good new plot twists in the one a few copies back where an invisible giant cored out 10 stories inside the building. In that story, did Professor Dumbledore fix it before it became a problem? Wait! Don’t tell me. I don’t want you to spoil it.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:18 pm
As a loyal neocon, I con only come up with one of a few explanations for this information;
1.) Most structural engineers are rabid anti-Americans who hate George W. Bush for no apparent reason.
2.)Only America-hating kooks who want our brave troops to die and hate George W. Bush because he is a Christian believe that steel doesn’t melt until 2700 degrees.
3.)All of the eyewitnesses who reported explosions in the building,and claim they were told ahead of time that building 7 would collapse, including the NYPD officers and paramedics, hate America and want to pull our brave troops(whom they hate) out of Iraq so that Bin Laden and Iran can destroy Israel(we know that 9/11 truthers are closet anti-semites and neo-nazis) and our freedom.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:21 pm
You are too funny Wakeup. I love it. If they had such a thing in that report, I’m sure Fox News could read it to our simple minded friends here to sell them the officail story
Keep up the good work Wakeup!
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:28 pm
By the way, Mike, were you even aware that NIST stands for the National Institute of Story Telling? That’s the government for you. Where everyone else writes – validates – edits – publishes; NIST instead writes – publishes – edits. I’m sure AlphaBits will proudly back it up by telling us it’s all in the interest of saving our hard-earned tax dollars.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Ok, I have to go cook dinner now. I going to cook out on the grill? Is it safe? I mean, if I cook with red hot coals, will the bottom fall out and my steak pancake onto the grate and the grate onto the base of the grill and the base of the grill onto the leg supports and the whole thing end up as rubble on the ground? According to NIST, things are operating under new phenomenons and we can’t trust the physical laws pre 09-11-01 anymore…
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Why do people keep insisting that buildings are supposed to fall sideways? Only the most beefy buildings (eg. grain silos, some factory buildings) tip over. Skyscrapers are designed to hold UP their projected load, not maintain their structure if they get unbalanced and tip sideways. Did the federal building in OK City tip over when just the supports on one side were taken out? No, it fell straight down.
I’m not trying to say one way or another if the WTC7 collapse was intentional. I’m just saying that the lack of horizontal movement is NOT evidence of a controlled demolition.
Ignorant, crazy conjecture is the reason why nobody takes the 911Truth movement seriously.
Take Gregory Fegel’s statement: ‘This is particularly true when an explosive shearing force, such as a controlled demolition, has pulverized the building’s concrete and reduced most of it to dust.’. This is ignorant. The explosives used in controlled demo only cut the columns and kick them out of the way. The impact with the ground does 99.99+% of the damage.
Or Aaron’s: ‘To explain how campfires made a steel beam heat then contract and lose its concrete support.’. You use jet fuel in your campfires? You think that steel beams keep their full strength until they become molten metal? My old buck stove (steel fireplace insert) could heat up steel fireplace grates hot enough that just the weight of wood logs would make the half-inch steel bend down to the ground. Did it melt? No. But it certainly collapsed four inches into a useless pile of twisted 1/2″ steel. Ever hear of ‘wrought iron’?
newfy777: ‘.there is only one thing on this planet that can turn steel to dust like that,and that is a nuclear reaction.’ OMFG, now there was ’steel dust’ and 9-11 was a nuclear attack.
Mike: ‘I’m interested in where it went immediately after the towers vacated their 110 stories (whatever this volume is) of air above and ended up on the ground.’ A building has to weigh about the same as the earth excavated for it’s basement or it will slowly sink down or float up. Therefore, any tall building will collapse down mostly into it’s basement because the packed volume of the building is roughly equal to the excavated volume of the basement. Finally a smart question; too many truthers assume that most of the building disintegrated to dust.
And even if WTC7 WAS ‘pulled’, why is it automatically a pre-911, planned demo. I see, the plan was to fly planes into WTC 1&2 to cover up a controlled demo that would collapse into WTC7, starting an uncontrollable fire WTC7 that they could use as a cover to blow it up for the insurance money. Rube Goldberg would be proud of that one. Why not just plant explosives all around and blame it on terrorists afterwards. It would be much easier and more plausable for the building owners, the CIA, NYPD or FBI to pull off.
Maybe all the NYFD was either dead or unable to get to WTC7 to fight the fire in a meaningful way. Maybe there was no water pressure. Maybe the building was already surrounded by debris and toxic dust. Maybe everyone on-site assumed it was suicide to go into the building and spray water until what they foresaw as an inevitable collapse. Maybe they DID think it was safer to improvise a controlled collapse than risk having WTC7 collapse on an adjacent building and spread the fire and destruction. Again. Maybe the owner DID approve the demo. Maybe they lied about it because nobody wants to take financial responsibility for destroying a skyscraper and it’s contents. Maybe a post-collapse rubble furnace of broken concrete, office furniture, paper, plastic and buried cars actually can get hot enough to melt steel.
Or maybe the large concrete slabs heated up, expanded, and pushed their columns out of alignment with, or at an angle to the ones below, causing the building to collapse for lack of vertical support, just like what they do in a controlled implosion. Or maybe they could have if the NYFD hadn’t maybe imploded them first, in order to bring down the building more safely. But we’ll never know because the people involved don’t want to subject themselves to the ensuing flood of lawsuits they would get for doing their job in the best way possible.
I’ll buy conspiracy after the fact. Nobody in their right mind would want any responsibility for any part of 9-11. Conspiracy before the fact? I don’t believe our government could conceive such a convoluted plot, never mind pull it off without a string of witnesses to testify against them.
If you can’t be rational, go home.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:38 pm
That is way too funny!
Or it stands for : No Intelligent Scientific Theories
Maybe I’ll just cook pasta….Oh wait, the controlled efficient blue hot flames will melt the stove grate and the weight of the pot with water, on that grate, will pancake downward through my stove and all will end up on the floor in one big pile of rubble.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:47 pm
aye
tritium.
must have been something in the sheetrock.
inside job, outside job, who cares?
All you need know about 911 is that it absolutly did not happen
the way we have been told.
Years of disinfo and re writing reports after they are proven unsound and untrue are a mainstay.
If you have no unanswered questions about 911, you havnt looked at 911 in any unbiased fashion.
Its important to gather ALL the info, if it isnt logical or refutes known theories of physics and mathmatics, it most likely is bullsh*t-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V5iCUBEUx4
about 2:50 watch the collapse-
God Bless America
GS
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Again, whether they fell sideways, straight down, why so fast? With virtually no resistance.
Egots, opposing questions that we have been through before and answered. So very tiring.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Have a good night all and keep using your minds, whatever your viewpoints are
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Play it safe tonight, Mike. Have a cold, childish bowl of AlphaBits.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
We will dine on your corpses, you brainwashed swallowers of Alex Jones’ feces! ALL POWER TO THE STATE OF ISRAEL!
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:07 pm
50% of people still have no idea that three buildings fell in New York on 911. Time to do some mailbox dropping. Buy some pamphlets and canvas some neighborhoods. Copy some DVD’s and make people aware who would have had no idea otherwise. The war does not end on the internet. This is the year that we must make noise.
We need people to know that a new investigation is needed. Make up 100 packages with the info. A video and a pamphlet and maybe a personalized message of why you feel that America and it’s people deserve better… why we deserve a new investigation. Ask them if they have questions after they see the material to pass it on to a friend or neighbor. 100 will become 200 will become 400…. We need the people who would not find this info for themselves. If 1000 of us do this… if 10,000 of us do this… people will soon be passing this info to other who say… “Yeah, I’ve seen this.” and that’s when they will start to realize that we have the numbers to restore peace and order to this great country and the world as soon as we root out those willing to do anything to maintain their power over those not capable or willing to do such things.
It is still in our hands!
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:08 pm
S Kahler, just to set the record straight, the OK. city building had half of its mass blown off by numerous devices (pssst, not by a single crazy white man in a truck either). It was demolished after yet another very limited investigation.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Israel can toss my salad….
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:12 pm
“Why do people keep insisting that buildings are supposed to fall sideways?”
Because that’s what they do when struck by lateral forces, unless they’ve been wired before hand with explosives. Why do knuckle heads like you keep insisting that something happened THREE times on September 11 that never happened before or since? Why do you keep insisting that reality changed on September 11 and then changed back again the next day, and nobody noticed? Why do you keep pretending that the elevator doors weren’t blown out seconds before the so-called collapse? In other words, why, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, do you keep insisting on the reality of the Tooth Fairy?
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:13 pm
S. Kahler,
Since Prison Planet for some reason does not give comment numbers as Infowars does, you must figure out where your comment is that I am referring to. That is not too hard though.
I like all the thought you put into your other possibilities as to what might have happened on 9/11. Obviously even you must know that some of what you say is illogical timewise, but it is good as food for thought.
Your idea about the detonations being planted at the time of the fires has been ruled out years ago by the experts saying that something like that would take months to set up. Now, I would have accepted if anyone from their side said that charges were standard to have in such a complex just incase of such and emergeny and for safety sake the buildings would have to be demolitioned to keep control over the inevitable collapse. Could that have still been that way and yet as you say, they will not admit it because of lawsuits? Maybe. That I can see. How about you?
The other thing bothers me quite a lot because I have met so many people who have said the same thing as you at the end. I cannot believe that you cannot believe that our government can be so corrupt. Why not? What is so special about our government, which are just people, over some other government whom apparently you believe could do such an “attack”? We have hundreds of millions of people in our country and you are trying to say that you cannot believe that there might not be a few who have achieved great power to do such a dastardly deed? That makes me wonder about the rest of what you said, but as I said at the beginning, what you say makes sense and I can see that you spent time bringing out all those other possibilities….good for food for thought.
Rhonda
PS: How about this for food for thought? Guiliani was the local kingpin that the federal government said that someone was necessary to pull 9/11 off about a week after that day for about a week afterwards and then never said those qualifications again. Of course he is an American, so that rules him out as well as anyone else who was an American that day? Probably. Oh well, just a thought….food for thought.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Big day tomorrow.
Going to watch this industrial building being demolished. Shouldn’t take long. They are going to use jet fuel. They don’t plan on burning it uniformly through-out the building though. They believe that the spread of fire (Ever watch a forest fire in California sweep across the land? Where it ends up is always hotter than where it started. Has something to do with combusting things that have a tendency to burn and then the fire consumes that to move onto the next fuel source) is the way to bring it down. This way you have steel beams that were once the hottest, but then they cool as the fire spreads and then those newer beams become the hotter. They like this because it doesn’t weaken all the columns, beams etc at the same rate. Most have argued that a symmetrical heating of all those columns and beams is the way to cause buildings to collapse in their foot print. Like a controlled demolition. They said: “Nahh, just look at the towers and WTC7. All we need is burning jet fuel starting at one place to move on down to another place. Sure the point where the fire first started would be cooler than where it ends up, and the science has always shown that this leads to asymmetrical collapses. Well, we aren’t going to spend all that money on explosives for a symmetrical collapse, when we can just use fire from a jet fuel combustion” I said, wow, must be a new phenomenon discovered
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:20 pm
The “Big Lie” is a Propaganda Technique: Defined as a lie, so colossal, that no one would believe that someone could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously.
“The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.” ~ J. Edgar Hoover
It really is very easy to control the human sheeple of this world. Repeat a lie 10 times and even if the sheeple hear the truth 1 time, the repetition of the lie will prevail on the sheeple. Stupid Sheeple.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Lord Balto and Rhonda, thanks for addressing S Kahler. Lord Balto, you addressed Kahler’s notion that the law of physics had to have changed on 9-11 to support the governments riculous claims of what happened, and, then changed back afterwards. Thank goodness, I had some worries about cooking on my grill or house stoves tonight. I’m relieved that the normal laws of this physical world changed back. Thanks for the support Wakeup. I think I will try cooking with metal after-all. The cereal advice was good, but, Tricks are For Kids, of simple undeveloped minds.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:30 pm
It’s obvious now that the fire-breathing dragon living near column 79 must have contributed to the collapse of WTC 7. Since these dragons are quite large, it must have had it’s nest at the larger end of the trapezoid building. It’s all becoming clear now. We do not need a war on terror, but a war on fire-breathing dragons. I’ve always said that they are no good.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Its Nazi Germany and you are my fellow citizens living with me in the FatherLand. We hear of people being sent to concentration camps, starvations, shootings at the hands of firing squads, gas chambers, crematoriums etc etc. We discuss this and tell one another that this is so barbaric that it can’t be taking place. After all, they are Germans we are accusing here of doing these things. We are Germans. No, No, No. I need good reasons to believe such crazy talk. For now, I’ll choose to listen to our government….
Many years later: How did we allow such a thing to happen? Why didn’t we question whether evil was really running our country? Why? Why?
My friends, I met an old German lady many years ago, who related this story to me. I found it interesting!
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Chair Throwing buffoon: Maybe GW was reading Puff the Magic Dragon in that classroom and not some goat story.
That was so funny, thanks for making me laugh.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:57 pm
AO: “Many people insist that vast amounts of people “were in on it” and they all hate America…(mmmmmm mmmmmmmmmm)
Do you realize that your accusing 1000’s of people of mass murder or being part of mass murder?”
It is far more likely that 1000s of people are deliberately staying out of it. People like NYFD, structural engineers, physics experts, government officials, etc, etc are purposefully not speaking out. They are mostly likely honest upstanding good people but are unwilling to speak out against the government because to do so is suicide for their career and possibly their family and themself. I wouldn’t accuse NYPD of being participants in the attack, certainly most of them must see the same red flags that we do. I have spoken with engineering professors at Ohio State University. People with a lot of knowledge of structural engineering. Because they think it will do no good, because they don’t want to hurt their career, because they don’t want to seem “crazy”, and mostly because they don’t want to believe it these good people don’t say anything.
Also, what is this energy crunch you’re talking about and how is it that it caused substandard steel to be used in buildings that were built over a period of about 15 years? (WTC7 was built about 10 years after 1 and 2)
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Chair Throwing baffoon, this is making sense. Maybe we are having a secret war against fire bleathing dragons and the government is just using a cover story of Islamofascists. I mean, our King is even George. The mythology has stated that St George slayed the Dragon. Wow, GW really isn’t evil, he is a saint riding a white horse doing battle against that firey serpent.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi.....dragon.jpg
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Have a good night
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Mike, I would highly suggest and actually beg you to watch the below movie. I am just awakening to many things over the past 1 year. If you think 9/11 was the first Psychological Operation done to humans you are not being resonable. Be sure to keep an open mind as you would expect one to do with 9/11, by using only reason and logic. Power is knowledge and knowledge is protected (in some places with legal laws):
Holocaust Truth and Lies, as told by an Honest Jewish Man:
http://video.google.com/videos.....mp;tab=wv#
Want another? Go check out the dirt coming off the Lunar Rover and how it acts in what is supposed to be zero atmosphere.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Sorry Mike, here is the actual movie title to google since the movie link is not allowed:
“David Cole – The Truth Behind The Gates Of Auschwitz 1 of 2″
62 minutes
EXCELLENT. If anyone wants to open their eyes further, please watch.
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I would have to say there some government ops posting here and we know who they are. If there is nothing to hide, why does’nt the government release all the video footage of the Pentagon strike. Gosh I wonder why…
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:45 pm
I have been thinking about this for a couple of days….how about this, if John Gotti would have been caught on tape saying…
“I remember getting a call from the Colombo family, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to get to the guy, and I said, maybe the smartest thing to do is “whack him” (industry term for murder). And they made that decision to “whack” and then we watched the guy die.”
would the fed have used that statement as evidence in a trial for murder?….most likely
Now take a look at Silverstein’s statement about WTC7…
“I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, ‘We’ve had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is “pull it” (industry term for demolition). And they made that decision to “pull” and then we watched the building collapse.” –Larry Silverstein
hmmmm…
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:54 pm
You foolish gentiles are not smart enough or courageous enough to defeat us. We are the master race. This has been pronounced not by some pathetic racist gentiles but by God himself. Accept your inferiority and bow down to the nation of Israel and maybe we will permit you to live as our slave. LMFAO!
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:38 pm
You fake nation of Israel will be destroyed.
Jeremiah 31:27-37 27 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the YHWH, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast. 28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith YHWH.29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children’s teeth are set on edge.30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge. 31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith YHWH: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith YHWH, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know YHWH: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. 35 Thus saith YHWH, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; YHWH of hosts is his name: 36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith YHWH, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 37 Thus saith YHWH; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith YHWH.
After the reign of Shlomo the nation of Israel was divided into 2 houses known as the house of Israel and the house of Judah. The house of Israel was taken into captivity by the Assirians never to be heard from again until these last days. You so called Jews are nothing more than Edomites and mark my words you will be destroyed with your false nation of Israel. Only the true Yahudim along with the house of Israel will survive only those that don’t follow the false system of the beast.
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:56 pm
I was a tenant at WTC1 from 1978 to 1980. The ONLY issue people should focus on as the “key issue” is: When the towers were proposed for construction, many New Yorkers were concerned that if the towers fell, they could take-out twenty or thirty other buildings. So, with that in mind the towers were built around a steel “center” grouping of massive steel support columns that in the unlikely event the towers were going down, the floors would pancake on each other straight down around the steel center core. The towers were built to do that.
Here is the key to it all: As designed and in the event of a collapse, the steel cores of WTC1 and WTC2 would be LEFT STANDING. There is NO WAY in hell the center core would come down unless it was demolished level by level to fall with the collapsing floors. No ifs; and; or buts! End of story! Period!
I am really getting tiered of watching people being played for idiots in propaganda plays to confuse valid; indisputable; facts.
This ONE FACT brought forward here is indisputable. It establishes the towers steel center core was demolished to drop with the collapsing floors. The design would have left the steel core intact in the event of collapse.
If you let someone drag you off to speculation and theories it is very counterproductive to the sniper bullet kill shot! The clowns (on the inside) that pulled this off have been laughing all the way to the bank each and every day since September of 2001 without any consequence.
Let this ONE POINT take em down… Make it the key circulating fact across the globe!
There are many other issues that are valid, but none greater than this one fact and this one fact is incorporated into the original design of the towers there for all to see.
It is time that the crap that pulled this off that have laughed all the way up until 2008 gets their asses drug out of their offices and executed on the streets.
Who set up the demolition in advance of WTC 1, 2, and 7?
This is NOT an “if” question, it is “A FACT OF OCCURRENCE” to be answered. Get the people that set the demolition and let the last words out of their mouths be who instructed them to do it.
Walter Burien
Prior tenant WTC1 Suite 2743
Web Site: http://CAFR1.com
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Hey B-Dog and Stephen, wake up, man! This one idiot posts a deliberate diversion from the topic of the WTC7 sham, and you guys fall for it? C’mon, my brothers, stay focused and question one’s motives before you get suckered into responding to these High School debate team tactics.
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:24 pm
ARE YOU KIDDING IF YOU BELIEVE THE CRAP ABOUT THE FIRES WEAKENING THE STRUCTURE(BLDG 7)I’VE GOT SOME BEACH FRONT PROPERTY IN AZ I’D LIKE TO SELL YOU. BOY THEM PIN HEAD’S THAT COME UP WITH THIS SHIT MUST BE ON DRUGS. HOW STUPID DO THESE IDIOTS THINK WE ARE…..WAKE UP FOLKS BEFORE IT’S TO LATE!!!!!! ACTION IN AUSTIN
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Thanks WakeUp your are right on.
August 23rd, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Mike,
Just to let you know that I saw your acknowledgement of responding to S. Kahler. You are welcome.
Rhonda
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:06 pm
I Remember, for weeks after the 9/11 all the firefighters and rescuers did not have enough boots. The boots would melt within a short while when working because of the Tremendous Heat under the immediate surface of the “pile”. Remember when they were asking for donations of fireproof boots? I remember watching on TV, the machines would dig and bring up molten lava-type metal, it was the creepiest thing I have ever seen.
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:19 pm
@ ken:
What is your deal, calling everyone who doesn’t share you exact take on everything a disinfo agent? It appears that you call people that even when you haven’t read enough of their stuff to be even remotely prepared to make such a judgement. Calling anyone and everyone a disinfo agent is rude and disruptive, bro’.
Read some of my blogs and then tell me I’m a disinfo agent. Sheesh!
http://kennysideshow.blogspot......ravda.html
http://www.oregontruthalliance.org/node/472
http://gregoryfegel.sulekha.co.....ldiers.htm
http://gregoryfegel.sulekha.co.....rorism.htm
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:30 pm
does it matter what the NIST says ? Do you know the brother of the head of Homeland Security had a hand in this lie ? The owner of the lease of the building (Silverstein) is on record as saying “We PULLED the Building…”
Sine qua non.
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:49 pm
To.
You would make a more convincing Jewish supremacist if you learnt that real Jews write “G-d” rather than “God”.
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:20 pm
great what can we about this 911 is a big lie something must be done about it
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:49 pm
People should start writing e-mails and letters to celebrities and ask why they aren’t doing anything about the world!! ..only few have said anything about 9-11 INSIDEJOB.
Polite e-mails with say, YouTube links..
the silent ones and the supposed “more enlightent” people who you/we could write to:
Madonna
Bono
Bob Dylan ..nothing wrong whit the gov. nowadays huh?
Roger Waters…
P-diddy
Pearl Jam
TOOL
Rage against the MAchine guys
System of a down
..any one else?! i bet there are tons
Who’s hot in Hollywood?
Richard Gere is a buddhist..
Susan Sarandon
Tim Robbins
Wesley Snipes ..should be quite pissed off
Morgan Freeman
Johnny Depp
Keanu Reeves
..to name a few
..basicly anyone who has been “pro” something..i’m sure they’d like to be pro freedom and peace too.
These are the people who can reach people, you know?!
Alot of people sit infront of computers all day and write a lot, so how about writing a nice and polite e-mail about 9-11 TRUTH to these people.
9/11 Chronicles Part One: Truth Rising :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-yscpNIxjI
Could be a good idea to send this link to them so they’d know it’s mostly the young un-known people who have to do all the work and put them selves on the line while they make their movies or recording ther upcoming album
Write to celebs.
August 24th, 2008 at 12:04 am
O.K. so a few of us seem to know what really happened on 9/11 and who’s behind it all….so what happens next? What do we do know? Wait? Act?? Keep on Talking and complaining on the Internet?? I’m starting to believe that we are loosing the war on TRUTH. We are ALL talk and NO action! BU$HCO ARE UNTOUCHABLE! Why should I care??? I’m NOT even American!! Personally and financially I’m not loosing much. I have No children here and I vacation alot and I’m having the best time of my life and I’m personally not loosing much….It’s You that I’m worried about…Your children will grow up NOT knowing the free America that I got a taste of..Should I worry or should I just say, The Heck with you!
August 24th, 2008 at 12:09 am
oh tell me more about this pilot that shot down flight 93 i have always thought the 4th plane was meant to hit wtc7 therefore explaining its collapse. great story just give some links and the like to back it up, i’m keen as on adding this to my reptoire of facts on 9/11. nice work mate.
August 24th, 2008 at 12:30 am
Did Planes Really Crash Into the WTC Towers on 911?
Contrary to NIST & the US Government, there is overwhelming evidence to conclude that the planes seen on TV were the result of SFX special effects (TV fakery).
Many try to suppress this obvious fact, but to exclude other theories out of hand w/o examination is not only disingenuous, it’s simply denial (a defence mechanism) and only results in a misinformed, skewed opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0XrU70Lc-U
There were no planes entering the WTC Towers on 911. Perhaps all the related films about 911 produced before and since were made to condition the public into acceptance of the official “planes” fantasy. Any discussion of planes on 911, passengers, hijackers, etc. all continue to help keep the fantasy alive.
Believing the government’s fairytale of planes colliding with the Towers is the main problem w/ fully understanding 911. The media was broadcasting fake, manipulated images of planes. Superimposing a plane on 911 was done w/ Wescam technology; it provided a single “live” feed from which all the TV networks broadcast. Other videos & images started to appear in the days, weeks & months following 911. All of them have anomalies & impossibilities which can only be explained by excluding planes.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xpUKwpwSRwc
Real planes would have been a potential liability for the perps on 911. It was easier to control the outcome of the event with much less risk by using the media to broadcast fake imagery. Real jets might miss their targets, get shot down, suffer pilot or computer errors, destroy or prematurely detonate any explosives, passengers could have overtaken the hijackers, and/or the plane might not inflict enough perceived damage to make a collapse believable.
A single fact which cannot be refuted is that a hollow aluminum plane (especially fragile wings) cannot slice through steel beams and concrete without any damage to the plane. News footage showing an airliner gliding into a Tower without any resistance is a cartoon. Aluminum planes are not built for impact and crumple immediately upon contact with solid objects; even a small bird can rip through a jet’s wing.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MCVwuf_AMFs
Furthermore, a large speeding jet’s vortex trails behind it creating a highly active atmosphere which follows in its path. Had a real plane impacted a WTC Tower, real film footage would have recorded the airliner’s vortex interacting with and violently dissipating the smoke from the alleged crash and the adjacent North Tower. No vortex literally means no planes on 911 (TV fakery).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlj1mVD2-HM
During the South Tower “impact”, fake TV footage shows a WTC Tower sealing itself around the plane during the alleged penetration. Still another too incredible to believe anomaly is the width of the plane’s purported gash didn’t match the width of a Boeing 757’s wing span. Another widely publicized video shot by Scott Myers shows the forward fuselage of the “jet” exiting the South Tower, though other shots later reveal no exit hole.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NCLL6h6-vvc
To consider the media footage showing a plane slicing thru steel and concrete as reality is ludicrous. There were no planes; only spoofed images, manipulated witnesses and falsified evidence. America please wake up; the media was a complicit partner that was in on the crime from the beginning. In fact, the TV psyop 911 couldn’t have been pulled off without the mass media’s assistance.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eoxaU16MntM
Actually “no planes on 911″ is the only explanation that makes any sense. There are far too many disturbing questions left unanswered which only TV fakery can address.
Besides all the other impossibilities mentioned, why are there several “hijackers” still alive; some are even suing the US government to recover their reputation and stolen identity.
Why have so many of the purported plane “victims” not been listed in the Social Security Death Index? …and their families not claimed their death benefits.
Why are there missing passenger lists and zero so-called Middle Eastern hijacker names on the flight manifest?
Why in the entire history of aviation has a plane never disappeared from a crash – yet on 911, four of them did in a single day? All plane parts are numbered; not one plane part from 911 has been identified by its number.
How could supposedly inexperienced “pilots” who couldn’t even fly a Cessna…
* threaten & subdue everyone on board a large airliner
* break into the locked cockpits w/ their hands
* kill all the ex-military pilots and copilots
…then navigate a large Boeing jetliner above the clouds all over several states without airport tower assistance, with nav systems & radios turned off, and fly with pinpoint accuracy into a building that they couldn’t even see?
It’s common knowledge amongst pilots that a Boeing 757 cannot fly at 500+ MPH at sea level – the air is too thick. That’s an airliner’s cruising speed attained at high 30,000+ ft. altitudes.
You can call Boeing; even they admit that – and they have been recorded in phone conversations recently saying so.
When an airliner is close to the ground it’s either taking off or landing. If forced to throttle to cruising speed at low altitude, it would break apart in mid-air.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=x2upl977dsY
Exposing “no planes on 911″ is probably the most important story to people beyond chemtrails, depleted uranium poisoning and nanotech genocide.
Americans are TV hypnotized, drugged up, dumbed down and so utterly dependent that in general they are incapable of critical thought and are disinterested in discovering how the media is adversely affecting their lives.
No planes on 911 and deception by the media is the Holy Grail of 911. It marks the beginning of an Orwellian double-speak mind-set which is now accepted as normal by the populace.
No-planes on 911 is highly important as it exposes the real perps behind this mass murder and offers justice to the thousands of people killed that day.
Without the covert deception by the media in collusion with the enemy in control of America’s military intelligence, 911 could not have happened.
The media was directly involved in 911 and together with a criminal government has helped diminish Americans’ freedoms and launch unending wars against innocent nations.
Don’t even consider making another comment on 911 till you have watched the “September Clues” video series:
http://www.livevideo.com/video.....part1.aspx
With so much evidence pointing to collusion between the military industrial complex, the US government and especially the media, very few have sought relief in the court systems, or via conventional mass media. Morgan Reynolds has filed numerous suits in federal court to no avail. His latest attempt and subsequent appeal were both summarily squashed before having even been properly heard. You can read the details on his website.
http://nomoregames.net/index.php?page=911
If one seeks only that evidence which fits the official explanation, then that is what you will find. That’s not science, it’s not objective thinking, it’s not even good common sense.
It is impossible in the real world for a plane to behave in such manner as per the official account. So long as you continue to deny that one simple concept you will be forever lost in endless pursuit of an answer that will never come.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/.....ng_videos/
# # #
August 24th, 2008 at 12:39 am
I just checked NIST’s website…I myself study Electrical Engineering at UC Davis…and find many strange items in need of questioning about NIST…
1.) Aren’t we trying to find out how exactly the WTC7 collapsed?
–>Then why is NIST proving and stating openly how they say it happened and then provide how they say it couldn’t have happened which happens to be the claims made by outside NIST Engineers.
2.)Why would they be researching how it couldn’t have happened from explosions?
–> When we needed a man on the moon, excuse me, now that we still need a man on the moon, Engineers will not start by trying to figure out how it couldn’t happen in certain ways…it’s irrelevant.
ie: How do we wire this circuit for ideal power consumption?
Answer: Well, I know if we poor cement all over it, it wouldn’t work…
Engineers find answers based on natural physical phenomenon that lead to well defined outcomes and predictions backed by factual data.
Politicians try to instate facts by disproving others because their motives are self-attained and kept their own as long as they are the only correct person. There’s no team of presidents, politicians, Senators, governors, mayors they all have to kill or be killed.
There’s rarely ever a single Engineer, we hunt in packs, teams of Engineers all with one motive and critical awareness of simply how to make better what it is we’re dealing with…we don’t have the infinitely large amount of time or resources to engineer how things don’t work, it doesn’t better anything to point out how someone else is wrong, we don’t play that childish roll, we seek to better whatever we lay hands on.
August 24th, 2008 at 12:53 am
You want to see planes?
Take any OFFICIAL FOOTAGE only, no youtube, get it from the OFFICIAL ABC, CBS, etc..source of footage because only they don’t lie…or excuse me, they air the OFFICIAL meaning the only correct none adulterated footage…of a plane colliding with any of the towers…ONLY OFFICIAL FOOTAGE remember…now watch the plane hit and enter the building, if you can slow it down, of course it won’t let you, so you have to watch it, record your display with another program, load what you recorded into your favorite media player and play it slowly…now, pause any of the OFFICIAL FOOTAGE when any of the collision show:
A PLANE HALF SUBMERGED IN THE TOWER, ONE WING IN ONE WING OUT, AND HALF THE PLANE STILL OUTSIDE THE TOWER’S PRIMETER…BUT NOTE, THERE’S NO DAMAGE DONE TO THE BUILDING YET, IF YOU DON’T GET IT THE FIRST TIME, TRY AGAIN, I HAVE SUCCESSFULLY PAUSED EVERY OFFICIAL CLIP WITH A PLANE HALF IN HALF OUT AND NO DAMAGE TO BUILDING, YET…
THERE’S YOUR OFFICIAL PLANES FOR YOU…doesn’t take massive conspiracy research, in fact, for those biased against us conspiracy terrorist people, it has nothing to do with conspiracies, just take what you believe is the footage and pause it at that moment, if you can explain how the plane bypassed matter by enter halfway into a concrete steel reinforced building without even shattering a window, yet…then you can fend your arguments that the planes did it, until then, keep staring at that clip and just think this…
I’m not pointing figures at who did what, but the towers did fall and why would the US Government be lying about its OFFICIAL FOOTAGE? All I can is, why would they lie? Why would they have to? Lying under oath, it’s illegal, falsifying evidence is illegal, why is US Government doing this?
Answer these questions. That’s it.
August 24th, 2008 at 1:00 am
Um, you should share your life stories with Opera, maybe she’ll give you some answer, if you think the government abusing its power against its own people isn’t bad, well, then for you it isn’t. Now, escape from your body, and enter the realm of other people, because you got to where you are because other people made it possible, now reflect that care towards someone other than you, sure you’re happy, but the parents of lost son or daughter to this War in Iraq, may not be as happy as you are, maybe even never will be as happy as you are. Your selfish thought process shouldn’t allow you to comprehend what I’m telling you, just go on and be happy, but when it’s you suffering one day…don’t yell out for help, because everyone else is vacationing and doesn’t care about you…that’s if we all had your mind set.
August 24th, 2008 at 2:15 am
Ignore the “no plane” fruit cakes they are just trying to spread bad theories so they can debunk them later and try to make truthers look like idiots, either that or they are truly crazy either way just act like they arent here and they will leave eventually.
August 24th, 2008 at 2:26 am
Lord Balto: ‘Because that’s what they do when struck by lateral forces’
What lateral forces struck WTC7? The only lateral forces to hit WTC1&2 did so long before the collapse. The sideways momentum from each plane was dissapated to the ground within moments. There was no lateral force acting on the building at the time of collapse, only the vertical force of gravity acting on a structurally weakened building.
Whether the buildings were imploded or collapsed, what could have possibly given them the lateral momentum to fall over sideways without collapsing? Give ANY example of a high rise structure that has ever tipped over like a broomstick. Show me ANY study that shows a steel & concrete high rise can be knocked over intact. They all collapse like a house of cards because they’re mostly air.
The only tall buildings that can be knocked over intact are ultra-heavy-duty things like grain silos, smokestacks or cooling towers that have a thick continuous structure designed to take massive loads, heat extremes or chemical corrosion. They all tip over like a Jenga tower because they’re mostly stone.
Your arguments boil down to the following:
Only willful tampering with a skyscraper could allow an uncontrolled fire to burn it down.
Uncontrolled fires on even a dozen floors of a skyscraper could not damage it enough to make it collapse. (the sprinkler systems are just there for show)
You THINK if a skyscraper DID burn down, it could only fall sideways like a broomstick, so if it collapses straight down, it couldn’t have been the fire, therefore it was demo-ed.
Moving off-topic to reply to a few other posts…
Mike:
If you think that steel can’t be softened and made malleable with intense fire, then you know NOTHING about fire and steel. Have you ever heard of an ironsmith, forge, hammer, tongs and anvil? How does the anvil, hammer and tongs not melt? Do you have any clue how iron rivets used to be heated in iron stoves and driven into steel beams to build bridges or skyscrapers like the Empire State Building? Would you like to see my steel fireplace grate (solid 1/2″ steel bars) that got bent flat by the weight of a few wood logs while inside my 1/4″ thick steel fireplace insert burning WOOD? The fire in the WTC rubble burned for 3 weeks, how hot do you think that could get? The laws of physics didn’t change on 9-11, you just don’t understand them.
Others:
It’s not that I have any faith in our elected and appointed officials. It’s not that I think our government has been fully forthright in it’s report of the events of 9-11. It’s not that I think president Cheney wouldn’t stage a horrific attack on American soil to achieve his political aims. It’s not that I don’t think Bush, Cheney and Silverstein (almost Giuliani too) have profitted from the attacks. It’s just that the number of disciplines, the string of events, the number of people and the amount of secrecy required to use plane crashes and fire as a coverup for demo-ing buildings are incredibly complex. Willful or dumb negligence on the part of Bush\Cheney\CIA is certainly believable. Alleging that CIA operatives were the real hijackers is shocking, but vaguely plausible. Alleging that Bin Laden acted in league with Bush/Cheney/CIA to run the hi-jacking is the ultimate in cynicism and would be the biggest betrayal since Judas. But the ‘airplane strikes as a coverup for demolitions’ theory is just too complicated to even dream up, nevermind carrying out.
Let’s just review the FULL plan that 9-11 conspiracy theorists claim was created by Bush, Cheney, CIA or Giuliani so that we could go to war in the middle east or Silverstein could demo ‘his’ buildings for the insurance money.
1992-3:
Bush 41 gets six muslim CIA operatives to make gas-fertilizer truck bomb.
Clinton wins election.
Plan moves forward.
Put on truck, park in WTC basement near a column.
Detonate to collapse building.
Failed.
Get Bin Laden to take credit for this failed plan.
2000-1:
While under Clinton administration, start planning new WTC attack for when Bush 43 takes office.
‘Win’ election.
Covertly pre-cut columns and plant explosives on upper floor columns of WTC 1&2. Engineer the controlled demolition to make sure that debris from the blasts in WTC 1&2 will completely crush adjacent buildings but just severely damage and cause fires in WTC7.
Covertly pre-cut colums and plant explosives on the first floor (or 13th?) of WTC7.
Covertly plant explosives in the newly reconstructed part of the Pentagon. (misdirection attack, or CIA hates that the millitary gets all the glory for fighting the wars that the CIA starts)
Train 20 muslim CIA operatives to hijack four airplanes and suicide attack three buildings. Or was plane #4 supposed to somehow hit the 13th floor of WTC7?
Simultaneously hijack four planes full of people.
Fly planes directly into the pre-determined floors of WTC 1&2 that have been wired with explosives.
Destroy pipes to sprinkler system so the smokescreen fires can’t be put out and firefighters can’t do anything.
Fly plane into Pentagon to make sure Americans think all the attacks are from terrorists; at the exact time of impact, detonate large explosion pre-set at the exact impact location.
Have airforce shoot down fourth airplane flown by CIA operatives. (misdirection attack)
With firefighters and workers still in the building:
Simultaneously detonate explosives on the floors that are consumed in fire.
Twice.
When debris from WTC1 damages WTC7, start fires throughout building.
Wait six hours for complete evacuation of WTC7 and blow up building with pre-set explosives.
Get Bin-Laden to take credit for this cunning plan.
Collect insurance money.
Profit!
or
Go to war in Iraq.
Profit!
[and I haven't even factored in the remotely controlled empty plane theorists, the no-plane theorists, or the pentagon was actually hit by a cruise missile, etc.]
If you actually think that the above scenario is the likely one, then you’re hurting the cause of the people who just want to know the full truth of what happened on 9-11. You make us all look like barking morons. You helped destroy Ron Paul’s credibility by associating yourself with him. You’re hurting America.
August 24th, 2008 at 2:31 am
Has anyone noticed that the diagram, I assume provided by the NIST has been flipped twice? If you look at the picture and then the diagram you would assume that 79 was one of the closest columns to WTC 1, but in fact and if you look at the shape of the roof picture compared to the digram, you will see that 79 was one of the furthest columns. Look at the shadow cast in the picture. It’s on 15 and 16 exterior. What you can not see from the picture is WTC 6 which stands between 1 and 7, and admitted it was only 9 stories tall, but it still stood and you would think would have taken the major blunt of any impact from WTC 1 catching on fire or falling. I am just a lawyer not an expert but how did the fire get to 79 and burn so hot the it caused the collapse of the building? I tend to stick by logic that tells me that the greatest cause of damage is at the core of the cause. All things being the same and unless there is an outside cause for an intensified state, a fire will burn hottest at the point it was started and only to the temp that the core substance will sustain. Can someone please explain to me how 79, when you look at the diagram correctly, could be the core start of a fire that lead to the never before imprint collapse of a total building when 79 is in fact one of the most distant columns to the initial source of fire?
August 24th, 2008 at 3:40 am
S Kahler,
When your at home burning square miles of carpeting, tons of plastic laminates, 10s of thousands maybe millions of reams of paper, 1000s of office chair cushions, 1000’s of computer monitors, keyboards, mice, 1000s of office cubicle panels (covered in fabric)…. How hot does it get in your fireplace?? You want to sound like an expert but you know nothing about fully engaged fires, temperature and the like. If you burn even a fraction of what I mentioned in 7 hours in your fireplace you will burn down your house and possibly your neighbors house down wind.
August 24th, 2008 at 3:59 am
re: S Kahler
Your arguments are full of red herrings, blind assumptions, and hyperbole. Your knowledge of physics is less than you claim. You assume that every person who is participating would need to be in on the whole thing and use this as an argument for how it could not have occurred. THINK! If you were to try and pull off something like this would you tell all your patsies and useful idiots what you were doing, or simply manipulate them into doing what you want for some other ostensible reason?
Detailed comments below:
> Give ANY example of a high rise structure that has ever tipped over like a broomstick. Show me ANY study that shows a steel & concrete high rise can be knocked over intact. They all collapse like a house of cards because they’re mostly air.
You see, this is the weakest part of your argument, because there ARE no comparable building collapses, even in cases of uncontrolled fires.
I for one would not expect such a building to fall “intact”, but I *would* expect the weakened part of the building to collapse and the rest of the building to fall over into the direction of the failed section.
> If you think that steel can’t be softened and made malleable with intense fire, then you know NOTHING about fire and steel.
I don’t know Mike’s opinion, but I do know something about this. An old style forge is a forced air fire. You need to force air through it so that you get nearly complete combustion, and even then you can’t melt the iron/steel, but only soften it. The fires in WTC7 were clearly not of this type, and it not even imaginable where the forced air would have come from. But we KNOW that there was molten steel in the ruins! Unless you can come up with some way an oxygen starved hydrocarbon fire can melt steel, then the new report doesn’t cut it.
> The fire in the WTC rubble burned for 3 weeks, how hot do you think that could get? The laws of physics didn’t change on 9-11, you just don’t understand them.
Here you expose your ignorance. The fire does not get hotter over time (unless burning conditions change). Any material exposed to the fire will approach the temperature of the fire with a time constant according to the material. Long before three weeks has passed, any reasonable materials in the fire would have already reached their maximum temperature.
> It’s just that the number of disciplines, the string of events, the number of people and the amount of secrecy required to use plane crashes and fire as a coverup for demo-ing buildings are incredibly complex.
How many people do *you* think it would take? Take a small team of military demo guys, embed them in a “maintenence” group which thinks it is doing legitimate work and you’re set. For the planes, you really only need one suicidal guy, and kidnapping/torturing family members is a pretty good leverage tool that the CIA is unafraid to employ. The other hijackers can just be any rabble who think they are doing something else. You then have Cheney plan a distraction training exercise to confuse the tracking system, revise procedure so that planes can’t launch without approval, and for good measure send the most of the planes elsewhere for a different exercise. If it was me doing it, I wouldn’t even tell Bush about it. I don’t know it happened this way, but it is at least as plausible as the scenario the government has proposed.
> Bush 41 gets six muslim CIA operatives to make gas-fertilizer truck bomb. Clinton wins election. … Get Bin Laden to take credit for this failed plan.
The FBI could have stopped it and was ordered not to. They say it is incompetence, but that pretty much goes off the laugh meter when you tell your bosses that you know some guys are going to try and blow up a landmark and that you want to stop it, only to have them say to let it go forward. Who says Bush did it, or even if he did that his goal was to get elected? And Bin Laden did NOT “take credit” for this one. It was linked to him by the US government.
> Covertly pre-cut columns and plant explosives on upper floor columns of WTC 1&2. Engineer the controlled demolition to make sure that debris from the blasts in WTC 1&2 will completely crush adjacent buildings but just severely damage and cause fires in WTC7. Covertly pre-cut colums and plant explosives on the first floor (or 13th?) of WTC7.
Why would you need to ensure that the adjacent buildings are crushed? Of what relevance is that? And for that matter, if WTC7 was demo-ed, why would they need it to catch fire from WTC1/2? The building was evacuated, so they could start the cover fire any way they like. I’ve already gone over how you could plant the explosives in a maintenance crew.
> Train 20 muslim CIA operatives to hijack four airplanes and suicide attack three buildings. Or was plane #4 supposed to somehow hit the 13th floor of WTC7?
Simultaneously hijack four planes full of people.
Who says they were Muslim (and I’ve already dealt with how many would need to be suicidal)? The fourth plane was shot down and given a ridiculous patriotic story. It is not at all implausible that the US government would have the CIA put a plane in the air flown by patsies knowing all the time that they were going to shoot it down for image reasons. And simultaneously hijacking four planes is exactly as easy as hijacking one. Crews were trained to just go along and be good little sheeple, and so they did. Hijacking four planes was as easy as getting people on four planes.
> Destroy pipes to sprinkler system so the smokescreen fires can’t be put out and firefighters can’t do anything.
Same crews as before.
> Fly plane into Pentagon to make sure Americans think all the attacks are from terrorists; at the exact time of impact, detonate large explosion pre-set at the exact impact location.
I’m not sure where you get the explosion from, but the rest seems reasonable.
> Have airforce shoot down fourth airplane flown by CIA operatives. (misdirection attack)
Well, since the air force thinks the planes are actually suicide terrorists, how hard would it really be to get a single fighter pilot to shoot it down and stay quiet about it in the name of national security and not having his family snuffed?
> With firefighters and workers still in the building:
Simultaneously detonate explosives on the floors that are consumed in fire.
Twice.
What do the firefighters and workers have to do with anything? But yes, that’s basically the idea. You would need to keep (most of) the explosives from detonating due to the fire itself, but could be done by proper insulation. And if the fire from the plane were to make the thing collapse too early from false detonation, would they really care?
> When debris from WTC1 damages WTC7, start fires throughout building. Wait six hours for complete evacuation of WTC7 and blow up building with pre-set explosives.
I myself am not clear on why they wanted to take out WTC7 also. But if they were to do it, they would have to wait some time to make the collapse seem less implausible (since nothing hit it).
> Get Bin-Laden to take credit for this cunning plan.
Again, he didn’t do any such thing. He released an audio tape saying he DIDN’T do it and the US government pinned it on him anyway. They had been planning on a war in Afghanistan since at least summer of 2001, and this made their case.
> Collect insurance money. Profit!
No, what they wanted was to get back onto war footing, and they got it. If it was Israel that did it, then they wanted to turn the tide of growing support for the Palestinians and get the US military machine after their rivals.
August 24th, 2008 at 4:15 am
hey all,
well looks like the debunkers are getting slicker. nice job on the propaghanda i mean cmon NIST expect us to believe that the 79th support colum was the cause of this? nah nice try but the fact remains that WTC7 was a controlled demolition and no amount of half baked computer simulations will convince me otherwise.
August 24th, 2008 at 4:50 am
I have lost 2 co-worker’s to 911 at the pentagon and a Army buddy in this treason committed buy the US goverment as a false flag operation to enter the War overseas.What happened to my co-workers.My question is why did radar not pickup the planes on 911 before they killed thousands of people including my three friends.A cruise missle hit the pentagon no doubt,where is the plane now? I have researched this from 911 to present.I belive thre plane was ditched in the deep Atlantic Ocean after failure of radar contact locally and by NORAD.NORAD tracks millions of space debris in conjuction to local air attacks and sub sea launches.Why was’ant United States attacked by other overseas and local terrorists with the time down of NORAD’S High Tech system.With ample time to do this? I miss my friends deeply and will never cease in bringing these murder’s of innocent people.Why not stage our own 911 Million persons march on the footsteps of our goverment,Just as the Million Man March.I want the people involved in this crime to be tried.I miss my friend’s and Will never keep my investigation from being heard in our goverment’s ears. Thank’s to all the Truth based people giving there evidince to our Goverment.Sorry for the long post,but I am concerned about this MURDEROUS act upon Civil American and other people worldwide present in the 911 act’s. Thanks for reading my post and never back down.Eric A. Newcom
August 24th, 2008 at 5:25 am
To Scott: Fly plane into Pentagon to make sure Americans think all the attacks are from terrorists; at the exact time of impact, detonate large explosion pre-set at the exact impact location.
>> Barbra Honegger has uncovered evidence of bomb(s) detonated inside the Pentagon, along with evidence of Giuliani destroying evidence on the scene of WTC.
http://www.radiodujour.com/peo.....r_barbara/
August 24th, 2008 at 5:41 am
Ken, I won’t waste my time addressing you.
Rhonda, thanks again!
S Kahler. Buy a better grate for your fireplace. You my friend don’t understand the laws of physics. You assume that your wood burning fireplace fits the type of fire we are discussing. I know enough about metal smithing my friend. I also know that they had to stoke the flames (Air is a major component for combustion) with air to get the metal to the point of being malleable. We are talking about malleable hear my friend. We are talking about molten…Get a dictionary. There is a difference. There are several types of burns. Your fireplace is not a blast furnace (Ahh, thats what your find in foundaries; You know, where they have hige crubibles holding liquified metal) and it has to have air to keep the flames going. Have you ever left your little caccon of a house and gone outside to look at the smoke leaving you chimney? I bet it wasn’t belching blake smoke like what was leaving the towers. Come into the natural world my friend!
August 24th, 2008 at 5:55 am
Sorry about the mispelling S Kahler. I should proof read before I write, but I wonder if you could comprehend the words anyways.
Walter Burien, I’m saddened that some of these nuts here won’t try to defend their ridiculous notion of jet fuel fire/impact collapse and address what you have said. If my house caught on fire (I should use S Kahler’s crappy fireplace grate) and burnt/collapsed to the ground, I bet my chimney would still be standing, as it is independant from the exterior structure. How many pictures of this have we seen.
August 24th, 2008 at 6:01 am
KmKolsch, I mentioned that earlier and got back no reply. Maybe Column 79 was made out of the metal that S Kahler’s grate is made from. Yes, its on the northside of the building. The farthest side away from Tower 1. Yes, at the base of Tower 1’s north side was WCT6 and then to the north of that was WTC7. Yet, WTC6 still stood after being clobbbered, more so than the southside of WTC7.
August 24th, 2008 at 6:14 am
S Kahler, you might like to talk with this guy about your fireplace grate, and, of course your views on WTC fire/collapse:
http://www.fireengineering.com.....?id=131225
August 24th, 2008 at 6:25 am
Here is a comment made that S Kahler should read. It was posted on this website earlier
Heyman Nationwide
August 23,2008 For you morons who believe fire would melt steel? I worked at U.S. Steel, Gary, Indiana for 8 years. 1976 to 1984. I was a rigger. Before I got laid off, I worked as a temperature taker in the continuious caster. BOP #1. Liquid steel is 2850 degrees.
Jet fuel burns at 1100 degrees. (Continuious feed of fuel.) Not hot enough to melt high grade steel.
I work at present in a glass manufacturing company. Liquid glass before it hits the moulds? Temperature is 1200 degrees. Sometimes the “gobs” of glass misfire and fall on the 1/8″ steel platform. Never melts through the platform.
Apparently, you morons want to believe in fairy tales. That’s up to you. You can be a Homer Simpson for life. I hope you get taken to the cleaners as much as possible. And you become homeless. That’s what your pea brained, sorry self, deserves.
I don’t give a rats ass about your self centered asses. You have to be ignorant to ignore the facts.
Peace to my fellow 911 truthers!
August 24th, 2008 at 6:32 am
scott, you expressed my point clearly. I was speaking to the fact of molten steel and not softening the steel to make it malleable. You see, they want us to accept the malleable argument and dismiss the molten steel. I have been challenged that there was no molten steel. I earloer posted an excerpt from FEMA’s study that did talk of metal that had been liquified….
August 24th, 2008 at 6:42 am
Eric A Newcom, many years ago I had the fortune of speaking to a man (The conversation wasn’t even in the context of discussing alternative explanations for 9-11 that fall outside the “official story”) and he had told me that his uncle worked and died in the Pnetagon during 9-11. He told me that his mother and father had to go to see the body, well, the leg was all that was left. They were satisfied that this limb was from their loved ones body because it had a distinctive tattoo. This man told me that his parents and others felt that no commercial airliner had struck the Pentagon and they and a small group pressed for an explanation for the cause of their loved ones death and were told it was labelled as “A Military Mishap” I asked what the heck did that mean and he told me that this was the closest his parents had got to moving the Pentagon to disclose that his death was not the result of an airliner crashing into the Pentagon and that they felt it was a errant missile fired by the US. When I spoke with this guy, I wasn’t a 911 Truther and I never got his name. I did’t bring it up here to have a debate with anyone. I’m merely sharing that with you.
August 24th, 2008 at 6:43 am
biden ” I am a Zionist, you dont have to be a jew to be a zionist”.. on shalom TV-
see for yourself-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DDuv3y5B8I
Also watch-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V5iCUBEUx4
God Bless America
GS
August 24th, 2008 at 6:53 am
scott, to add to what you said about Bin Laden, some have said that the FBI doesn’t even have him listed as being wanted for the attacks of 9-11 because they can’t prove it. They do have him wanted for the attack on the USS Cole and an embassy bombing. Some legal scholars have noted that confessions/admissions are not considered as evidence, unless you have corroborating facts that shore up what one said they did. This is to protect nuts from confessing to things they didn’t do and also to safeguard against coerced statements.
So, maybe somebody can check this out and report back otherwise: All those who believe Osma Bin Laden master minded 9-11.
August 24th, 2008 at 6:57 am
Ok, have to go watch them bring down that industrial building by jet fuel fires>>>the S Kahler way!!!
Take care folks
August 24th, 2008 at 7:10 am
I heard dead men tell no tales.
August 24th, 2008 at 7:11 am
The progressive website, CommonDreams.org has been gutted. No more readers’ posts, and several years worth of archives have been deleted. I think Spookland Security has leaned on them. The best part of that site was pissed off readers posting information that CommonDreams would not touch for a main article, such as info re 911 and Prison Planet links. With Internet 2.0 coming our way it is going to be harder to get the truth out. If we can’t establish as fact, once and for all, in the mainstream media, that WTC 7 was a controlled demolition, we’re all f*cked, because additional and worse government sponsored terror will be the result.
http://www.commondreams.org/archives.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/
August 24th, 2008 at 7:14 am
I’m watching Word Girl………it points out an unscrupulous, power-hungry politician using mind control to become elected.
August 24th, 2008 at 7:22 am
The United States still has class mobility, however, a 2005 study showed that children born into poverty in Europe and Canada were more likely to find prosperity than children born into poverty in the United States[9].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.....ptionalism
IQ is higher in the above countries, and Great Britain has a freer press than the United States.
When countries end in dynasties, countries usually end.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medici
I rather don’t think there’s any Medicis’ running around in America promoting art, literature, and architecture, quite the opposite.
August 24th, 2008 at 7:33 am
The concept “American Exceptionalism” was coined by the Frenchman, Alexis de Tocqueville, in Democracy in America
“Exceptional” in this context is to be interpreted as “…qualitatively different from all other countries.” Seymour Martin Lipset. American Exceptionalism: A Double-Edged Sword, (W.W.Norton & Company, New York, 1996), pp.18.
In Democracy in America, Tocqueville identified five values crucial to America’s success as a democratic republic: (1) liberty (2) egalitarianism, (3) individualism, (4)populism and (5) laissez-faire
These concepts constitue what is known as the American Creed. Tocqueville understood these values as being reflective of the absence of feudal and hierarchical structures such as monarchies and aristocracies.
Read Thomas Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia. http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/.....fVirg.html
August 24th, 2008 at 7:34 am
I’m a bit confused, according to this NY Times expose’ on 2/9/89, the Soloman Building WTC7 was being touted as a “building within a building.” Silverstein was boasting that ENTIRE floors could be removed if a particular tenant needed the additional height and that there would be no structural issue due to the massive redundancy in the support structure. In other words, the proverbial BRICK SHIT HOUSE!
COMMERCIAL PROPERTY: The Salomon Solution; A Building Within a Building, at a Cost of $200 Million – New York Times
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f.....gewanted=1
Boy, Larry, you sure have egg on your face, that super structure of 1989 being compromised by little girder 79, 12 years later…
ROTFL
August 24th, 2008 at 7:54 am
Hey, all you folks that think Osama Bin Laden was responsible for the 9-11 attacks, please call your friends in the FBI. They seem not to know. Here is their RECENT bulletin:
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topt...../laden.htm
Oh, but Fox News. CNN said he was and thats all you need to know!
August 24th, 2008 at 8:03 am
Check this out>>>
Boy, that steel must be made of titanium:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/....._2005.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened......_2005.html
August 24th, 2008 at 8:07 am
Also,
http://whatreallyhappened.com/....._core.html
or http://www.whatreallyhappened......_core.html
August 24th, 2008 at 8:15 am
Mike,
The sharp tools in the shed know that OBL was supplied by the Gov. to stall the USSR in Afghanistan for 10 years. Those 10 years bankrupted the USSR. It is almost poetic that they turned the tables and have apparently let the USA destroy itself. This is what Ron Paul calls “blow back.”
Even if the Gov was involved they would never do 9-11 directly instead they would use a “puppet.” This is what the USA Gov relies upon by using people and nations to do their dirty work. Why use explosives when WTC7 never mattered to begin with. By all appearances it was an unattended causality of the bigger attack.
Mike, the Gov has put each and every man, woman and child in the USA into danger, debt and conflict by Fing with the world. Naturally, the hijackings were real. Who else would fly the planes? Do you actually believe actual Americans would take part in all of this? Few are the Americans that would die for America. You want it to be something that it is not. Our country is morally, spiritually and physically broken as a result of 9-11.
Then you poke your finger in my eye because I can see while you choose your Rube Goldberg solution that does nothing but confuses matters. The only thing important is who was in those planes.
August 24th, 2008 at 8:23 am
http://whatreallyhappened.com/.....osions.wmv
August 24th, 2008 at 8:23 am
“America began and continues as the most anti-statist, legalist, and rights-oriented nation.” Seymour Martin Lipset
Until now.
Why think, when you can have porn!!?? That’s a piece of redundancy that keeps the world going. One side thinking porn is about freedom versus the human race is only 6000 years old. ::sigh::
August 24th, 2008 at 8:28 am
No one seems to consider WHAT is in a building? All the CHUMPS that believe the lieing governement PAP seem to think these building are made of SOLID lead. What all these buildings contain most of is AIR!
August 24th, 2008 at 8:36 am
Alpha Omega:
There were no people on the 9/11 planes because there were no 9/11 planes.
As a matter of fact, the US government did ‘farm out’ a lot of the dirty work of 9/11 to another nation: Israel.
August 24th, 2008 at 8:38 am
Could/Would the government do such things by trying to create cover stories?
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur46.htm
August 24th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Mike,
Have a look at the PIC you linked to here:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/wtc1_core.jpg
The lattice looking structure inside the cores of both 1&2 was the support structure for the CRANES and was later REMOVED other wise the cranes would have remained atop after completion. The WTC buildings were completely unproven and as a result of 9-11 there touted strengths were nothing but hype.
Go on thinking what you want but it is what it is. I doubt you were ever even in them but if you were and could feel the building you were in rocking back and fourth you would soon feel a sense of relief when you got back on the ground again. Trusses are the inexpensive solution to making light weight buildings.
The floors were not of the sort of concrete you would see in low rises. They used ultra light weight concrete that was easy to move upward and added less weight then conventional 4000PSI concrete. Need I go deeper?
August 24th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Gregory Fegel,
You are insane!
August 24th, 2008 at 8:47 am
47 interior core columns running from the top of the towers and buried dozens of feet into the bedrock below.
AlphaOmega writes:
The floors were not of the sort of concrete you would see in low rises. They used ultra light weight concrete that was easy to move upward and added less weight then conventional 4000PSI concrete. Need I go deeper?
Yeahh, I would suggest you “go deeper”
August 24th, 2008 at 8:52 am
These discussions of 9-11 events, occurring other than the government version, with idiots here is like trying to convince one who is under “battered wife syndrome” You can use all the logic in the world, but some people like being abused and defending the abuser.
August 24th, 2008 at 8:53 am
scott: ‘this is the weakest part of your argument, because there ARE no comparable building collapses, even in cases of uncontrolled fires’
No, this is the weakest part of YOUR argument. You have no factual evidence that a burned down skyscraper (or a skyscraper destroyed in any manner) might tip over sideways, yet you still insist that this is the only way a burned down skyscraper COULD fall. And you hide your head in the sand about the fact that the top section of WTC 2 (?) fell about four stories on one side before the rest fell into the lower section under it.
scott: ‘it not even imaginable where the forced air would have come from’
The plume of smoke visible from space should indicate that the fires were well supplied with oxygen. But since you don’t understand, skyscrapers act like smoke stacks when opened from both ends. The people, machines and solar heat gain warm the air inside. Hot air pushes up. Cool air rushes in from below to replace it. This is why skyscrapers are usually designed with non-openable windows and revolving doors in the lobby. On 9-11, the WTC buildings were opened wide and air flowed naturally.
More crazy arguments about how skyscrapers can’t burn down and steel maintains it’s full strength until it liquifies…..
Buildings can’t fall DOWN!!!
Steel can’t stretch or bend, even when heated to over 1000F!
A skyscraper fire would run out of air!
WTC7 was the real target of the 9-11 attackers!
August 24th, 2008 at 8:56 am
The best way to cover up a crime like 9-11? Let Israel do it, since it is anethema to accuse Israel of ANYTHING.
Can you say anti-Semite?
Israel did Most of the work on 9-11. The Bush administration just sat back and enjoyed the show.
Can you say stand-down?
August 24th, 2008 at 8:59 am
AlphaOmega, what matters here are the logical people who can reason. People here, for the most part, don’t accept your baseless notions. Folks can go on all day bringing people like you relevent information to examine, but you wish to be ignorant. That is your choice, but I think people would appreciate you supporting your opinions, otherwise, it really is a waste of time for me to converse with you.
August 24th, 2008 at 9:00 am
Talk later with all of you guys!
Have a great day…
August 24th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Israel really overplayed their hand on 9-11. People are starting to wake up. And once the truth takes hold you can say bye bye to Israel, hello to peace.
Not to mention the positive effect it will have on domestic politics. After this is all over the US is going to be saturated with a healthy distrust of all government.
Just try to pull something like this again, maggots. You have screwed yourselves by exausting your primary means of control.
Adios, fuckers!
August 24th, 2008 at 9:16 am
wt 7 was controled detonation i dont believe NIST claims, that column 79 collapsed, leading to the collapse of the whole building
its another BS lie to try and take the minds of the people off what really happened by giving another BS excuse these bozos need to just tell the truth
August 24th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Mike writes:
47 interior core columns running from the top of the towers and buried dozens of feet into the bedrock below.
Yeahh, I would suggest you “go deeper”
Mike,
The floors were poured on a deck that was fastened to long trusses that were attacked to angle iron. In low rise construction the floors are of typical concrete and can be of several hardnesses.The towers needed light weight concrete and that pulverized dust all about and around NYC were predominantly the floors and the exterior wall coatings.
In order to control costs and reduce load light weight materials were selected. You bring up a great point about, “47 interior core columns running from the top of the towers and buried dozens of feet into the bedrock below.” According to your own 9-11 ers there were “molten pools of steel” down there so lets see that…
http://guardian.150m.com/false-opp/2418.jpg
yep those look molten…
http://guardian.150m.com/false.....umns-s.jpg
as do these…
Now in this photo you linked to…
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/wtc1_core.jpg
You see the box columns but inside there is more framing and that is what the WTC cranes were perched upon. That was removed as the cranes were lowered back to the earth. Someone just looking at this picture might get the idea that this framing was part of the actual building when it was not.
Needless to say I doubt you were ever in those buildings and I doubt you know all that much about steel construction because if you did than you would not have any questions. By the way the WTC floors looked like this (they carried the ceilings and the like too)…
http://killtown.911review.org/.....larity.jpg
While around 30 years before the Empire State Building was built like this…
http://www.nypl.org/research/c.....erior.jpeg
Using no light weight trusses but instead “I” beams with a wire webbed mesh and heavy concrete floor.
August 24th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Controlled demolitions plain and simple!!!
August 24th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Of course the evil bastards will never come right out and say, “yes, we did it.” But when these pathetic explanations are all they can come up with it amounts to the same thing doesn’t it?
We are coming for you. And all the tasers, gas, and rubber bullets in the world can’t stop us.
Prepare for the gallows.
August 24th, 2008 at 9:38 am
This is a load of cheese!
August 24th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Cheeseman you are the expert in cheese. I cannot believe how brainwashed you non believers are. Keep eating your cheese and stay asleep as you will be no help anyway.
August 24th, 2008 at 10:10 am
AlphaOmega I could not access the photos you are revering too. do you have another link?
August 24th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Controlled Demolition, Inc. , the company that quickly removed the evidence at both ground zero and the Murrah building in Oklahoma were roundly criticized by the repective fire department agencies, accusing them of destroying a crime scene. Yet on their own website they contend that they are who you want to investigate and preserve a crime scene. Hmmmn…..
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With cross capabilities in the preservation of evidence and experience in OSHA mandated investigations, Controlled Demolition Incorporated (CDI) can provide the technical expertise to protect evidence, gather relevant data and position the parties to respond to the inquires which follow accidents in the work place. Reference the Phillips Petroleum Plant explosion.
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August 24th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Dumbass Alpha Omega does not even know that the US Government says NO pancaking occured.
Alpha Omega is an idiot.
IN fact, the GOV through NIST says the floors were too strong and somehow pulled in the outside columns causing a sledge hammer effect. NO floors failed according to the NIST.
Until Alpha Omega can show you how WTC 1 and 2 can fall in 10 senconds dont listen to the idiot. He cant show you a model with freefall just as the Gov cannot.
August 24th, 2008 at 10:25 am
AlphaOmega,
Nuking NYC would not be kosher for those zion-masonic traitors to God, humanity and all thing decent. Tel Aviv West (NYC) is a central hub of Organized Global Evil, Inc., therefore a “minor” incident such as 9/11, would be more than sufficient to advance their agenda. I mean really, where would one go for a bagel and lox during passover when you’re absorbing 200 reds per hour? Besides, it would make your food taste funny.
I understand the point you’re trying to make, but lumping legitimate truthers with hacks and disinformation moles is not conducive to the argument.
Mr Fegel,
Surely you’re going to share some SOMA with me as you SERIOUSLY AND CONCLUSIVELY illustrate the claim that there were no planes? To say there were no planes is the equivalent to saying there were no towers collapsing, ergo, one could then say there were no towers.
I assume you were messing with the feeble minded just to see if they were room temperature or not.
August 24th, 2008 at 10:30 am
CONTROLLED DEMOLITIONS,INC. were the one’s that removed the evidence prematurely from both ground zero and the Murrah building in Oklahoma. They were roundly criticized by the fire agencies in both locale for exactly that.
YET, on their very own website they claim to “be the Man” when one needs to have a crime scene investigated for explosives, etc!!
Explosions
Explosions can be caused by gas, dust, and other sources which defy purely mathematical analysis. Loizeaux Group International’s (LGI’s) unique blend of 52 years of field experience with forensic, explosive and structural analysis allows us to start with the aftermath and work backwards toward the cause of industrial and social tragedies.
With cross capabilities in the preservation of evidence and experience in OSHA mandated investigations, Controlled Demolition Incorporated (CDI) can provide the technical expertise to protect evidence, gather relevant data and position the parties to respond to the inquires which follow accidents in the work place. Reference the Phillips Petroleum Plant explosion.
Whether responding under OSHA or health and safety investigations to industrial explosions, investigative requests of insurers regarding bombings or accidental detonation of explosive products, the Loizeaux Group has the expertise to derive the best possible data from each and every scene.
Blasting Claims
Commercial application of explosives worldwide consumes hundreds of thousand tons of explosives, annually. From time to time, controversy arises between quarry operators, commercial blasters and adjacent commercial or private property owners. The Loizeaux Group International (LGI) Team has the technical understanding of explosives, field operations and the response frequency of structures to clearly define the parameters of guilt, or innocence, in a given scenario.
LGI specialists have served the insurance and legal professions by investigating hundreds of claims against commercial users of explosives for claims of damage from blasting vibrations. Using years of experience in the field and the data available, whether from witnesses, recorded data and logs, physical evidence of blast effects, or the lack of such evidence, LGI personnel seek to form firm, supportable, impartial conclusions, as to the responsibility for claimed effects. Our reputation for impartiality serves to support our conclusions and gives clear direction to claims personnel in their task of evaluating settlements or the denial of claims, and gives attorneys a clear concept of the strengths or weaknesses of their position.
LGI has its own inventory of blast recording devices (seismographs) and LGI specialists are recognized experts in their operation, analysis, and interpretation. Our personnel are intimately familiar, though not in lockstep, with, the literature developed by the United States Bureau of Mines and others in the field of blast vibration analysis. Their training, experience, and ability to communicate, including the preparation of understandable and persuasive exhibits, make them a valuable asset if it becomes necessary to turn from mediation to legal proceedings for adjudication.
Structural Failures
Controlled Demolition Incorporated’s (CDI’s) international network is prepared to move swiftly to support Loizeaux Group International’s (LGI’s) response to analysis of structural collapse emergencies, worldwide. Regardless of the cause of collapse, LGI can draw on Controlled Demolition Incorporated’s unparalleled database and skilled professionals in structural, strength of materials and design fields to work with local authorities and contractors in stabilizing dynamic conditions and setting the stage for subsequent forensic analysis of the collapse. Reference the Sheikh Al Alakl Center collapse, and the Commonwealth Avenue collapse.
Crime Scenes Involving Explosives
Controlled Demolition Incorporated (CDI) has long term experience in dealing with forensic investigations and criminal cases associated with explosives. Professional management of evidence, security clearances ensuring confidentiality of operations and professional integrity stand behind the Loizeaux Group’s ability to respond for either the plaintiff or the defendant in a broad spectrum of cases. Reference the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.
August 24th, 2008 at 10:47 am
http://www.onemorepromethean.c.....-collapse/
August 24th, 2008 at 10:57 am
carlee,
Those links work fine for me. Try IE or Firefox!
ken,
Ad-hominems show the better man is the one who does not resort to personal attacks and childish name calling when he has trouble getting his nonsense across. Then you want to influence others to “not listen” to me because your claims are ridiculous and moronic.
Mr Bill,
I know a few guys that work for CDI and they are just as disgusted with your brand of baseless accusations as I am. You do not have one single shred of evidence of ANYTHING at ALL. There were no explosives and none were required in any of the WTC buildings.
August 24th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Howard,
What are you talking about?
August 24th, 2008 at 11:10 am
I am absiolutely sick of all the reports. considering the source and I already know it’s going to be just another truck load of MANURE ! their lies are never logical and just a big waste of time and money. anyone that knows anything about kerosene fueled smudge pots knows even the fule burning for even 24 hours, does not melt the flimsey sheet metal flu pipe or the cast iron bottom
holding the fuel………think salamander space heaters.
August 24th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Alpha, you need to understand that your government doesn’t love you. They lie to you all the time and 9/11 is just another lie in a long line of lies they’ve told you. It may be hard for you to accept, but it is the truth.
August 24th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Vote! But as a protest, and not for any of the available candidates. Write in something like “No confidence in the system” or “None of the above” or, better yet, “9-11 was an inside job”. Not voting will only create the impression of passivity.
August 24th, 2008 at 11:55 am
NIST BS wrote:
Alpha, you need to understand that your government doesn’t love you. They lie to you all the time and 9/11 is just another lie in a long line of lies they’ve told you. It may be hard for you to accept, but it is the truth.
NIST BS,
How do you know? Also how do you know what I believe? You do realize that there are people here claiming there were molten pools of steel and others that claim there were no planes at all and others that claim that there was a missile pod. Are the majority of you this messed up because of the Radon gas your exposed to living in your mom’s basement while your getting stoned?
August 24th, 2008 at 11:58 am
will soneone please nuke isreal already. god. im getting sick of those polish transplants.
August 24th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
I will ‘Never Forget’ the first thought that came into my mind when I saw the Twin Towers smoking on 9/11.
That thought was “Damn those Israelis.”
August 24th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
jojo,
Once we have cleansed our government of its present corruption we can then cut off all assistance to Israel.
Throw them to the wolves.
August 24th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Alpha,man whats wrong with you, why do you spend so much time here? Why so much effort? How much do you get paid? You should be on the right side of history man, don’t serve evil, there trying to hurt you and your family what don’t you understand about that? Fight the New World Order don’t serve it
August 24th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
George Washington’s Blog: Government Urges Return to Stone Age
http://georgewashington2.blogs.....e-age.html
August 24th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Three buildings collapse straight into the ground as if by controlled demolition. Even though it seems strange, the apparent explanation for two of them is that they were hit by passenger planes. Okay, what about the third building that collapsed in an identical manner but was NOT struck by any planes? Now the collapse of the other two buildings looks even more suspect. Taken all together, any other explanation besides purposeful demolition becomes absurd.
My point is that if they would have stopped at the collisions and just let the buildings burn natuarally they would have had their pretext for war(s) and they wouldn’t have been as susceptible to being found out.
It turns out that Jews aren’t as smart as they have tried to portray themselves. But they may just be as overreaching and avaricious as all the stereotypes suggest.
Larry Silverstein, Mossad, etc., you have fucked yourselves and your bastard nation with your utter stupidity and hubris. Because of you, the Jews will now live in infamy until the end of time, surpassing even Nazi Germany in ignominy. What an ironic twist.
August 24th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Easy, do you mind if debunk your post?
“Still another too incredible to believe anomaly is the width of the plane’s purported gash didn’t match the width of a Boeing 757’s wing span.”
You repeatedly mention Boeing 757, but the 9/11 report lists the planes as ….. drum roll please ….
American Airlines Flight 11, Boeing 767
United Airlines Flight 175, Boeing 767
Instead of making up crap to fit your conspiracy fantasy, could you try to get the facts first and then come to a conclusion?
A Conspiracy Theory does not have the solidity of a pyramid of stone.
A Conspiracy Theory is as fragile as a balloon. The tiniest flaw in its constuction will destroy it.
August 24th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
For people to believe that three steel frame buildings collapsed at virtual freefall into their own footprints, two of them that appeared to have had napalm like explosions is truly astonishing to me. Do you people who support the government fairytale believe that the law of physics took a holiday that day. How do you justify “the Emperor with no clothes Bush” sitting in a classroom
endangering the lives of all those people if we truly were under attack by Arabs who took the oath of a Holy Jihad, but were carousing in titty bars the night before leaving Holy Korans and passports everywhere they went.
It sure seems more plausible to me that one day before 9/11 we are told by Donald Rumsfeld that the Pentagon cannot account for 2.3 trillion dollars under the comptroller at the time, Dov Zakeim, who also happens to be affiliated with a company that manufactures remote control capabilities for airplanes and also happens to be an Israeli citizen. Very possibly with ties to the Mossad. He virtually disappears into a cushy job with a Neo-con think tank.
Then after this event on 9/11 our blessed beaurocrats, without reading it, pass the Patriot Act through the fearmongering of the war profiteering PNAC crowd which virtually put all agencies control under the power of one, Homeland Security, which is controlled by none other than Michael Chertoff, another Israeli citizen.
Airport security for the airlines involved with 9/11 are Israeli companies, WTC security was an Israeli company, Larry Silverstein who just happened to take over the leases of the WTC three months prior happens to insure it for attacks by airplanes and makes a very handsome profit, another Israeli citizen.
People I can go on and on. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it is probably a duck!!!
August 24th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
George Washington’s Blog: NIST Discovers Fire
http://georgewashington2.blogs.....-fire.html
August 24th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Discovering the truth about the US government’s criminal behavior, both in the past and in the present, causes many Americans to experience ‘cognitive dissonance’, and denial is common for these people. It’s like discovering that one or both of your parents is a serial killer.
Many, if not most, Americans now recognize that the US government’s rationale for the Iraq War, which has already resulted in the deaths of more than 4,000 US troops and the deaths of more than 100,000 Iraqis (by the most conservative of estimates), was based on lies that were generated by the CIA, the Pentagon, and the White House.
To those who doubt that the US government would have perpetrated the 9/11 attacks to create an excuse for the Iraq War, I ask this: “If the US government would lie to start a war that has killed more than 4,000 Americans and 100,000 Iraqis, why would you assume that the US government would not also stage the 9/11 attacks to provide an excuse to launch that same war of aggression?” I seems pretty naive to me to think that the US government that lied to start the Iraq War would not also commit the 9/11 attacks to provide an excuse to start that same War.
9/11/2008 was not the first time that the US government staged a false flag attack on US citizens and US troops to provide an excuse to launch a war of aggression. In 1898 the US government blew up its own battleship, the Maine, in Havana Harbor, killing 266 US seamen, in order to create an excuse for the USA to launch a war of aggression against Spain, in which the USA siezed control of the Spanish colonies of Cuba, Peuerto Rico, Guam, and the Philippines. Photographs of the Maine’s hull show that the explosion came from within the hull, not from the outside, proving that the US government’s ‘Official Version’, which blamed a Spanish bomb attack for the destruction of the Maine, was a lie.
– Gregory Fegel
August 24th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Max Power says:
Alpha,man whats wrong with you, why do you spend so much time here? Why so much effort? How much do you get paid? You should be on the right side of history man, don’t serve evil, there trying to hurt you and your family what don’t you understand about that? Fight the New World Order don’t serve it
Max Power,
Your accusing me of being a paid blogger and I would imagine your insinuating that I’m an agent or whatever. You ask me about why I do this or that and why do I exert the effort. Those questions are OK but the accusation is not. I would submit that you are the agent! Yes, you are the agent. Since the 1st Amendment is still in operation I can do as I please without fear of scum like yourself.
You want to bury the truth with your Rube Goldberg version of reality. Your “no planes” or “the Zionists did it” or “cutter charges did it” or “there is a pod on 175″ or “it happened the way I said it did even though I have no proof” or “Israel did it” or “a 767 can’t do that” or………
Please stop smoking pot and get out of your mommies basement!
August 24th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
1bassman9,
Where is your proof of “Michael Chertoff, another Israeli citizen.”?
He was born in America and is Jewish, but that does make him an Israei citizen, as you claim.
In America, the burden of proof is on the accuser.
Back up your claim or admit that you are a liar.
August 24th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Alpha
These people are funny, claiming that people who don’t drink the 9/11 Conspiracy Kool-Aid are paid shills.
What do they think, that you get paid $10,000.00 for each post? Who pays you $10,000.00 per post? The evil NWO?
Of course, they have no knowledge or proof of any alleged payments, therefore they are liars.
Sometimes I wonder what it would be like to be a shameless liar and accuse people of things with absolutely no proof.
August 24th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
ALPHAOMEGA….HMMM..DEFINITIVE CODE…MIGHT AS WELL HAVE JUST CALLED YOURSELF “DELTA”…YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN..?
THE BOTTOM LINE..IS THAT THERE ARE TOO MANY INCIDENTALS FOR THIS TO BE..”NATURAL”..THIS IS ONE PERSON WINNING 15 DIFFERENT SATE LOTTERIES IN ONE DAY…OR AT ALL…IT IS ..NOT POSSIBLE…
ONCE IS HAPPENSTANCE, TWICE IS COINCIDENCE…THREE TIMES IS..ENEMY ACTION!
WHO IS THE ENEMY IS THE QUESTION..I THINK WE ALL KNOW!
THAT THE BUSHCO DOCTRINE, THAT KBR, THAT THE OIL COMPANIES, THE ARMS MECHANTS, THE FORCES OF…EVIL! CAN ANYINE SAY THESE ARE NOT..EVIL FORCES IN THIS WORLD? CAN YOU SAY THAT??? WELL..THE REAL..AND FOR ME PERSONALLY..ULTIMATE “PROOF” THAT THIS WAS..THAT 9/11 AND EVERYTHING CONSEQUENTLY RELATED..FROM THE PATRIOT ACT TO THE TORTURE AND ASSASSINATIONS…THAT THIS WAS AT THE VERY LEAST “ALLOWED” TO HAPPEN AND HELPED ALONG..WELL..FOR ME..THE PROOF IS THAT…”WHO BENEFITTED” PERIOD!…TAKE ALL THE OTHER QUESTIONS AND IGNORE EM..IF YOU ARE THAT BIG A FAN OF KOOL-AID…BUT…WHO BENEFITTED..THAT CANNOT BE IGNORED..AND IT CANNOT BE ANSWERED ANY OTHER WAY….BUSHCO..THEY GOT EXACTLY…QUITE LITTERALLY..E-X-A-C-T-L-Y…WHAT THEY NEEDED, WANTED, REQUIRED…EXACTLY..NO IFAS ANDS OR BUTS….JUST EXACLY WHAT WAS ACTUALLY “ON PAPER” AS NECESSARY…”VITAL’ TO THEIR AGENDA…AND…HEY! WHATTYA KNOW? WITHIN A YEAR…BINGO! DONE DEAL…
NO!..THIS WAS NOT..NOT I SAY..AN “INTELLIGENCE FAILURE” MIT WAS A SUCCESSFUL OPERATION…THEY HAVE SAID..IN THE WEIRD SPIN OF DOUBLE SPEAK..THEY AHVE ACTUALLY ADMITTED THAT THEY KNEW…WHAT ELSE ARE THEY SAYING WHEN THEY SAY..’WE KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO FLIGHT TRAINING, WE KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO USE PLANES AS WEAPONS..’ ETC…ETC..ETC..ETC..
AGAIN I SAY..THE OLD MAXIM IS TRUE..ONCE IS HAPPENSTANCE, TWICE IS COINCIDENCE….AND THE THIRD TIME….WELL…THAT’S ENEMY ACTION FOLKS..AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THIS IS…THE ENEMIES OF LIBERTY..BECAUSE LIBERTY IS MESSY..AND GET’S IN THE WAY OF WHOLESALE LOOTING..WELL..SO..LET’S GET THE THINK TANKS ON IT..SEE WHAT THEY COME UP WITH..
AND VOILA’…TAKE OVER THE PRESS..THE OL “FOURTH ESTATE” ..NOW SO EFFECTIVELY AND COMPLETELY TURNED INTO A CORPORATE ‘FIFTH COLUMN’…AND THEN…HMMM…CIVIL LIBERTIES..WELL..THE OL ‘COMMON ENEMY’ APPROACH…DRUG WAR…AND NOW WHAT…CALIFORNIA AND OTHERS ARE BEGINNING THE LONG SLOW PROCESS OF..DECRIMINALIZATION…SO..WHAT DO WE DO NOW? OH…LET’S DO A TEST..LET’S SPEND 1995 THROUGT 2000 RUNNING SCENARIOS..”ALIENS”..LOT’S OF ALIENS PROGRAMMING..EVERY NIGTH..MULTIPLE SHOWS…LIGHTS OVER ARIZONA..AREA 51 HYSTERIA…ALIEN CULTURE..ALIENS EVERYWHERE…THE FEAR FROM WITHOUT..WHAT’S THAT? THEY AREN’T BUYING IT? DAMN! OKAY..HOW ABOUT SOME..WELL..BROWN SKINNED PEOPLE ALWAYS’ WORK WELL..SO..LE’T BOMBARD EM WITH OSAMA…AND…A FEW MONTHS LATER…WHOOPSY DAISY…9/11…AND FINALLY..JUST THE DATE..IS SO PERFEC FOR THE AMERICAN PSYCHE..SO DAMN PERFECT FOR THE COLLECTIVE UNCOSNCIOUS…IT IS TOO PERFECT..ANOTHER…COINCIDENCE..”EMERGENCY”..DUHHH…NO COLLATERAL DAMGE? THESE GUY’S BEAT THE RUSSIANS….THE R-U-S-S-I-A-N-S!…VICIOUS FIGHTERS..AND WHAT? THEY FLY INTO AN ALMOST EMPTY AND MEANINGLESS TARGET…?? THESE ARE MILITARY PLANNERS..AND THEY HIT A “SYMBOLIC” TARGET…THAT ONLY WORKS FOR THE MIND OF A CITIZEN…MILITARY PLANNERS..WOULD HAVE HIT THE PEOPLE THAT WOULD BE COMING AFTER THEM..JUST LIKE THEY DID IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY TO THE RUSSIANS…JUST LIKE THEY WERE TAUGTH TO DO BY OUR OWN INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES..HIT M WHERE IT HURTS…DON’T PULL IT IF YOU AINT GONNA USE IT..THEY WOULD HAVE HIT THE FBI AND THE CIA..PERIOD!..THEY WOULD NOT..HAVE DONE WHAT WAS DONE…AND IF THEY HATE US SO MUCH..THEN WHY WERE CASUALTIES…KEPT TO BASICALLY..JUST ABOUT AS LOW AS WAS POSSIBLE…THE BUILDINGS WERE CAPABLE OF HOLDING 30,000 PEOPLE…AND THEY AHTE U SOOOO MUCH…THAT THEY COULD ONLY HAVE MADE IT LESS LETHAL IF THEY HAD HIT IT AT 3AM…BUT THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN JUST TOO UNBELIEVABLE..NO..THIS WAS SO…”MANAGED” THAT IT COULD ONY..AND WAS..FOR A FACT..SORRY..ALPHAOMEGA..BUT FOR A FACT..AN INSIDE JOB..
WHO BENEFITTED?
WHO HAD THE POWER TO DO THIS?
WHO COULD COVER IT UP?
YEAH..GUY’S IN CAVES!?!..SURE…SURE..BUT NOT THE CAVES..AND NOT THE GUY’S…THAT MOST PEOPLE SEEM CONTENT TO ACCEPT..NOPE..THESE GUY’S..THE ONES WHO REALLY MADE IT HAPPEN…WELL..THEY ARE IN EMENT CAVES IN 3 PIECE SUITS…AND THA CAVES ARE IN NORTH DAKOTA AND NEBRASKA…AN WE….ARE…WAY…DOWN..THE..RABBIT..HOLE….AND ALICE?..SHE IS BEING WATERBOARDED FOR HAVING BEEN OVERHEARD “DISCUSSING THE CONSTITUTION”.
RANT! SPLUT!…GRIPE!..YEAH..BITTER..DISCOMBOBULATED…SURE I AM..BUT PEOPLE LIKE ALPHAOMEGA..PISS ME OFF..YOU CAN ALMOST SEE TH “PROTOCOL SHEET”..’STEP 1-RIDICULE THE OTHER OPINION.STEP 2-REFERNCES TO DRUG USE AND ARMCHAIR PSYCHEOLOGY..TERMS LIKE ‘PARANOIA’ AND ‘CRAZY’ SHOULD BE USED LIBERALLY..”
ETC..ETC..ETC…YEAH..IT’S A FREE COUNTRY..BUT..THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE FEDERAL LOYALIST ARMY AND THE CONSTITUTIONALISTS…THE CONSTITUTIONALISTS BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE EVERY FREEDOM BUT ONE..AND THAT IS THE FREEDOM TO TAKE OTHERS FREEDOM..THE FEDERAL LOYALISTS DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS LOOP..THE BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN DEPRIVE OTHERS OF FREEDOM TO SOMEHOW PROTECT FREEDOM…AND ARE FRIM BELIEVERS IN THE FREEDOM TO DENY LIBERTY TO THOSE WITH OTHER OPINIONS…BUSH DOCTRINE..FASCISM..CALL IT WHAT IT IS..
WHO BENEFITS?
WATCH YOUR BACKS–
LONG LIVE THE NEW FLESH!
August 24th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
* The holy law of Jesus Christ governs our civilization, but it does not yet permeate it. They say that slavery has disappeared from European civilization. That is incorrect. It still exists, but now it weighs only on women, and it is called prostitution. … It weighs on women, that is to say, on grace, fraility, beauty, motherhood. This is not the least among man’s shames.
o Victor Hugo, Les Misérables.
August 24th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Think for yourself
I believe he holds dual citizenship with US and Israel. His Israeli citizenship through his mother but I find it strange of all the things you could have a bone to pick with my comment, you defend the rabid Zionist who is one of the authors of the Patriot Act that wants to destoy our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Can you prove he doesn’t hold dual citizenship. Would you also deny a relative of his is behind the disinformation campaign put out by Popular Mechanics.
Go crawl back under the rock you came from.
August 24th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
If you have the courage to face Truth once and for all, for yourself, for your family, for our children’s children, if you can handle the truth, presented in a no-nonsense manner, with no ulterior motive, simply TRUTH. An awesome connecting of the dots that is so empowering, so life-changing, it will literally give you an edge every day for the rest of your life because you will be free from the web of lies that you didn’t even know you were entangled in. Even if you have seen many revealing documentaries exposing NWO agendas, you will be speechless for an hour or two after you watch “ring of power” on redicecreations.com , IT WILL CHANGE YOU ON THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL LEVEL OF YOUR BEING. it is free to watch so please check it out and get as many people as you can to watch it. we must wake them up one by one. ALEX JONES NEEDS OUR HELP, TELL PEOPLE ABOUT PRISON PLANET, BUY FABLED ENEMIES and spread the info salvo! LIVE FREE – DIE HARD !!!
August 24th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
AlphaOmega, once again, you are an idiot. Its the same in the beginning, as it will be in the end of all this, you are an idiot. I guess your moniker fits you well: An idiot now and later!
August 24th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Interior cores columns discussed in this report in consultation with the WTC designer Minoru Yamasaki (Thats not a motorcycle AlphaOmega but the architect) can be read about here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/innovation.html
I will go with the architect before believing you AlphaOmega abiout whether there were 47 interior cores columns and what their purpose was. You are quite the idiot, but keep talking because you make it easier for others to see what the truth is. They read you and read us and I love it. You actually help us educate people by way showing them a choice between lies/confusion/non-intellect or our data that demonstrates that the officail story doesn’t hold water. Many Thanks!
August 24th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
AlphaOmega wrote to me:
AlphaOmega
August 24,2008 Mike writes:
47 interior core columns running from the top of the towers and buried dozens of feet into the bedrock below.
Yeahh, I would suggest you “go deeper”
Mike,
The floors were poured on a deck that was fastened to long trusses that were attacked to angle iron. In low rise construction the floors are of typical concrete and can be of several hardnesses.The towers needed light weight concrete and that pulverized dust all about and around NYC were predominantly the floors and the exterior wall coatings.
In order to control costs and reduce load light weight materials were selected. You bring up a great point about, “47 interior core columns running from the top of the towers and buried dozens of feet into the bedrock below.” According to your own 9-11 ers there were “molten pools of steel” down there so lets see that…
http://guardian.150m.com/false-opp/2418.jpg
yep those look molten…
http://guardian.150m.com/false…..umns-s.jpg
as do these…
Now in this photo you linked to…
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/wtc1_core.jpg
You see the box columns but inside there is more framing and that is what the WTC cranes were perched upon. That was removed as the cranes were lowered back to the earth. Someone just looking at this picture might get the idea that this framing was part of the actual building when it was not.
Needless to say I doubt you were ever in those buildings and I doubt you know all that much about steel construction because if you did than you would not have any questions. By the way the WTC floors looked like this (they carried the ceilings and the like too)…
http://killtown.911review.org/…..larity.jpg
Please read this folks:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/innovatio.html
They talk about the exterior and interior columns (Oh, I forgot AlphaOmega said they removed the interior columns) and how the building was contructed to control sway from wind gusts. I guess you missed these points AO. Hey, by the way, how did they remove those interior columns as you state? I know they describe these buildings as tubes, but you don’t honestly believe they sucked them out like through a straw, do you?
Also, CDI reported molten metal during their work clearing the WTC1 and 2 site. You idiot!
August 24th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Sorry, its http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/innovation.html
I make sure I post sites that have working links
August 24th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Mike wrote:
A whole bunch of crap…
Hi Mike,
The cranes in this picture that you linked to…
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/wtc1_core.jpg
and the structures they move up on were removed after the construction. Check it out luser! While your at it it look at the photo of the Empire State building here…
http://www.nypl.org/research/c.....ories.jpeg
there is a column every 12 feet maximum. The WTC’s were built to provide maximum floor space at a lower construction cost per sq ft. The trade off is SAFETY under adverse conditions. The exterior wall of the WTCs had no hard corners and was at that time very new and unproven.
Get off the drugs son!
August 24th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Mike wrote:
Sorry, its http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/innovation.html
I make sure I post sites that have working links
Hi Mike,
Your a faggot!
August 24th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
AlphaOmega,
You are a joke. We are talking about the towers and not the Empire State Building. The link I gave addresses/debunks your ludicrous arguments.
By the way, in you childesh ways, maybe you can sticks your fingers in your ears and sing:
Ring around the Rosy
Pocket full of Posy
Ashes, Ashes,
The Towers Fall Down (Due to Jet Fuel/Combustible Hyrdocarbon Fires)
Egots, my friend!
August 24th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
By way you idiot AO, where do you think the ends of the trusses were attached to? The outer ends were attached to plates fastened to the exterior columns and, guess what, the inners were fastened to the interior columns.
What a dope
August 24th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
You are a joke AO
Address the details given for the structure design. You said there were no core columns and guess what? You are wrong!!!
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/innovation.html
Thats posting crap? You are a joke!
August 24th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Have a great night men, and of course, you too AO!!!
August 24th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Mike the fag wrote:
You are a joke AO
Address the details given for the structure design. You said there were no core columns and guess what? You are wrong!!!
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/innovation.html
Thats posting crap? You are a joke!
Well Mike,
I never said there were no core columns. I said that the lattice looking framing was to support the construction cranes… All of that was removed! Why would I say they removed the core columns? They came down with ease on 9-11 from the attack but that is history…
Stop smoking crack!
August 24th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
So let me get this straight. The 47 story skyscraper collapsed becaused column 79 failed due to a new phenomena known as thermal expansion. So under this logic column 79 was supporting the entire structure? Does NIST think we’re stupid? And since there is this new phenomona occurring, I would be curious when the peer review is going to take place.
August 24th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
http://www.onemorepromethean.com
August 24th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
ThinkForYourself and Alpha you guys should go start your own Alex Jones fan club because im sure you have some sort of sick obsession with him and the 9/11 truth movement if where so full of shit and have no substance then why are you here?
August 24th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
AlphaOmega,
So what was your point about cranes being taken down? You said that the interior structure was for the support of the cranes, which were later taken down. And your point was? Who gives a crap about the cranes that were taken down. It is clear that your were trying to demostrate that the interior columns had nothing to do with supporting the buildings structure. What an idiot. Hey, buut folks, give AO all the rope he needs>>to hang himself. By the way, keep digging…you are digging a nice whole for youself.
August 24th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
This is what AlphaOmega would like you to believe: The Towers pancaked (floors-horizontal platforms, walls made of columns-exterial walls of the towers which were vertical supports and interior columns-vertical supports buried in bedrock)…Wow, what a pipe dream. Visualize this folks, it is winter and there is an ice storm. The trees are laden with the weight of the ice on the branches. The tree is under great stress, holding all that weight of the ice. Finally, the branches break away from the truck (Visualize the floors breaking away from the columns) and down they crash to the ground. Well, what happened to the tree trunk (Think columns)? It still stands. Now, the Towers were of a tube construction. The floors could break free all they want. The outer tube and inner columns were independant of the floors. The floors relied on the columns and not the other way around.
Here’s a great video:
http://taboo.magnify.net/item/C1WDJ4MVYTZ0K5P3
AO, suck on that tube structure
August 24th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Again, have a good night. I need to go read an AO bedtime story to the kids. They like humor
August 24th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Are you sending me death threats now on top of all the other crap!!!????
August 24th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Ichabod Crane, we get it………..
August 24th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Thank You Mike for your comment on my post Im glad to see that others do care about views that really care about our lost ones and the insight you have given to me.Eric A. Newcom
August 24th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
I’d like to give a shout-out to the man who is making all that is going on here possible. Thank you, Alex Jones.
No matter what your reason for posting here; whether you are seeking answers or solidarity or just love talking trash, you wouldn’t be doing it HERE if it weren’t for Alex.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:36 am
Mike,
Would hove everyone believe that the framing seen between the core columns was part of the WTCs wen it was part of the crane system used to build them. He pointed to a picture that showed the towers being built and now to a movie. My first point is that a viewer might get the idea that the framing for the cranes made the construction more substantial than it was.
My second point was that the WTCs used a new type of construction and it was unproven and untested. NIST reviewed and stopped short of laying any blame to the architect who had passed away and explained that the towers complies with late 60ies early 70ies building codes. The held back from doing much about the codes and said the buildings were sound and within most of the codes.
NIST explained that in reality there is no guarantee that a building could survive a direct hit from a 767 and the WTCs were at best thought to be able to take a strike from a 707 though there are no guarantees.
Mike wants you to believe there were molten pools under the buildings but in reality outside of a few faked pictures of an excavator holding some what appears to be red hot metal in its jaws there are NO pictures. There is not one single photo showing any molten pools of steel. The photos and video showing the molten aluminum coming out of the So Tower explains the 767’s parts being melted.
Mike wants you to believe that trusses are safe and shows pictures of other fires but never mentions that those buildings were built in an entirely different way. He compared apples to oranges. The Madrid building had a post 12′ in every direction and the exterior walls were post and beam (like the Empire State Building) unlike the WTC that used modular panels for the exterior and relied on welds rather than bolt ups and large rivets and bolts.
Granted planes especially jumbo jets are not supposed to fly into buildings but WTC7 was not supposed to be struck by tons of debris or be allowed to burn for any length of time but “thems” are the breaks especially when you get attacked like we did.
Mike gave a link to NOVA and it has an interactive…
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/meta-flash.html
Try it and when you get to the HEAT part then tell us if “thermal expansion” is something new. Mike wants you to believe that heat is never a factor and that it is not a factor in WTC7 even though it combined with structural damage and no fire suppression caused the collapse.
Mike wants you to believe in his Rube Goldberg version of what happened and do so with at best hearsay evidence. There simply were no explosives and the WTC buildings used TRUSSES and that is the basic fatal flaw. The Madrid building and the Empire State Building used post and beam and cast concrete floors and this proved in both of those examples to withstand major (Madrid to worst) of fire.
Is it even fair to compare the Madrid Windsor fire to any of the WTCs? Since the Madrid Windsor used post and beam it is not valid but considering that the Windsor was 32 stories tall it was shorter than any of the WTCs in this discussion (1, 2 & 7). The Windsor was taken down after and we should talk about that too since it could not be rebuilt.
The Windsor was about the same height of the loose section (part that tipped) of the South WTC tower. That seemed to remain intact as it plunged through the rest of the building. Mike wants to incorporate discussions of WTC 1 & 2 and the Madrid Windsor in order to convolute the issues with WTC7. That is his job so the Rube Goldberg solution does not loose steam.
Mike is making everything up or parroting other stuff he picked up from someone else that made it up!
They made the following up out of thin air…
1)No planes…
2)Holograms…
3)Missie Pod on 175…
4)Molten pools of steel…
5)Real planes flown out and scuttled over the Atlantic replaced by fuel tankers…
6)Shape charges…
7)Cutter charges…
8)Little steel beads from cutting torches and arc welding recovered and then explained to be part of thermite and or thermate…
9)Heat (thermal expansion) does not weaken steel…
10)Mini Nuclear Bombs were detonated below the WTC buildings and caused the molten pools and the light weight concrete floors to be pulverized (there is a downward limit on a nuke by the way)…
11)The Zionists did it…
12)The CIA did it…
13)Everyone except 911ers did it…
It is not that the Government is not in the mix it is that these 13 examples (there are many more) are overly complicated, without proof, ridiculous and comical. Why not just have someone (from another puppet country) hijack the planes and do what we saw and then we invade Iraq? Why the overly complex, impossible to control direct Governmental, Rube Goldberg farce? Why would the Government create a direct link to themselves and the attack?
Mike wants you to believe that crews of men entered the WTC 1 & 2 and removed the Sheetrock from the columns, installed charges and wired it all together and covered it all back up with new Sheetrock and paint while not a soul noticed. Crews of construction guys, drywallers and painters went around planting bombs…. ha ha ha aha ha your Fed up Mike!
August 25th, 2008 at 4:38 am
http://www.mace.manchester.ac......efault.htm
Check the bottom two photos. Still sticking by your assertion that a building fire can’t weaken steel?
August 25th, 2008 at 5:23 am
More bable AlphaOmega,
You have only given your views and not substantaited them with any data. I never tried to lead people to believe that the your twisted interpretation on the “cranes and lattice work” I was pointing out that there were interior columns, which you only finally admitted to by stating that they came down when the building collapsed. You state: “My first point is that a viewer might get the idea that the framing for the cranes made the construction more substantial than it was” That is your view and your answer to interior columns, as if you were trying to lead people to believe that this interior framing was only for cranes. What an idiot. Of course they were to attach the otehr end of the trusses. If you watch the video, lame brain, they mention that they were able to build this exeskeletol buildings for the first time due to high strength steel that was not avaivable prior. You have stated that they were made cheaply due to the period of the energy crisis. Yeahh, and I guess the Hoover Dam collapsed because it was erected under the Makes Works program in the Depression. Get your head out of the sand A0.
Oh, you like to defend NISTs conclusions. Well, they stated that the towers fell because the steel (At every key point in the buidling in order for symmetrical pancake collapse) had it’s fire retardant material knocked off by the airplane (Yes, there were airplanes, I never said there weren’t. This is your style to lie and attach fact data where it doesn’t belong) and then the subsequent jet fuel/building combustables fires weakened the steel to cause the metal framing to loose its load bearing strength and the towers came crashing down. I might add, with next to no resistance of any of the floors, trusses, etc below the levels they were pancaking on. Well, this article we are posting under is about WTC7 and the NIST Finding. Lame brain, can you tell me what plane struck WTC7? What plane struck WTC7 to knock of the fire retardany material (NIST conveniently didn’t discuss that!!) to expose “column 79″ and all the other pertinent metal supports (By the way Lame Brain, WTC7 was built box frame with Columns and Beam in the old style as you mentioned that building were erected vs the way the towers were erected) to allow them to be weakened by fires (Again, no jet fuel here you idiot; and don’t try the diesel fuel tank story because NIST through that out as the sole cause when they dismissed FEMA’s finding) and then that building fell also in near free-fall speed. Again, your items #1-13 I have never been guilty of saying (This is your tactic to discredit a worthy adversary by tarnishing them with lables by way of lies that this or that person said or believes this or that when they have not given any reason for you to make those claims….Nice try idiot), with the exception of #4 and I posted the FEMA finding in their “Building Performance Report” where they themselves document that. Controlled Demolitions make that claim. My Turney states this….and many videos where firemen, work crews etc discuss it. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com is where you can find that all. Instead, you go there and bring back a jpeg picture of the tower being built with cranes and tried to make some point with that.
You are a complete idiot AlphaOmega
August 25th, 2008 at 5:39 am
Oh, and by the way, the Windsor building (built like WTC7 in box-frame style but much higher than WTC7) never collapsed “on its own” so you make a good point when you mention they knocked it down later. Thanks for reminding people it still stood after that raging fire.
August 25th, 2008 at 5:50 am
Wow I guess Mike woke up and is on his mom’s computer! Good morning sweetheart and I see you turned on your ad-hominems to show that your not much of a debater but more likely just a masterclass! WTC7 was an assembly of………………..
TRUSSES
you moronic waste of effort! Like the WTC 1 & 2 trusses SUCK!! So what were you saying Mike I didn’t hear you that well with that dick in your mouth! Clean up your act kid a and stop being gay and dumb!
August 25th, 2008 at 5:54 am
To help people like AlphaOmega find their way out of a paper bag, I will explain this simply: The bag has 5 sides. There is a bottom and 4 sides attached to the bottom by right angles. There is no top or covering over the opposite end from the bottom. Thats the “opening” you can crawl out of AO
Here is another simple thing to think about: Last night, I “collapsed into bed” because I got tired of carrying this vertical frame of my body around all day. Funny thing, my head didn’t collapse into my chest. Nor did my chest into my belly. Nor my belly into my hips. Nor my hips into my legs. Nor my legs into my feet. AO would like you to believe that the interior vertical columns (and to some extent a good majority of exterior columns) collapsed in the manner that above. Watch the video again of the towers coming down folks. Look into what was the center of the building. There is nothing there. The building is being throw violently outward. Where are the interior columns falling inward and outward? At the point that we get to see anything, they have already been thrown into the outer perimeter of the building. Too fast for us to observe? How does that happen AO? Why are they not visible during the “collapse?”
“My head all full of stuffin’ My heart all full of pain. I would dance and be Merry Life would be ding-a-derry IF AO only had a brain—”
Hey AO, we aint in Kansas anymore
August 25th, 2008 at 6:00 am
Take your “trusses” and find them a new home
Hey, I’d love to sit here all day and stroke your hand, but real men have to go work. You keep flexing those digits at the end of your fingers….on the keyboard I mean. Thats above the desktop my friend…not below it
I’ll stop back later to see how you are doing while undergoing withdrawals from weaning yourself from Prozack, my friend
August 25th, 2008 at 6:07 am
So back to the beginning NIST (watch their video or read the report) says that the floor systems (trusses, beams, etc) failed and then 79 buckled and this resulted in a chain reaction. So once again intense fire and trusses do not mix!
August 25th, 2008 at 6:55 am
Since AlphaOmega’s ludicrous 13 point disinformation diatribe was so hilarious to read along with the rest of his body of personal attacks against “Mike”, misrepresented as constructive criticism, I shall have to make 13 replies so as to keep my thermonuclear rebuttals to his haphazard claims fit into the space allowed by comments here!
1)No planes…
Nobody in the 9/11 truth movement has ever put forward the notion that there were “no planes’ involved in the early morning scapegoat phase of the neo-Nazi’s Daniel Chapter 8 Show!
However, there were ‘no planes’ according to the ’secret’ neo-Nazi regime’s excuses put forward as outrageous, lame and idiotic explanations of why the entire air defence system of the United States was left critically disabled, dismantled and hopelessly paralyzed on the morning of September 11 2001. In this mythical accidental-conspiracy fairy tale, one is told that as many as 30 ‘non planes’ in the form of phony computer generated decoys were criminally injected (and this false data corruption maintained even long after WTC1 and the Pentagon dictatorship’s headquarters itself was allegedly hit) into NORAD ADC radar networks, critically misleading and confounding air and ground defense controllers views of “their skies” throughout the entire morning.
When FAA controllers (within 25 minutes of first takeoff) officially reported the first confirmed transponder/radio/visual witness(other pilots)/communications transcript and flight-path hijack anomaly to NORAD ADC his response was “is this real world or exercise?”, yet 2 hours later, with two more lost flights still in the air nobody at FAA, NORAD nor at any regional ATC center could identify nor separate the still being falsely imposed 25 or more ‘no planes’ false blips from the the all important 2 blips that would have easily located and pinpointed the missing unaccounted for non transponding planes!
These alleged malicious, ridiculous and outrageous false blips where being manufactured, deliberately injected and controlled by the thus alleged criminal traitor Cheney from his bunker as witnessed and reported by Norm Minetta the then Secretary of Transportation, who related that the traitor was yet STILL managing and orchestrating his false and confounding ‘military exercise’ drills even LONG AFTER it was clearly apparent that a real emergency and real attacks had taken place and where still underway!
One must ask oneself what sort of a mentally incompetent idiot would EVER so arrange any SINGLE innocent military exercise that would deliberately mislead and confound the Air Defense Command systems of his country, without having a fail safe fallback ‘Mission Scrub’ and ‘Program Abort’ trapdoor mechanism to return the system to normal, autonomous systematic ‘real world’ function in the rare but clearly possible event of a REAL CRISIS occurring coincident with the instance of the ‘exercise’??
Moreover, as above, what malicious criminal traitor moron would knowingly and carelessly even EVER be ALLOWED to, purely by fiat, arrange for no less than 5 massive, major, critically debilitating, false world, false target, false scenario, all-resource consuming FALSE MISSION “EXERCISES” to be scheduled to take place on ANY SINGLE. SAME MORNING OF ANY SINGLE, SAME DAY-EVER????
Moreover, what sort of a vicious, arrogant criminal traitor at the command level of our Air National Guard, Naval Aviation or Air Forces, RESPONSIBLE to his neighbors and family BY LAW for the air defense of his country, would ever be permitted or forgiven for standing idly by and allowing EVERY READY fighter pair of air defense interceptors in the continental US to be simultaneously banished and busied on a set of FALSE fool’s errands to the hinterlands in Alaska, leaving only 3 pairs of second tier standby fighters in hangar standby mode, YET OFF ALL THE FUELED ALERT DECKS for the actual (yet so to be critically hindered and blinded) spontaneous responsibilities and duties of defending the massive oceanic foreign ADIZ (100 mile wide air defense interception zone) of the entire continental north and southeastern seaboards and domestic airspace security?
On the morning of 9/11 with the 1 hour exception of the first allegedly ‘hijacked’ plane, the 3 other allegedly ‘hijacked’ planes flew for over 2 hours, leisurely passing over more then 38 Air Defense Command, Naval and Air National Guard airbases! http://www.angelfire.com/ny/syzergy/ Most curiously, none were able to launch so much as a grenade at the apparently well informed Florida casino gambling attackers (17 of which are still alive and well)….
Moreover what sort of an ‘intelligence’ moron could EVER ALLOW such a DANGEROUS, THREATENING and INHERENTLY SUICIDAL FACT as the SIMPLE EXISTENCE of a PRE-ORDAINED, PRE-APPOINTED DATE AND TIME whereupon it could be guaranteed to any willful attacker that THE ENTIRE AIR DEFENSE COMMAND, NORAD and AIR NATIONAL GUARD structure of the North American continent would be completely down and dysfunctional AND that moreover, even FAA and ATC radar systems would also be completely scrambled and valueless to even civil authorities?
WHAT ON EARTH COULD BE A MORE DEVASTATING, DESTRUCTIVE, TRAITOROUSLY CRIMINAL AND VALUABLE SINGLE PIECE OF INTELLIGENCE THAT WOULD ALONE BE OF MORE LUCRATIVE CRIMINAL VALUE TO ANYONE WHO KNEW OF IT, ON THE WORLD”S BLACK OPS BLACK MARKET?
THE FACT THAT NO US DEFENSE SYSTEM NOR RADAR COULD SEE NOR DEFEND US FROM WHAT ALL WOULD SEE AS ‘NO PLANES’ – only possible when our air defenses had ‘no planes’ to defend US on the one. coincidentally fateful morning of Dick Cheney’s 9/11 “I want to play commander, so let’s hangout in the bunker playtime !!!”
In fact there is ALSO no evidence that the 3rd ‘horn’ of the He Goat (no plane of this celebrated fabled cave dwelling mountain goat herder from Afghanistan) that doesn’t even remotely appear to have been anything like an allegedly ‘hijacked plane’ seems to have “flown to the pleasant lands to the south and the east and struck down some of the host of the stars”! Whatever small narrow thing it was that was shorter than a lamp post and narrower than a city bus that smashed into the new wing of the Pentagon dictatorship housing the auditors who where looking for the 3 trillion dollar Blackwater financing slushfunds stolen to purchase it their private army. one must admit it was ‘no plane’.
TBA:
2)Holograms…
3)Missie Pod on 175…
4)Molten pools of steel…
5)Real planes flown out and scuttled over the Atlantic replaced by fuel tankers…
6)Shape charges…
7)Cutter charges…
8)Little steel beads from cutting torches and arc welding recovered and then explained to be part of thermite and or thermate…
9)Heat (thermal expansion) does not weaken steel…
10)Mini Nuclear Bombs were detonated below the WTC buildings and caused the molten pools and the light weight concrete floors to be pulverized (there is a downward limit on a nuke by the way)…
11)The Zionists did it…
12)The CIA did it…
13)Everyone except 911ers did it…
August 25th, 2008 at 7:31 am
Hi Philip,
The National Gypsum Company says:
“Given the very different circumstances that may exist from one fire to another, the differences between conditions in an actual fire and the laboratory conditions in which a test is conducted, and the inherent variability of ASTM fire tests, passing an ASTM fire test in a controlled laboratory setting or certifying or labeling of 5/8″ type X wallboard as acceptable for use in one?hour fire rated assemblies/systems under third party certification or labeling procedures does not mean that either a particular assembly/system incorporating 5/8″ type X wallboard or any given piece of 5/8″ type X wallboard will necessarily provide “one-hour fire protection” in an actual fire or last for an hour in a new laboratory fire test.”
So in other words there is no guarantee they are willing to make that drywall will provide 1 hour of protection in the real world or for that matter in a lab…
Fire rating systems are there for a reason and exist as both a warning and guide to determine how best to build a structure. When steel members are encased in concrete they will last the longest. The WTCs relied on coatings like asbestos. This was till 9-11 being abated.
So you want to rely on the Rube Goldberg method of 9-11 truth when the truth is that floor truss systems with spray on coatings like the 5/8 X code drywall above are no guarantee against failure.
August 25th, 2008 at 7:52 am
Oh Philip,
Yes NO PLANES is a 9-11 truth claim….
http://www.911hoax.com/Splash_Images/Splash.asp
http://www.media-criticism.com....._2004.html
http://911review.com/errors/phantom/nt_plane.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q8tA2iqaXo
See Philip, Mike says that there were clearly explosives in WTC7 and then calls me an idiot and plenty of other things far worse. He then is determined to debunk NIST and me but relies on ad-hominem. So, I then decide to sling some ad-hominems back his way but the truth is that Mike nor you are part of 9-11 truth.
9-11 Truth is that some people believe there were no planes. Still others insist in molten pools of steel under the 3 buildings in question when there is no empirical evidence of such pools. Many people believe there were explosives and then those same people are willing to concede that thermite/thermate was the actual culprit. Philip did you know that lots of people believe till even today that “mini nukes” were used to bring down the towers? Read it yourself…
http://wtcdemolition.blogspot......s-and.html
Hey if Mike is willing to talk about explosives with no EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE that they were used and he is then reliant on hearsay evidence along with you then it is easy to see that you must also believe in “mini nukes” “Missie Pods” and anything else your active imaginations can come up with to give the attack a Rube Goldberg feel!…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kvdq8cRNBM
PAX
August 25th, 2008 at 8:30 am
I don’t know if this link will work or get the “hot linking” page (I don’t get that?) but this picture talks about columns and failure rates based on exposure to fire over time…
http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/imag.....fig2-e.jpg
eventually they all fail!
August 25th, 2008 at 8:47 am
Unfortunately Alpha all the rest of your other haphazardly mentioned, completely un-illustrated, unqualified and contrived excusenik point by point responses to the many investigative questions, pieces of evidence, conspiratorial mass- delusional motive basics and tell-tale clues we have to the truths behind the Daniel Chapter 8 Show are simply to hilarious to explain to one as biased and unintuitive as you appear to be.
But one additional point here, more directly in relation to WTC7 are the civil tyrannies of the simple industrial, commercial and civil engineering facts of our modern, oft repeated and mundane architectural and mechanical engineering, building and plan inspection, certification, bonding and insuring protocols!
THE LYNCH PIN THEORY REFUTED:
The science of the most incredibly rigid, complex and confirmed webs of theoretical requirements, interrelationships and dependencies forming the monumental bedrock of irrefutable and provable sciences supporting the registered, confirmed and reconfirmed proven minimum specified implementations of assembly sum quality technologies that are the fully adaptable and repeatable hallmarks of our modern structural, materials and architectural engineering authorities and practitioners are even more than just the paragon of all certainties.
Contractors, investers, owners, insurers, workers, civil authorities, state authorities, national authorities, planners, tenants and even humble little people-thingies who have to visit and wander in the streets beneath these monstrous steel office tower monuments to commercial, regulatory, administrative, educational, public service and religious corporatism are all very, very well protected from any and most steel beams that might ever snap!
Let’s just set aside the theory that “every, exact, critical joint in a whole structure could just simultaneously fail, in order, at a predictable time and all at once, so that some, entire, even half reasonably well engineered structure could just drop from the sky, all at once, in a perfect heap on it’s own footprint.” This is just nonsense!
We see obvious historical examples where modern steel space-frame skyscrapers were somewhat haphazardly under-designed, under built and/or under-equipped to deal with real world conditions. Such building pedestal and bracing failures are always obvious and easy to detect early by even to the most casual inspector or investigator. More importantly there is always some WARNING of an impending issue because STEEL IS SPRINGY AND IT ALWAYS BENDS!!!
If some factor of a modern steel space frame building’s stability or rigidity is inferior to it’s needs it will bend, sway or resonate in a tell tale fashion in a very short time due to the real world factors of settling and the immense and complex variable mass pressures of loads and winds. Moreover it’s proven load bearing ability will never be a question and no LYNCH PIN support nor fastening nor bracing to nor from it is ever left unaddressed nor at the very least left not re-investigated shortly afterwards.
The Citibank no-corner supports below mistake, in it’s lobby pedestal and facing cross diagonal stress resistances (because of it’s base floor space footprint overhanging the airspace of the church below is the ACTUAL relevant engineering precedent for the Con Edison utility room cantilevers of the WTC7 design!
WTC7 was not a ‘central core webbed by truss supported floors against steel frame outer core’ so no pancake collapse theory could ever be applied to its demolition pattern.
Even if one suspected that the reinforced cantilever failure of the cross supports borne by column 27 at one load level were somehow, due to loads and stresses insufficient to break nor melt it, was critically responsible for the predicted ‘collapse’ of the entire structure simultaneously there is absolutely no explanation for the orderly external demolition free fall behavior of the final result which we saw but could not hear!
In the towers we hear a sequence of 25 canon boom bomb detonations as squibs erupt and the WTC2 falls to the earth before we hear a single steel falling Klang sound.
One has to agree with the author of this article that any such a LYNCH PIN failure theory in this case is ridiculous speculation that could never in the real world have produced the accurate and actual degree of demolition perfectio we all witnessed in a building farther away from WTC1 and WTC2 than any other neighboring office tower all of which suffered far worse damages, but wore only wounded.
August 25th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Mike: ‘the Windsor building (built like WTC7 in box-frame style but much higher than WTC7) never collapsed “on its own”’
Again, you look at evidence and see the exact opposite of reality. The Windsor building only remained intact in the concrete core, and below the upper technical floor (A massive concrete slab designed to redistribute the load above it in case of structural failure or bad loading. It’s basically a building stacked on top of another building.). The core section of the building was supported by large CONCRETE pillars. This core section remained standing through the fire. It was completely surrounded by a larger building section that was concrete floors held up by TRUSSES with STEEL COLUMNS around the perimeter. The truss and steel column portion of the building completely collapsed DOWN to the technical floor in the fire.
How did this happen? First of all, there was no sprinkle system. But it mainly happened because the steel beams above the 17th level technical floor were not protected by fireproofing. Most of the floors below were (the building was being retrofitted). But two floors, 9&15, were not finished being fireproofed. Perimeter steel columns on floor 15 only had to fully support the weight of floor 16 above it as the technical floor on 17 could redistribute most of the weight of the above floors to the core. Perimeter STEEL columns on floor 9 buckled on one side of the building. Luckily the columns on the other three sides were able to absorb the load. But if columns on the adjacent side had already failed, let’s say the fire raged on, or a jumbo jet hit them, the floors above could have easily came crashing down all at once.
The building went from this:
#—#
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To this:
#—#
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Click below to read more.
http://www.mace.manchester.ac......efault.htm
And before you mention that the WTC had fireproofing… Do you really think that a New Yorker named Silverstein wouldn’t pinch a few pennies here and there. You think if some fireproofing got knocked off somewhere that he’d actually fix it before the fire inspector found it?
You guys don’t believe in cheap, lazy or incompetent?
August 25th, 2008 at 9:18 am
*grumble*
I guess ascii art doesn’t stay formatted properly here.
August 25th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Sorry Philip,
You’ve invalidated yourself on several points. WTC7 used a truss floor system and the large span floors around it’s core were the ones that NIST claims failed. Once freed from the columns in the area of 79 the structure failed. NIST claims that the floor systems were first to fail as a result of FIRE.
You mention the “LYNCH PIN THEORY” and frankly that is something of your making. NIST claimed that as a result of fires caused by debris from WTC 1 & 2 that could not be contained several floor systems failed and became more and more progressive. This led to the overall failure.
I would accept their thesis long before I would accept your’s Philip. While we are at it my guess has you figured for the use of Hegelian Dialectics in your day to day. I say this because you are not being logical and analytical but instead insist on your antithesis and hope that it offsets my thesis that is not mine but my agreement with NIST’s.
Low and behold you have no actual PROOF so must like your friend rely on ad-hominems. You don’t understand that fire ratings talk about RESISTANCE to fire but don’t broadly make a given material impervious to it. So, you can’t prove explosives were used so then fall back to one of the numerous Rube Goldberg type scenarios as to “what really happened.”
Occam’s Razor slices to the simplest explanation like “fire kills!” rather than feats of fancy like, “Well the building was in blazes so me and my partners grabbed our explosives and ran into the building and fastened them to the columns that we could and then beat our feet. We then called Larry and told him it was good to pull and then he made the call and the rest is history!”
Philip, maybe you want us to believe the explosives could be exposed to all of those fires for hours and hours and not simply go off due to exposure. Surely the thermite/thermate would have burned immediately? You believe in like I said before a “Rube Goldberg” self indulgent flight of fancy that just grows and grows.
According to you everyone in NIST is “in on it” please grow up!
August 25th, 2008 at 9:29 am
The point to my last post is that really, even if due to some assumed LYNCH PIN failure, column 79 had some magical power to make a whole building disintegrate due to it’s perceived importance or some oversight of the structural engineering plans of the structure there would have to have been some gradual evidence of it’s guilt in the form of the alleged collapse.
If the structure did not bend and tilt over as is most strongly dictated by such a ridiculous assumption, it would have had to have twisted in a telltale manner at the very least for such a supposition to have any merit
August 25th, 2008 at 9:36 am
S Kahler,
Thanks now I don’t feel like I’m alone in a room full of thick headed fools. You too realize that fire is always a danger and most people are lulled into an unrealistic sense of safety in commercial buildings since they produce an illusion of imperviousness. Statistically it is safer in a sky scraper than in a fireworks manufacturing plant!
August 25th, 2008 at 10:09 am
Philip says:
The point to my last post is that really, even if due to some assumed LYNCH PIN failure, column 79 had some magical power to make a whole building disintegrate due to it’s perceived importance or some oversight of the structural engineering plans of the structure there would have to have been some gradual evidence of it’s guilt in the form of the alleged collapse.
If the structure did not bend and tilt over as is most strongly dictated by such a ridiculous assumption, it would have had to have twisted in a telltale manner at the very least for such a supposition to have any merit
Philip,
When you watch the video as we all have you can only see a fraction of what is actually happening. The penthouse was not the first clue that something bad was about to happen. There was a large kink along the entire roof line and that is indicative of big problems. NIST did not say that column 79 is the whole story here. They broke it down and it has been deemed progressive.
Fire is never good unless your cooking dinner or heating your house. You brought in the term above “magical power” along with your own assumptions. NIST didn’t say that column 79 caused anything. They stated that the fires started by the debris from the WTC1 and 2 collapses grew out of control due to a broken water main. The floors the columns etc etc….
Due to the observation of the falling penthouse it was concluded that column 79 and its kin were the first to go but before the columns could buckle the floors failed. More than that it (WTC7) didn’t disintegrate but actually fell in a heap. Fire is not magical and buildings are not impervious to it!
August 25th, 2008 at 10:36 am
In fact when the longest lasting and most sturdy of all old WTC1 tower was first bombed by the FBI back in the ’90s no less than THREE CRITICAL CORE COLUMNS seriously damaged over a height of THREE crucial underground stories and a huge monumentally hotter fireball and high temperature rubber, gasoline and diesel fires that raged below amid broken and uneffectual missing sprinklers didn’t even make the building above feel more than a thud!
It seems that through this completely new, unexplored, mysterious and magical theory of “spread load cantilevering”, that the NIST excuseniks are only now studying, even a critical set of core columns supporting and bearing all the weights and dynamic racking pressures of an entire diagonal thrust quarter (at least 20% of the aggregate thrust shifted dynamic and static load requirements of the outermost load bracing rigidities) of a vast structure above them, some mystical antigravitational power appears to allow the remaining vastly under capacity and over specified columns fastenings and rigid structural elements above to prevent themselves from disintegrating in sympathy!
Perhaps AlphaOmega, you should better amuse yourself by consoling your co-conspirators (on a FOX News Discussion – but of course, they have none!) than by foolishly attempting to convert the converted, here, away from using their common sense to see that the only job you seem to be accomplishing here is in wasting insults to keep further and even more DAMNING FACTS OF EVIDENCE from appearing on the same page as the damning article above.
PS When is your book on how HUGO CHAVEZ and VLADIMIR PUTIN financed the 1993 WTC bombing coming out?? We all need a good laugh!!!
August 25th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Agentbluescreen,
So now you want to bring up the WTC bombing? How does that factor into WTC 7 or 2 – 767s directly hitting the No & So towers and thusly causing the saddest day in American history? More than that the 93′ bombing of the WTC was unsuccessful since the bomb blew up under the Vista (Millennium) Hotel rather than the North or South WTC towers…
http://img.photobucket.com/alb.....ingmap.jpg
Your claim that, “THREE CRITICAL CORE COLUMNS seriously damaged over a height of THREE crucial underground stories…” is a lie!
August 25th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Please explain the sounds we hear ???
August 25th, 2008 at 11:23 am
Agentbluescreen wrote:
Please explain the sounds we hear ???
Why when you wrote…
“In fact when the longest lasting and most sturdy of all old WTC1 tower was first bombed by the FBI back in the ’90s no less than THREE CRITICAL CORE COLUMNS seriously damaged over a height of THREE crucial underground stories and a huge monumentally hotter fireball and high temperature rubber, gasoline and diesel fires that raged below amid broken and (SIC)uneffectual missing sprinklers didn’t even make the building above feel more than a thud!”
I read your words, “IN FACT” to mean that what you said was factual. Am I wrong about that? Your stating a FACT according to yourself and then the truth is that your fact is a LIE since the bombing of 93 never actually touched a WTC tower core column. Why go on and address your questions about NOISE when your busy dealing in LIES, PROPAGANDA and MISDIRECTION?
Beyond that if you were to look at the 93 bomb damage you would see that while severe it didn’t actually knock out 3 of the Vista (Millennium) Hotel’s columns but destroyed lots of parking garage floors, cars and the HVAC for the complex.
August 25th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
AgentBlue, what sounds of explosions are your talking about? What bombs/explosions?
August 25th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Agentbluecreen, what sounds of explosions and bombs are yo referring too. Got any video?
August 25th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
http://whatreallyhappened.com/.....ilding.wmv
Do you mean this?
August 25th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Or this?
http://whatreallyhappened.com/.....evices.wma
August 25th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
How about this?
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/bbc_evans.wmv
August 25th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Could you be referring to testimony of fire fighters etc?
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/p.....ll_01.html
August 25th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Maybe you are talking about this video that records 9 sounds of explosions?
http://whatreallyhappened.com/.....osions.wmv
August 25th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
This one is quite startling….
http://whatreallyhappened.com/.....losion.wmv
August 25th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Or this one?
http://whatreallyhappened.com/.....snbc.2.wmv
August 25th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Or this one?
http://whatreallyhappened.com/.....losion.wmv
August 25th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
I’m confused Agentbluescreen. Which one were your referring to? There are so many listed and I just brought over a couple to sowh you and ask.
Share them with your friend AlphaOmega….
August 25th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I guess this firefighter has nothing to say?
http://whatreallyhappened.com/.....d_dust.wmv
August 25th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Maybe these guys were mistaken too
http://whatreallyhappened.com/.....ehouse.wmv
August 25th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Hmmm
http://whatreallyhappened.com/.....ness.2.wmv
August 25th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Hey fireman, whats that behind you?
Oh, that is an iterior core column with a diagonal cut with some funny looking metal that looks once having been “molten”
http://whatreallyhappened.com/.....arges.html
August 25th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
I guess this guy knows nothing about his field of expertise
http://whatreallyhappened.com/.....covery.wmv
August 25th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
I’m found of this one:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/.....osions.wmv
Have a good night AlphaOmega and S Kahler.
Don’t let the sounds in the night spook you!!!!
August 25th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
AlphaOmega, S Kahler and all the other members of the Mickey Mouse Club,
The Pentagon is the most video taped building in DC; other businesses in the area had video tapes confiscated of the event, it is almost seven years and to date we have still not seen the video of the plane hitting the building. You supporters of the fairy tale must have some way of satisfying the masses whether it be FOIA or a website you always seem to have ready to support your nonsensical theories. You talk like you’re in the know. Help me out here I would really like to see it.
August 26th, 2008 at 1:01 am
Bombs and Explosions says:
“I’m found of this one:”
I’m found fo yoo two!
Could you just post all of those links in one post rather than all of the separate spam posts? Thanks!
Now regarding all of that noise and all of the statements…
How should a building collapsing sound? I know that CDs have the sounds of explosives going off like this…
http://www.break.com/index/lan.....ition.html
No blasts like that came from any of the WTCs.
The No & So Towers did not appear to implode at all since they collapsed from the top down so the argument that 1 & 2 were implosions is impossible to make on your part and there were no explosives there not even your mini nukes.
Since this is a WTC7 thread it is better not to change the subject and mix things up like you and the others like to do.
You included video of NYFD clearing the perimeter of 7 and saying there were bombs inside. The fire fighter was using psychology since people will run away from bombs but if you tell them a building is about to collapse they will stay to watch or question you further. Like rape victims screaming “FIRE” rather then “RAPE” they get more attention.
Since no explosions like this…
http://www.break.com/index/lan.....ition.html
were heard and the visual puffs of smoke were from holes in the facade made by falling debris.
1bassman9,
You asked about the Pentagon on a WTC7 thread. Since there was no true video camera trained upon this event and the existing photos come from a sequential still shot camera with a delay you are happy to jump to conclusions and develop yet another Rube Goldberg fantasy that overly complicates events and creates a false version of the event that is essentially BS on your part.
August 26th, 2008 at 8:46 am
AlphaOmega
Your Rube Goldberg mantra is starting to sound like a broken record. The pentagon is the most videotaped building in DC and they would have to have footage of the event, so stop being the disingenuous schmuck that you are.
At this stage of the game your name calling is sounding a bit juvenile. I think people like you should have to prove your theories. Square pegs don’t fit in round holes !
August 26th, 2008 at 11:53 am
1bassman9 wrote:
“AlphaOmega
Your Rube Goldberg mantra is starting to sound like a broken record. The pentagon is the most videotaped building in DC and they would have to have footage of the event, so stop being the disingenuous schmuck that you are.
At this stage of the game your name calling is sounding a bit juvenile. I think people like you should have to prove your theories. Square pegs don’t fit in round holes !”
Rube Goldberg directly addresses what 9-11 truth has become. The Pentagon at that time was NOT the most video taped building in DC since the only camera showed nadda and you should cease writing claims that are fictional or at best guesses. Now as for name calling and theories I think you should prove your theories. You claim there were explosives? Well prove it with empirical evidence. You want me to prove a negative by the way. You want me to prove there were no explosives but that is because you can’t prove there were explosives.
Your making the accusation and so created your own burden to prove and you can’t because there were no explosives. Your all the same and are not to bright!
August 26th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
AlphaOmega
Don’t put words in my mouth. I didn’t say anything about explosives. I said that video tapes were confiscated that show what hit the Pentagon not this phony time elapsed nonsense that the government released. You continue to assert a jumbo jet hit the Pentagon, conveniently the section of the Pentagon that was doing an audit for the missing $2.3 trillion dollars the Zionists stole. You and your ilk that continue to assert the laws of physics took a vacation that day and jumbo jets just happen to disintergrate defies logic. You should have the burdon of proof to
prove airplane parts,in any other ordinary crash, just vanished that day. The little pieces displayed as a remnant of a jumbo jet is absurd at best.
August 26th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
1bassman9 makes s good point.
But there was a government report out that told us what happened to Flight 77 at the Pentagon. They stated it evaporated. Wow, I watche those links posted by “Explosions and Bombs”
They are powerful. The poster stating that the noises were merely the sounds of the towers falling and that the buildings fell from the top down so they weren’t implosions. What kind of logic is this? Thats what implosions do. They fall from the top down. I don’t see the towers as implosions either though. I see them as exploding; exploding outward and then downward of course.
I would have to say that those videos really backup the claims I’ve been reading. Thanks. And post them anyway you want. They aren’t spam. That is knowledge, unlike a great deal of of the otehr stuff I’m reading here that asserts the towers and WTC7 merely fell down due to fires, planes striking them, structure being damaged etc.
Thanks
August 26th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
1bassman9,
Stop throwing up the red herrings! AO told you to PROVE IT! Now you bring up missing money. Did you look at the title of this thread??
Two Powerful Forces Should Have Made WTC 7 Tip Over
What does the Pentagon have to do with the thread except setting up your Red Herring… NOTHING
Your on the WTC7 thread you idiot and you don’t believe NIST so how did AO put words in your mouth? You believe there were explosives otherwise you would have agreed with AO
Are you stupid or are you nuts 1bassman9 or are you spreading more of your disinfo.
August 26th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
real protection. I kind of agree with you, but not totally, when you defend AlphaOmega thatt the only topic to be discussed here is WTC7. I’ve been reading everyones stuff and even AlphaOmega does it. I got confused for awhile because he wrote alot of stuff (Which I don’t agree with) about the towers on this thread.
August 26th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
bye, I hope you guys figure it out. I did and I need no more information after watching those videos and reading what people have put forth here about something other than our governments assertions of how the buildings came down etc.
August 26th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
I had to stop back real quick because something occurred to me. Someone was addressing the poster about the video where the fireman at WTC7 was telling people to get back because there was a bomb in the building. That person was trying the explain that the fireman wasn’t telling the truth but knew that stating there was a bomb verse the building was about to collapse was a better way to get people to move on because people might stay to watch a building collapse. I would have to not buy that view. After all, those people were in the same area where the towers had come down. I think people would, without hesitation, get back after merely being told that WTC7 was going to collapse and the fireman would have no need to use scare tactics. Thats my take
August 26th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
And that picture with the metal column cut on an angle with once melted metal. That is something. I would think that things like that could have been tested to show what caused that…ya, know, what type of explosives or whatever. I read that the government had control over it though and that it went off to be recycled. Too bad. If they still have it, why doesn’t the government just test it to show it wasn’t damaged by explosives, or thermight I think they said. I read that NIST didn’t bother because they had no cause to think it did. Why not just do it to show you are on the up and up. That would be easy and show that you were taking in consideration what others have said might be a different reason for the buildings getting distroyed. This smells and I have made my mind up earlier that the government explanation is a lie. Look at all this other footage and stuff thats been posted. Guys, go watch the links posted by others here. I’m sold. Thanks Bombs and Explosions
August 26th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Real protection
I didn’t know you were part of the internet Police and that it was against the law to have disinformation specialists like AlphaOmega address any part of the most horrific event on American soil. You obviously did not see my first post where I am astounded that people still accept the fact that 3 steel frame buildings fell in their footprint from a jet fuel fire. Of course I believe those buildings were imploded by demolition.
As for you calling me stupid and nuts, those buildings were pulverized as anyones eyes can see and I believe AlphaOmega is the one who needs to prove his position.
As for you Real protection, go suck an egg!
August 26th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
1bassman9:
The issue is that this thread is about building 7 since talking about the Pentagon is a Red Herring. Now you inclusion of various ad-homens is off the charts and I suspect that you are clueless. There is no doubt that planes caused damage and fires in 3 buildings. With no way to put those fires out the buildings collapsed.
Don’t you read anything other than this sort of crap? Don’t you realize that the conspiracy you are calling for would require a cast of thousands and be so complicated that Occam’s Razor would go dull. There were no molten pools and no explosives. There were no actual blasts prior to any of the collapses. The fire department gave up on 7 but to stay in your story they would have to have been in on it too. WTC7 showed many signs of structural fatigue and was on fire.
Why not bring some hard evidence? Some professional analysis produced by a truly unbiased party? Some bomb parts? Eye witness (someone that was there) statements that prove that explosives were present? If merely 30 lbs of RDX were detonated do you know how loud that would be? Do you read about fire codes and fire ratings from any sites other than these 9-11 sites? If you did you might learn why there are fire codes.
Did you know that the engineer in charge of WTC7s construction stated that while the collapse upset him deeply that it was not unexpected due to the events? Did you know who pulled the fire/rescue people off of WTC7 and why? And if you don’t why not?
August 26th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Real Protection,
I live in Las Vegas and have seen enough buildings imploded to know one when I see one. WTC7 was not hit by any plane and would not have fallen in its footprint as it did unless it was intentially taken down. Israeli Companies were in control of WTC security and had access to those buildings 24/7. If rogue elements of an agency had access, even if over a period of months, those buildings could very well have been wired. It seems strange that the BBC knew that WTC7 was coming down 20 minutes before it did. You speak of hard evidence when you know the PTB shipped the evidence quite quickly out of the country. You only need to look at some of the post by Bombs and Explosions to hear firefighters discussing the possibility of demolition. Isn’t that enough eye witness for you or are you calling men who put their lives on the line for other Americans liars.
August 27th, 2008 at 1:16 am
The collective consciousness of the masses is not so easily swayed anymore. Even the media manipulators are having a difficult time making us believe the propaganda. It is as though we are wakening from a stupor, and staring at a tiger rushing toward us. It won’t take long before we stand up and decide to survive.
At that point, they can yell terror and wave the flag all they want to. We see behind the screen.
August 27th, 2008 at 1:37 am
1bassman9 wrote:
“”"I live in Las Vegas and have seen enough buildings imploded to know one when I see one. WTC7 was not hit by any plane and would not have fallen in its footprint as it did unless it was intentially taken down. Israeli Companies were in control of WTC security and had access to those buildings 24/7. If rogue elements of an agency had access, even if over a period of months, those buildings could very well have been wired. It seems strange that the BBC knew that WTC7 was coming down 20 minutes before it did. You speak of hard evidence when you know the PTB shipped the evidence quite quickly out of the country. You only need to look at some of the post by Bombs and Explosions to hear firefighters discussing the possibility of demolition. Isn’t that enough eye witness for you or are you calling men who put their lives on the line for other Americans liars.”"”"”
Look at that not one shred of proof!
1) Where you live is not relevant and possibly means you have never even been to NY or never have been in any of the WTCs. If you have seen so many implosions then you know that extremely loud explosions occur prior to the building falling and that didn’t happen in WTC7 or even 1 N 2.
2)You claim some sort of expert status when you say “could not have fallen in its footprint” and so then you can press charges and take those you believe responsible to justice can’t you? That is a pretty powerful statement by the way so where is your empirical evidence, your scientific proof or your thesis paper? Since I asked you for proof and you can’t show any it means all you have is a baseless allegation that is not based in science, fact or observations. I doubt you were even in NYC at the time so all you did was watch some news footage at best and then listened to these bozo heads.
3)Next you mention Israel and then say this magical word
IF & EVEN & SEEMS
That means you are simply making baseless allegations and these words you used prove my point. You are relying on an overly complicated concert of guesses, lies and both dis and mis information. If this and seems like that are at best guesses on your part or worse you are setting up a straw guy.
4)”It seems strange that the BBC knew that WTC7 was coming down 20 minutes before it did.” Here you say “it seems” and that is just you and the persons you got that from parroting back what your told to. It is not empirical evidence on your part but instead it is another allegation. From 3PM Sept 11, 2001 it was suspected and widely known that WTC7 was most likely to collapse the NYFD gave up on it (fighting/search and rescue in and around WTC7) and created a collapse zone.
5) You say, “you speak of hard evidence when you know the PTB shipped the evidence quite quickly out of the country.” In actuality it was the NYFD that decided how to deal with the scene and the NYFD pulled out of WTC7 at around 3PM do to the impending collapse of the same. The NYCFD witnessed the collapse and some said it “sounded like explosions” or “sounded like bombs” going off. That is not proof of anything just a way to describe a noise. Those saying, “get back the building is going to blow up” could have said, “get back collapse is eminent” too but still proof of nothing.
6) You wrote, “Isn’t that enough eye witness for you or are you calling men who put their lives on the line for other Americans liars.” This is a ad-hominem made by you against me. I asked you to prove that NIST is wrong with FACTUAL proof. Here you go on to call me a liar when it you that is a LIAR. You use the ad-hominem to attack my credibility but in reality I simply believe the NIST report and you have no proof advance. You are a FRAUD! Worse than that you would have me be manipulated into thinking like you by questioning my patriotism through laying the old “guilt trip” shame on you and your ilk!
August 28th, 2008 at 5:22 am
Its extremely hard to “bring hard evidence” to test any steel etc because (a) the government trucked most if not all the debris away and (b) any that is still in existence is would still be under government control and (c) even if it were tested and found conclusive that explosives/thermite/thermate etc were used, we would still have people (Like the ones that post here) who them would say: “Thats not evidence. Good evidence needs a chain of custody to prove it wasn’t tampered with or that this damage happened in the cleanup effort” The other day, someone was burning something nearby out here in the country. I couldn’t see the smoke but you could smell it. I think I could conclude, even lack of evidence, that there was a fire taking place. Thats being reasonable, by using sound reasoning. There is enough material out there to demonstrate that the towers and WTC7 came down due “exlosives” I’ve read stuff here from one poster to another “How do you know? Were you there?” Well, all the video, posted here and otherwise, showing firemen, policemen, news reporters, survivors etc stating that bombs were going off, bombs were found, sounds of explosions were heard (Even the video here where firemen were within several hundred yards and you could hear the explosion) is enough. Look, believe the NIST report, which even states that what they put out was a theory, if you want to. Remember this, they carted off the building after it came down. Pieces were lost, destroyed further in the cleanup process etc. They did not go into that fallen building and try to piece together what happened immediatly after the event. They did it long after the event, when clues etc were long gone. Its purely a guess on their part or a lie. I’m a simple man. Like the Warren Commission Report, I don’t have to accept it on face value. I don’t and like the Warren Report, it very well could be wrong. Time will tell. I get the feeling that great folks like you guys who press for answers here will also make a hige contribution. I keep hearing, “You aren’t an engineer,architect etc” posted on this thread. Well, for those who keep making claims here that they understand building designs and collapse ect, go to http://www.ae911truth.org Go debate them and their positions. Good luck.
August 28th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Evaporation,
I see so then based on what you suggest the “EVIDENCE” was tampered with and that is a crime. So, since evidence tampering was committed than why aren’t you prosecuting that case? Oh my, you don’t have any empirical evidence of evidence tampering that could be used to make such a case.
Regarding 7 there is no actual evidence that explosives were used and there is only anecdotal evidence that has been sited by numerous 9-11 idiots who watch collapse footage from Loose Change over and over in their parents basements along with YouTube videos and “writings” from noteworthy scholars like Alex Jones, Paul Watson, Phil Jayhan, etc.
By using sound reasoning the NYFD determined that the WTC7 building was lost at around 3PM and pulled back to form a collapse zone. Later on the building collapsed and if the NYFD failed to use the sound reasoning they did more NYFD fire and rescue workers would have died from the inevitable collapse.
Your distorted thinking requires that the NYFD, NIST, NYPD and numerous other governmental agencies and individuals be involved in creating and completing all of the events of 9-11. Not only is that thinking silly, foolish, idiotic, faulty, etc; your thinking is causing you to develop, author and create anecdotal evidence that spins and grows like weeds. Fire weakens and damages steel and that is all there is to it. Materials are not “fire proof” but in reality they are fire retardant for a period of time at best.
You will never be able to admit you and your 9-11 friends are wrong but you are not on the side of TRUTH here and will loose yourself in what some guy here coined as a “Rube Goldberg Distortion of Reality” stories, lies, mis characterized and attributed statements, paranoid behavior and anecdotal evidence will lead to no peace for you.
Think about it! Your accusing the NYFD, NYPD, NIST, FAA, FBI, CIA, Etc. of ALL being IN ON IT! You will also accuse me and anyone that does not agree with you of being “In On It!” The only people not in on it are those that agree with you and your Explosives, Nukes, Pods, Lasers or any other 9-11 “Un-Truth claims that have been flying around since 9-11.
It is not that 9-11 is or isn’t an inside job! What matters is that you are using anecdotal evidence and mass conspiracy allegations to accuse literally tens of thousands of Americans as “In On It!” The reason more and more people are calling 9-11 “Truthers” out on all of their stupendous claims is that we can see that your out of your collective, paranoid minds.
Grow UP
August 29th, 2008 at 5:10 am
Colt45, GET REAL
Circumstantial Evidence has been used to convict and “beyond a reasonable doubt” means just that. Wakeup
August 29th, 2008 at 5:13 am
I get it now,
Fire caused “thermal expansion” of the steel in WTC7 and it caused the steel to “sag” and buckle away from the interior and exterior columns in the towers. Nah Nah…Nah…Nahh
August 29th, 2008 at 5:18 am
Whats this column look like? Why does it look the way it does?
In a murder trial, pictures of a dead body are good enough to prove the person is dead, along with testimony from police/Medical Examiner etc. This picture speaks abdundantly. Hey, couple that with all those folks saying bombs were found (remember that? they said “bombs” and “secondary devices) as well as the 9 explosions (Sorry, that wasn;t when the towers floors were pancaking because the towers were still standing) and I think we get a pretty darn good picture of the events that day. Moron!
August 29th, 2008 at 5:18 am
Whats this column look like? Why does it look the way it does?
In a murder trial, pictures of a dead body are good enough to prove the person is dead, along with testimony from police/Medical Examiner etc. This picture speaks abdundantly. Hey, couple that with all those folks saying bombs were found (remember that? they said “bombs” and “secondary devices) as well as the 9 explosions (Sorry, that wasn;t when the towers floors were pancaking because the towers were still standing) and I think we get a pretty darn good picture of the events that day. Moron!
http://whatreallyhappened.com/.....arges.html
August 29th, 2008 at 5:26 am
Anyone?
Why does the column behind the firemen have a diagnonal cut and why is there that steel (once molten but now hardened again) on the outside and inside of the column? Anyone? Here we go, now you goofs will say this is photoshop. Oh, you lovers of the NIST/government stories.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:27 am
Anyone?
Why does the column behind the firemen have a diagnonal cut and why is there steel (once molten but now hardened again) on the outside and inside of the column? Anyone? Here we go, now you goofs will say this is photoshop. Oh, you lovers of the NIST/government stories.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:29 am
There was this guy who took his colt45 and sot himself in the head. He didn’t need to hear the gunshot of feel the pain of the bullet to know that if he pulled the trigger on this loaded gun, he would most likely be dead. A little logic here
August 31st, 2008 at 5:56 pm
http://whatreallyhappened.com/.....harges.wmv
September 5th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Evaporation: (diagonal cut steel beam)
I agree that it appears to have been cut, but how do you know that the beam wasn’t cut AFTER the collapse as part of the clean-up of the debris? Logically speaking, steel beams don’t fit so well onto trucks after they’ve been bent up like pretzels.